• 07-26-2015
    SystemShock
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    ... However, it feels like trying to keep up within a couple years of all the cycling innovations like electronic shifting, disc brakes and alike, takes more of my income than Iím willing to devote to the hobby. Iím not even factoring how cycling clothing has become so specialized and gone up in price over the years.

    I decided to get off the weight weenie and upgrade treadmill and freeze at circa 2007. If you see me, Iíll be the frozen in time Retro Grouch riding around on a decades old frames with mechanical SRAM 10-speed as long as possible.

    Sorry bike industry, Iím a consumer that has stopped trying to keep up with the industry marketing hype.
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    The marketing boys hate guys like you, i.e. guys who've figured it out.
  • 07-26-2015
    Marc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by config View Post
    Cycling is a working man's sport/hobby but it's interesting it attracts the more affluent lifestyle especially when you start shopping at LBS.

    Not many sport/hobbies out there where you can literally get started out with an $85 Dept. Store type bike (like I did, get hooked). Honestly don't even know how it's possible to make or sell a bike and make a profit at $85. However, on the other end, you can work yourself up to $3K - $5 road bikes, now obviously this is where the profit is so what type of neighborhood/market is willing or can afford to spend that much money?

    Road cycling is a lot more intimidating to get into and does not attract the younger or starting-out crowd (teens, mom's or dads) as mountain biking does so that narrows the market even more.

    To top it off, many of road cyclists own a mountain bike but definitely not true the other way around. So as you can see, road bikes appeal to a very small market which equates to a more mature, well established affluent type neighborhood. Just my thoughts.

    Dirt cheap large volume manufacturing in countries with poor working conditions and wages.

    Product gets shipped here, and the only qualification you need to be the guy assembling them at Wal-Mart or Sears is that you have 2 opposable thumbs. Seriously, most of those bikes are death traps that are improperly assembled and badly calibrated even on a good day. You'll see brakes that do no good, forks spun around backwards and handlebars installed the wrong way....you name it.
  • 07-26-2015
    BlazingPedals
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crit_boy View Post
    I lived in MI for a few years (about 15 minutes west of Lansing). Weird thing about the road system is that not too far from the main roads there are mostly dirt and gravel roads. At least in that area, I don't think a pure road bike would be the best bike to have...

    You lived 15 minutes west of Lansing for several years without knowing that there is a large road-oriented club in the area (1000 members) with an active sub-group in Grand Ledge. Eaton County, OTOH, has a dearth of paved roads. The biggest problem with roads overall is the condition. The counties have been using chip-seal as a repair method for a decade, and it can no longer 'fix' the patches.
  • 07-26-2015
    dookie44
    That doesn't sound like much of a bike shop. Did you try to talk to the owner or anyone else?
  • 07-26-2015
    Winn
    I'm one more vote for Michigan is dead. I live near our state Capitol and it is not a very big town but there are 5 dealers that seem to be doing well. We see tons of roadies on any weekend and even a 1/2 ton on winter days. I just bought a brand new bike locally for less than $1000 and it's a great bike. I had a plethora of choices to choose from all under $1500. I don't need a full carbon bike with the latest group set and will likely ride the 2 bikes I have for many years, the last bike I had I rode for 8 years and only sold it because it seemed like sacrilege to put a rack on a fine steel Colnago. Anyway the sport is far from dead sounds like it's time to move, best not to be in Michigan for the death shuddering.
  • 07-26-2015
    Hiro11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> It would be interesting to find data that shows how the cost of a road bike and accessories (e.g., apparel, wheels, groupsets, etcÖ) have increased over past few years. The last complete road bike I purchased new was an OCLV Trek 5200 equipped with 8-speed Ultegra back in 1995 for $1800.

    Totally agree. I haven't purchased a new complete bike from a bike store since 1991. However, I've spent thousands (and thousands) of dollars on bike stuff since then.

    Quote:

    However, it feels like trying to keep up within a couple years of all the cycling innovations like electronic shifting, disc brakes and alike, takes more of my income than Iím willing to devote to the hobby. Iím not even factoring how cycling clothing has become so specialized and gone up in price over the years.
    Also agree here. I'm still using 6600 Ultegra from 2005. I really can't justify replacing stuff that still works so well, even the finish is still basically perfect. After all, mechanical bike componentry hasn't really changed much for 20+ years.

    /get off of our lawns.
  • 07-27-2015
    CardsHockey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    road bikes are alive and well.

    maybe just not in Michigan....

    The roads in and around Detroit are crap. I live in Ann Arbor (30 minutes west of Detroit) and the road biking community here is HUGE with great, scenic roads west of Ann Arbor.

    To the OP, come out to Ann Arbor, or the surrounding area, as there are many bike shops with a great mix of high-end road and mtn bikes.
  • 07-27-2015
    Shuffleman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> It would be interesting to find data that shows how the cost of a road bike and accessories (e.g., apparel, wheels, groupsets, etcÖ) have increased over past few years. The last complete road bike I purchased new was an OCLV Trek 5200 equipped with 8-speed Ultegra back in 1995 for $1800. Back then, I had to pay four installments before I could take it home. In those days, I made much less money than I do now. However, it feels like trying to keep up within a couple years of all the cycling innovations like electronic shifting, disc brakes and alike, takes more of my income than Iím willing to devote to the hobby. Iím not even factoring how cycling clothing has become so specialized and gone up in price over the years.


    I decided to get off the weight weenie and upgrade treadmill and freeze at circa 2007. If you see me, Iíll be the frozen in time Retro Grouch riding around on a decades old frames with mechanical SRAM 10-speed as long as possible. Sorry bike industry, Iím a consumer that is stopped trying to keep up with the industry marketing hype.

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    I am not sure that I am reading this correctly. You are stating that road bikes have gotten more expensive in recent years but you paid $1800 for an ultegra equipped Trek in 1995. This indicates that bikes have gotten less expensive today when you factor in inflation.
    In the early 90's I hated road bikes and was heavy into mtb. I paid a lot more money for my mtb at that point than I do today. I think that I paid $750 for my shock alone back then. My Deore LX equipped bike without the fork was around $600. Thus, for around $1350 I was in my bike. I can get in a comparable hard tail for a comparable price today. I would say that pricing has actually stalled some in bikes.
    The sport is only as expensive as you make it. You do not need electronic or disc. That is purely a subjective "want", not a "need". I tend to buy a bike and get attached to it, which means that I keep it for a long time. I see no reason to upgrade after the initial purchase. That is just me though. We are all different. I still have my 26er from 1993. I did not retire it to hybrid status until earlier this year when I finally bought a 29er.
    I also do not find that most people are weight weenies. We certainly see them on this board but I can honestly say that I encounter it very infrequently in riding groups. If there are 10 people on the ride, I doubt that there is more than 1 or 2 that would actually buy new wheels just for the weight. Again, I am not saying that they are not out there but it is not that prevalent. Most people simply buy their bikes and ride them. Personally, I notice the difference in weight between my old bike and my new bike but I have no clue what either one of them weighs. Nor do I care. Weight did not factor into either purchase.
  • 07-27-2015
    mrcookie
    i rode a few years back around the Grayling area and the drivers were the worst i've ever encountered. honking if i was even a few inches left of the white line, buzzing me within a foot was the norm.
    When in Michigan i ride most often around the Detroit-west area, spend a lot of time in Hines park, which is great for riders but pretty short. Northville--Plymouth--Novi--Ann Arbor areas were good areas, drivers seemed used to riders and generally behaved as one would hope around riders.

    Driver behavior around cyclists has to be strongly correlated to the number of cyclists on the roads i would think. Haven't lived there in 15 years now, before i started riding road, so can't speak to what might be happening with shops stocking road bikes, but there used to be a bike in Hazel Park--Continental i think--that stocked road bikes.

    I would think Ann Arbor--Plymouth--Northville area would have bike shops with road bikes stocked.
  • 07-27-2015
    DaveG
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CardsHockey View Post
    The roads in and around Detroit are crap. I live in Ann Arbor (30 minutes west of Detroit) and the road biking community here is HUGE with great, scenic roads west of Ann Arbor.

    To the OP, come out to Ann Arbor, or the surrounding area, as there are many bike shops with a great mix of high-end road and mtn bikes.

    I did not realize that Detroit was even still a city. I thought we sold it to pay off some bad debts or something
  • 07-27-2015
    runningman10000
    2nd for Fraser Bike shop. Lots of selection, great staff. I didnt end up buying my bike there because of location. I live in Northern Macomb County, Mi. There are 6 bike shops (all good) within 15 miles of my house. A 30 mile paved MUT and Stony Creek Metro Park with a 6 mile paved road loop. Road cycling is certainly not dead and Michigan is a great place to live!
  • 07-27-2015
    Retro Grouch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shuffleman View Post
    I am not sure that I am reading this correctly. You are stating that road bikes have gotten more expensive in recent years but you paid $1800 for an ultegra equipped Trek in 1995. This indicates that bikes have gotten less expensive today when you factor in inflation.

    The Trek I purchased in 1995 was next to the top-of-the-line road bike, the Dura Ace equipped 5500 OCLV. A new Domane 5.9 with Ultegra is over $5100, that's a big jump, even if you consider inflation. Granted, I'm not factoring in advances in performance over 20 years. However, I can't help feeling taken advantage of by the market when it comes to my wallet.
  • 07-27-2015
    DaveG
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    The Trek I purchased in 1995 was next to the top-of-the-line road bike, the Dura Ace equipped 5500 OCLV. A new Domane 5.9 with Ultegra is over $5100, that's a big jump, even if you consider inflation. Granted, I'm not factoring in advances in performance over 20 years. However, I can't help feeling taken advantage of by the market when it comes to my wallet.

    Yea, but your 5500 didn't have an IsoSpeed Decoupler now did it?
  • 07-27-2015
    GearDaddy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shuffleman View Post
    I am not sure that I am reading this correctly. You are stating that road bikes have gotten more expensive in recent years but you paid $1800 for an ultegra equipped Trek in 1995. This indicates that bikes have gotten less expensive today when you factor in inflation.
    In the early 90's I hated road bikes and was heavy into mtb. I paid a lot more money for my mtb at that point than I do today. I think that I paid $750 for my shock alone back then. My Deore LX equipped bike without the fork was around $600. Thus, for around $1350 I was in my bike. I can get in a comparable hard tail for a comparable price today. I would say that pricing has actually stalled some in bikes.
    The sport is only as expensive as you make it. You do not need electronic or disc. That is purely a subjective "want", not a "need". I tend to buy a bike and get attached to it, which means that I keep it for a long time. I see no reason to upgrade after the initial purchase. That is just me though. We are all different. I still have my 26er from 1993. I did not retire it to hybrid status until earlier this year when I finally bought a 29er.
    I also do not find that most people are weight weenies. We certainly see them on this board but I can honestly say that I encounter it very infrequently in riding groups. If there are 10 people on the ride, I doubt that there is more than 1 or 2 that would actually buy new wheels just for the weight. Again, I am not saying that they are not out there but it is not that prevalent. Most people simply buy their bikes and ride them. Personally, I notice the difference in weight between my old bike and my new bike but I have no clue what either one of them weighs. Nor do I care. Weight did not factor into either purchase.

    No doubt there is some serious sticker-shock when I go into LBSs these days. It's pretty ridiculous to see the majority to road bikes priced at 2K or above.

    But one thing that has changed quite a bit is that there are alternative means online to find new/used road bikes and components that did not exist before. Ebay, craigslist, and the myriad of online bike resources has changed the game. Perhaps this has something to do with why the Mom & Pop LBSs have steadily disappeared, and larger chain operations have taken over. It seems the only LBS business model that works is to cater to the boutique high-end shoppers (or those that don't know where else to look).

    The last new bike I purchased was in the 90's, where I paid $1500 for a Kona Explosif MTB. Since then Ebay has been my friend, and I've purchased frames, wheels, and components and built every bike. I'm sure LBSs don't like the fact that people like me are only going to the LBS for miscellaneous accessories.
  • 07-27-2015
    Retro Grouch
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Yea, but your 5500 didn't have an IsoSpeed Decoupler now did it?

    I could have used all the cash saved to pad my shorts and get same effect :)
  • 07-27-2015
    ph0enix
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    I could have used all the cash saved to pad my shorts and get same effect :)

    Cashmois?
  • 07-27-2015
    DaveG
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ph0enix View Post
    Cashmois?

    Specialized has already trademarked the term "cashmois". You'll be hearing from their lawyers!
  • 07-27-2015
    rochrunner
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stumpjumper FSR View Post
    I used to have good luck with Fraser Bicycle, did you try them?

    That's the shop that is strictly triathlon now as far as what they carry in stock. At the prices they get for those bikes the profit margin is probably huge and I know my try friends don't care what they spend on their sport!
  • 07-27-2015
    rochrunner
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CardsHockey View Post
    The roads in and around Detroit are crap. I live in Ann Arbor (30 minutes west of Detroit) and the road biking community here is HUGE with great, scenic roads west of Ann Arbor.

    To the OP, come out to Ann Arbor, or the surrounding area, as there are many bike shops with a great mix of high-end road and mtn bikes.

    I'm actually about as far north of Detroit as you are west of it and rarely go into the city proper (although the urban biking scene there is really booming!). I've ridden the Helluva Ride and run Dexter-AA a couple times. The roads in northern Macomb County and northwards are not bad.

    Also done the Shoreline West a couple times, which is a pure roadie event. I'm buying a new bike mainly for destination rides and tours and don't expect to use it much locally (that's what the hybrid is for).
  • 07-27-2015
    Scar
    I live about 100 miles east of Sundog's Knoxville. Our metro area is rated at 580,000. There is no shortage of road bikes on our local roads and rather than dying I think they have been increasing in recent years. Just in my little neighborhood road bikes pass my house every day during the warmer seasons.

    Shops here generally stock more mountain and hybrid bikes than road bikes, but the percentage of each seems to be about the same each year. Road bikes on display aren't declining. Being located in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains means there is some great mountain biking here, which no doubt contributes to mountain bike sales. However, when you shop for a road bike you will have a good selection of brands from various shops. What is no longer surprising to my wife and I is how many $5000+ bikes we see on the rural and small community roads where we prefer to ride.

    As others have said, the bike dealer in Detroit isn't speaking for their own locals and he certainly isn't speaking for mine. Not only is road biking not dead, it isn't even sick.
  • 07-28-2015
    jeremy_s
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Well...he's kind of correct, from a certain POV.

    Roadie bikes are getting insanely expensive while wages are crap. Result is that an already small market has fewer customers due to entry cost.


    I don't think wages are crap anymore than I think bikes are insanely expensive personally. In Fort Worth we have off the top of my head 6 independent bike shops carrying Cervelo, Scott, Cannondale, Specialized, Trek, Felt, and a few others. They never seem to have an issue moving road bikes and every weekend there are hundreds of riders out on carbon fiber bling wearing skin tight clothes and dreaming of doping. Maybe in Michigan where confiscatory tax rates for businesses, collective bargaining 12 hours of pay for 1 hour of work, retirement plans that make politicians jealous, and a generally hostile economic environment flourish this is true but in free states, road bikes, Harley's, nice homes, and disposable income are still the norm.
  • 07-28-2015
    jeremy_s
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Specialized has already trademarked the term "cashmois". You'll be hearing from their lawyers!

    I will never ever stop laughing at the specialized lawyer jokes. Never.
  • 07-28-2015
    Pirx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    However, it feels like trying to keep up within a couple years of all the cycling innovations like electronic shifting, disc brakes and alike, takes more of my income than Iím willing to devote to the hobby.

    Well, let's not go overboard here, and keep in mind that both of the innovations you mention are completely unnecessary. As long as you see TdF Pros ride bikes that have neither of these, you may ask yourself why you would need them.

    Other than that, what the hell is all of that HTML crap that your post is filled with? Makes editing a response to you a nightmare. I honestly curious: What in the world are you doing to cause this kind of a mess? Your post itself appears exactly like everybody else's.
  • 07-28-2015
    DaveWC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pirx View Post
    Well, let's not go overboard here, and keep in mind that both of the innovations you mention are completely unnecessary.

    Yeah, I don't get that. Bike innovations don't force you to either upgrade or abandon the hobby. There's nothing wrong with owning a bike & keeping it for decades. Plus, it's very easy to buy a bike today that does not have either Di2 or disc brakes. The $1,800 referred to would still buy a really nice bike today. The key is that you ride, not what you ride.
  • 07-28-2015
    Blue CheeseHead
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I did not realize that Detroit was even still a city. I thought we sold it to pay off some bad debts or something

    I think we tried to give it to Ontario...they refused to take it.

    To the OP, try South Lyon Cycle. They carry Giant, Trek and Pinarello.