Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 82
  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by 9W9W View Post
    If stock, per Trek, it's a Bontrager Race Lite, VR. Very little specs on website, but according to weighweenies around a 85cm reach.
    All of the specs are available on the website... kind of hidden but they're there.

    Click "weight & specs" under the price

    Race Lite VR
    440mm width
    140mm drop
    104mm reach

  2. #27
    Neophyte
    Reputation: jetdog9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,672
    Could be a typo on Trek's part, what does it actually say on your bar? I think for Bontrager bar it should say near the middle somewhere, where stem connects... I'd double-check on the bar itself, b/c most places on web seem to indicate 85 mm reach for that model...

  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    693
    Quote Originally Posted by 9W9W View Post
    My brain can't understand how the top of the bar will be in the same point in space if the distance to it from the steerer tube is different. I think you meant to say on the hoods. Because the reach to the bar will most certainly not be the same. I recently purchased Easton's EC90SL3 bar which has a shorter reach than my previous bar by about a cm (70 or 74, can't remember). I also went up a stem size. I am now much more comfortable on the bar top, and the shorter reach ensured the reach to the hoods remained the same (with minor positioning tweaks)

    Also, I believe handling will not be the same. Steering inputs pivot around a diameter that is directly related to the length of the stem, not overall reach and therefore it's the distance from the steerer to the bar that matters and not the overall ditance to the hoods. The idea behind ZIPP's Service Course SL short reach bars (which replaced the still sought after [SSR]SuperShortReach model) was to allow bike fitters to put clients who needed an overall shorter reach on stems which would not compromise handling characteristics (read: longest possible stem given constraints). The idea here is to not shorten stem length beyond what was intended as not to alter handling characteristics.
    I think that handling will be the same if the hoods are the same distance from the steerer tube. So a shorter stem and long reach bars would be very similar to a long stem and short reach bars. (But the drops would be located at a different distance, and short reach bars would likely have higher drops too). I'm mostly ignoring the tops position, since it's more for climbing or easy riding.

    The popularity of short reach bars is partly due to the shallow drops. And it all looks better with a normal stem and short reach instead of a very short stem and long reach bars.
    Last edited by rm -rf; 01-19-2016 at 07:17 PM.

  4. #29
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    693
    85mm vs 104 mm reach

    If I had to guess, it seems that most bikes come with shorter reach now. The 104 mm seems unusual.

    104 mm is about 4 1/8 inch.
    85 mm is about 3 1/8.

    So, if the bar doesn't have the reach printed on it, you can put your thumb on a ruler at 3 1/8 inch, and hold it up to the side of the bars. You should be able to see if it's close or is way short. Hard to measure exactly, but the inch difference is a lot.

    It's often not exactly the center of the farthest point on the curve compared to the center of the stem clamp, but more of a theoretical horizontal orientation of the bars. And many riders rotate the bars upward from this.

    An illustration from the Zipp link in the comment above. IF the left side bar was horizontal on top instead of at the bar ends, it would measure considerably longer.

    It is interesting how the orientation of the bars can affect the hood reach distance, and that also depends on how sharp the curve is where the hoods attach.
    Last edited by rm -rf; 01-19-2016 at 07:31 PM.

  5. #30
    Bianchi-Campagnolo
    Reputation: kbwh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,857
    ^Sorry for writing "tops" while meaning "hoods" in my previous post. I made a fine mess of it. Thanks for the corrections.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  6. #31
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,347
    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
    I think that handling will be the same if the hoods are the same distance from the steerer tube.
    Yes. If your hands are in the same position the handling will be the same. It doesn't matter how your hands are in that position.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post

    So a shorter stem and long reach bars would be very similar to a long stem and short reach bars. (But the drops would be located at a different distance,
    The drops will be the same distance from the rider as well. Only the tops will be different. They will be farther out with the long stem+short reach bars. The reach to the hoods and drops will be the same (or close, given that bar reach does not change in exact increments of 10mm, stem length is not exact, stems are often at a slight angle, etc etc).


    I prefer short reach small drop bars. I set them up so my position in the drops is the same as with the larger reach and drop bars. My position on the hoods is lower, and on the tops is both lower and longer. So I'm a little bit more aero in those positions. The smaller reach and drop bars makes all three positions more similar.

  7. #32
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: 9W9W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,626
    Quote Originally Posted by kbwh View Post
    ^Sorry for writing "tops" while meaning "hoods" in my previous post. I made a fine mess of it. Thanks for the corrections.
    thanks for giving me a chance to be an anal roadie. I now feel like part of the fam.

  8. #33
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
    85mm vs 104 mm reach

    If I had to guess, it seems that most bikes come with shorter reach now. The 104 mm seems unusual.

    104 mm is about 4 1/8 inch.
    85 mm is about 3 1/8.

    So, if the bar doesn't have the reach printed on it, you can put your thumb on a ruler at 3 1/8 inch, and hold it up to the side of the bars. You should be able to see if it's close or is way short. Hard to measure exactly, but the inch difference is a lot.

    It's often not exactly the center of the farthest point on the curve compared to the center of the stem clamp, but more of a theoretical horizontal orientation of the bars. And many riders rotate the bars upward from this.

    An illustration from the Zipp link in the comment above. IF the left side bar was horizontal on top instead of at the bar ends, it would measure considerably longer.

    It is interesting how the orientation of the bars can affect the hood reach distance, and that also depends on how sharp the curve is where the hoods attach.
    Oh wow... just measured and it is about 85mm

    The only print on the bar itself I can see is width and clamp diameter. Should it be printed somewhere underneath the stem?

  9. #34
    Moderator
    Reputation: namaSSte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    226
    Apologies if I missed this but I don't see much mention of ramp in the discussion. I spend a fair amount of time on the hoods too (although its sounds like I utilize the drops and tops much more than you). In any case, I ride a compact bar by preference but find that even with a compact, the ramp is very important to feeling comfortable on the hoods. I prefer very little ramp so I have a very flat transition to the hoods. Obviously, others will prefer something different. Just be sure you factor that into the choice as well.

  10. #35
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: JCavilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    14,660
    Quote Originally Posted by 9W9W View Post
    Actually, to snatch victory away from you, my "." key was stuck and I missed a period between the eight and five.
    This then prompts a question: Why would you express it as 8.5cm rather than 85mm like everyone else? (No need to answer). It's .085 metre by any name.
    "None of us knows for sure what's out there; that's why we keep looking. Keep your faith; travel hopefully. The universe will surprise you, constantly." The 13th Doctor.

  11. #36
    Bianchi-Campagnolo
    Reputation: kbwh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,857
    ^Drop shape matters, as do "flare".
    I've tried three compact bars, with Campagnolo 3rd gen levers:
    1. FSA. Very nice and shallow drop, with lots of space for wide hands. Nice flare, not too much, maybe 1 cm.
    2. Deda (RHM): Roomy drops again. No flare. Almost as nice as the FSA.
    3. 3T Ergonova: Very little space in the drops for wide hands, only one position there. 2 cm flare is too much in my opinion. But many riders like them.
    Last edited by kbwh; 01-20-2016 at 12:12 PM.
    They do anything just to win a salami in ridiculous races. I take my gear out of the car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. It was the illest of times, it was the dopest of times. And we looked damn good. Actually the autobus broke down somewhere on the Mortirolo.

  12. #37
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: JCavilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    14,660
    Quote Originally Posted by namaSSte View Post
    Apologies if I missed this but I don't see much mention of ramp in the discussion. I spend a fair amount of time on the hoods too (although its sounds like I utilize the drops and tops much more than you). In any case, I ride a compact bar by preference but find that even with a compact, the ramp is very important to feeling comfortable on the hoods. I prefer very little ramp so I have a very flat transition to the hoods. Obviously, others will prefer something different. Just be sure you factor that into the choice as well.
    That, of course, is a function not just of bar shape, but of where you place the levers, and which levers they are. The interaction among bar shape, lever design and lever placement is complex, and if you're fussy you can spend a lot of time fiddling with it to get it feeling just right (NTTAWWT).
    "None of us knows for sure what's out there; that's why we keep looking. Keep your faith; travel hopefully. The universe will surprise you, constantly." The 13th Doctor.

  13. #38
    Neophyte
    Reputation: jetdog9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,672
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisthebeave View Post
    Oh wow... just measured and it is about 85mm

    The only print on the bar itself I can see is width and clamp diameter. Should it be printed somewhere underneath the stem?
    In post of the pics I see of Trek's bars, the width/diameter is in a ring around the bar on one side of the stem, and the reach/drop are in the same place on the other side of the stem. Could it be under some bar tape or a sensor mount? Anyway, sounding like it's 85, so if you want to get that bar and have it go down to 79 it shouldn't be as drastic as you originally thought.

  14. #39
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    132
    Pulling this up from 2016! Some might comment "old thread!", but if I started a new one, then some would write "use the search button".

    The OP had the exact same situation as me as far as wanting the hoods closer. But I have a couple of questions that are new:

    1. Is getting bars with shorter reach different than getting a shorter stem? There's a triangle effect between your steer tube and your hand-placement on the hoods, and I'm not smart enough to figure out if 10mm closer hoods would speed up the steering as much as a 10mm shorter stem. (A shorter Uno 7 stem is only $25. But I already put a 10mm shorter stem on my Emonda, and if feels like it steers pretty quick. So thinking of bars that can get hoods closer to me in case it wouldn't quicken the steering so much.)

    2. This bar was released after this thread stated. Zipp SL70 Speed Weoponry with only 70mm reach. https://www.zipp.com/bars/sl-70-ergo/#
    Any thoughts or reviews? Wouldn't mind a little chatter-absorption too vs. my OEM Bontrager VR-C Elite aluminum bar that has 85mm reach. I read a previous review that was pretty favorable of the Zipp Contour SL SS, and this bar apparently replaces that one.

    Again, if it quickens steering the same as a shorter stem, then I'll just get a shorter stem. I did try riding with my hands resting at the backs of the hoods, like 10 or 20mm back, in order to test what bars with shorter reach to the hoods might feel like. I didn't notice steering being faster. But I didn't like riding that way only because I couldn't reach the brake levers like that.

  15. #40
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,907
    Are you track racing? I doubt it would make any difference that u could tell. If there was any difference, it is probably more due to change in wt balance than anything else.
    BANNED

  16. #41
    'brifter' is a lame word.
    Reputation: cxwrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspeed View Post
    Pulling this up from 2016! Some might comment "old thread!", but if I started a new one, then some would write "use the search button".

    The OP had the exact same situation as me as far as wanting the hoods closer. But I have a couple of questions that are new:

    1. Is getting bars with shorter reach different than getting a shorter stem? There's a triangle effect between your steer tube and your hand-placement on the hoods, and I'm not smart enough to figure out if 10mm closer hoods would speed up the steering as much as a 10mm shorter stem. (A shorter Uno 7 stem is only $25. But I already put a 10mm shorter stem on my Emonda, and if feels like it steers pretty quick. So thinking of bars that can get hoods closer to me in case it wouldn't quicken the steering so much.)

    2. This bar was released after this thread stated. Zipp SL70 Speed Weoponry with only 70mm reach. https://www.zipp.com/bars/sl-70-ergo/#
    Any thoughts or reviews? Wouldn't mind a little chatter-absorption too vs. my OEM Bontrager VR-C Elite aluminum bar that has 85mm reach. I read a previous review that was pretty favorable of the Zipp Contour SL SS, and this bar apparently replaces that one.

    Again, if it quickens steering the same as a shorter stem, then I'll just get a shorter stem. I did try riding with my hands resting at the backs of the hoods, like 10 or 20mm back, in order to test what bars with shorter reach to the hoods might feel like. I didn't notice steering being faster. But I didn't like riding that way only because I couldn't reach the brake levers like that.
    1) Yes. There is a difference when you're riding on the tops. You could have a 100mm stem and a bar w/ 100mm reach, that would put you 200mm from the center of the steerer...OR you could have a bar w/ 80mm reach and a 120mm stem. Same 200mm when on the hoods, but a 20mm difference when on the tops.
    2) You'd probably notice more difference if you used thick bar tape.

    We've gone round and round about shorter/longer stems and the myth that they change the way a bike 'handles'. A shorter stem does NOT make a bike steer quicker. A longer stem does not make a bike more stable. A shorter stem will reduce the 'tiller' effect that you might notice w/ a long stem but the way a bike steers is determined by headtube angle and fork offset. The resulting trail measurement is the determining factor in how the bike handles. That's why you didn't notice the bike steer any faster. It couldn't unless you changed the headtube angle or the fork offset.

    (Flame suit on)
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  17. #42
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    1) Yes. There is a difference when you're riding on the tops. You could have a 100mm stem and a bar w/ 100mm reach, that would put you 200mm from the center of the steerer...OR you could have a bar w/ 80mm reach and a 120mm stem. Same 200mm when on the hoods, but a 20mm difference when on the tops.
    2) You'd probably notice more difference if you used thick bar tape.

    We've gone round and round about shorter/longer stems and the myth that they change the way a bike 'handles'. A shorter stem does NOT make a bike steer quicker. A longer stem does not make a bike more stable. A shorter stem will reduce the 'tiller' effect that you might notice w/ a long stem but the way a bike steers is determined by headtube angle and fork offset. The resulting trail measurement is the determining factor in how the bike handles. That's why you didn't notice the bike steer any faster. It couldn't unless you changed the headtube angle or the fork offset.

    (Flame suit on)
    Why do people keep bringing up the tops? Neither I or the OP asked about tops. I'm asking about riding on the hoods. Anyone can add or subtract stem and reach lengths.

    All else being constant, I feel like a shorter stem should make it steer faster. For a longer stem, any degree of steering will require the bars to sweep a bigger arc around the head tube axis. So it's easier to make smaller steering adjustments.

  18. #43
    'brifter' is a lame word.
    Reputation: cxwrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspeed View Post
    Why do people keep bringing up the tops? Neither I or the OP asked about tops. I'm asking about riding on the hoods. Anyone can add or subtract stem and reach lengths.

    All else being constant, I feel like a shorter stem should make it steer faster. For a longer stem, any degree of steering will require the bars to sweep a bigger arc around the head tube axis. So it's easier to make smaller steering adjustments.
    The main thing you're missing is that you don't make a bicycle go around a turn soley by steering it w/ your hands on the bars. You initiate the turn w/ a slight push on the bars in the opposite direction you want to turn, the rest is controlled by lean. A bicycle isn't steered through a corner like a car w/ a steering wheel. It's a combination of lean angle, weigh distribution and pressure on the bars.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  19. #44
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    25,768
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspeed View Post
    All else being constant, I feel like a shorter stem should make it steer faster. For a longer stem, any degree of steering will require the bars to sweep a bigger arc around the head tube axis. So it's easier to make smaller steering adjustments.
    Yes, CX is right. Rider "steers" mainly to keep the front wheel in line when adjusting direction. Still, a longer steering lever gives the bike a slightly cushier feel controlling the front wheel, not that rider uses it differently.

    And yes, 73-71 degree head tube angles and increased trail, and wheel base, not stem lengths, are the main determinants of steering, or maybe we should say cornering response, as CX points out.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 01-14-2019 at 08:43 PM.

  20. #45
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspeed View Post
    All else being constant, I feel like a shorter stem should make it steer faster. For a longer stem, any degree of steering will require the bars to sweep a bigger arc around the head tube axis. So it's easier to make smaller steering adjustments.
    No it won't. Read this Wikipedia article on countersteer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  21. #46
    a real member's member
    Reputation: blackfrancois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    3,779
    Riding in the hoods ...

    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  22. #47
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    25,768
    Riding in the 'hood:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Riding in the hoods - does handlebar reach matter?-pict0054-1-.jpg  

  23. #48
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: MaxKatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanE View Post
    I thought this thread was going to be about riding through the black part of town and wondered wtf handlebar reach had to do with it. I realized you really meant riding ON the hoods.

    Urban Dictionary: the hood


    ...And I saw this interpretation, and the Klan interpretation, but actually had been looking to post yet a third take on it.


    How big are these hoods???? How would one get in them?

  24. #49
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    25,768
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKatt View Post
    ...And I saw this interpretation, and the Klan interpretation, but actually had been looking to post yet a third take on it.


    How big are these hoods???? How would one get in them?
    The 'hood in the picture below is Adams-Morgan, 2 miles up 16th St. from the White House in DC, extending west on the hill above DuPont Circle. Still a freewheeling 'hood with an international flavor, black, white, hispanic.

    Rider might cruise on the tops, but would want to reach the hoods quickly.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 01-15-2019 at 08:43 PM.

  25. #50
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    132
    Sorry, that wiki article was unimpressive. I think it was a university student trying to make it sound good. It read like a bunch of technical terms he was defining one after another. And everything was "model" or "simplified". Like a bike simulating a turn on a perfect surface with no rider. I challenge you to initiate a turn on an actual downhill country road, and then let go of the bars "to let the bike balance carry the turn".
    Rider continually makes steering input throughout the turn in real life. Quickness of that steering depends on the length of the lever used to twist the fork tube.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. longer reach hoods and out of the saddle riding
    By PoorCyclist in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-14-2011, 08:15 PM
  2. Longer reach to hoods on DA 7900?
    By Yangpei in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-21-2010, 08:42 PM
  3. Handlebar question: hoods drop
    By Lionel in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-29-2007, 03:33 AM
  4. high hoods = less reach?
    By Qstick333 in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-30-2007, 06:16 AM
  5. Handlebar reach ?
    By Scuzzo in forum Bikes, Frames and Forks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-13-2006, 03:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.