"running the club" or "people really suck"
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  1. #1
    Strained coccyx etc etc
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    Angry "running the club" or "people really suck"

    what does it take to direct a ride? people. got a call from a "concerned" bike club member this morning, it set me off. all complaints and criticism, no suggestions or volunteering. part of the problem, not part of the solution. i have enough to do already. we all (the club BOD) have enough to do. too much, in fact. and this year it's been tough and hectic personally, not just for myself, but for several key members of the board.

    what does it take to host a century ride? remember, typical century rides have 3+ distance options, some with different routes.

    setting up online registration
    setting up website
    responding to dozens or hundreds of emails
    responding to dozens of calls
    advertising ride
    planning routes
    driving routes
    mapping routes
    making route cues
    printing maps & cues
    designing tshirts
    ordering tshirts
    getting goodies
    stuffing goodie bags
    getting sponsorship (monetary and otherwise)
    getting volunteers (this is the worst part of the whole thing)
    laying out SAGs
    shopping for food, water, SAG stuff
    getting 2+ vanloads of SAG gear from storage to ride start
    cleaning it all
    stocking it all or parting out for SAGs
    getting it all back after the ride
    cleaning it all again
    getting it back to storage
    assigning SAG workers
    designating SAG opening/closing times
    calculating and sending needed food, water, etc to each SAG
    assigning road support & sweep
    setting up registration
    staffing registration
    running registration
    coordinating with local and county officials
    getting pins & rider numbers
    don't forget insurance...
    omg this is just the beginning of the list

    what does it take to run a club?

    the same, and then some.

    if you have criticism and complaints but are not willing to work to improve what you perceive wrong, i say you stick it in your funk & wagnalls. take charge because nobody else is willing, then the world becomes full of people who think it's your job to take care of them, hold their hands, whatever. how many times on rides i've led (with many of the same riders every week) have i been asked which way to turn at the next intersection? it's the same route you've been riding every saturday for the last year, people. just because i'm the main whipping boy for the club doesn't mean i'm any more privy to life's great secrets than Joe Blow rider. i'm just another guy trying to keep my little dingy afloat in a sea of mediocrity and indifference. i'm bailing water out as fast as i can.

    if you're going to open your mouth, use it to volunteer for something. or don't.

    "things" don't "run themselves". holy horsefeathers next year i'm washing my hands of all this and just riding my bike.
    One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

  2. #2
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    I'm sorry for your pain....

    I'm new to club riding and would like to know how you would handle this:

    I was riding last Saturday with a group of seven. There was an older couple in the group that probably was in over their head a little, but it was a "C" ride--10-13 mph for 25-30 miles.

    The leader keeps stringing the line out, then waits for the older couple to work their way back to the group. After a couple of times, I went back to guide them a little and pull for them, especially up hills. After 5 or 6 times of stringing out the line, coupled with intentionally taking roads with larger hills, she "misses" a turn and takes us out on one of the busiest road in the area. She again strings the line out, but then KEEPS ON CYCLING, effectively abandoning the two older folks on this stretch of road.

    I circled back with another guy and we road them in to the return area. The "leader" was there and said, nice ride, etc, but she could tell I was pissed. She offered some lame, half-assed apology and shuffled off, but I could tell she could give two craps what anybody else thought. This really bugs me.....any suggestions?

    Sorry for unloading on you, but I,m not sure what to do with all of this....

  3. #3
    Deliciously Ironic
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    It's OK, J

    You know, you should feel free to express those very same thoughts to the chucklehead who called you. You have nothing to lose, except your frustration. Then hang up. Don't suffer the fools, tell 'em how you feel, and if they leave - good! The worse they can do is complain about "J said this", and you know what? FRUCK EM! As Oscar Wilde said: The one thing worse than being talked about is NOT being talked about.

    You're one of my favorite posters, J, so I feel bad that you've 'had it', and I do understand. People do suck. Whine. Complain. I always like to say "That helping hand is at the end of your arm" to those people.

    As long as you still ride, J., that's all that matters. Be the bike. Be happy on the bike and in life. Be happy with the 3-4 people you do like to ride with. If there is anything I wish to everyone on this board, it is that. All the other stuff - the right bike, the right helmet, socks, cornering, blah blah blah - that's all fog.

    Courage!
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  4. #4

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    half agree

    I agree mostly. However, there may be plenty of people who could offer some great advice or constructive criticism, but who don't have the time to help much. I think it's all in the approach. I would not in an overly harsh way wholesale discourage any discussions from people trying to help, even if the help is purely advice. Your post sounds a little harsh, and if you are that way with people locally, you could turn them away from really helping permanently.

    There was a local club leader here for a high profile event that was a total jerk, in my view. While I did the ride, every year I offered to have my wife come and help. The guy treated us like crap, not responding to emails, being curt with us, and when she wanted to work the busiest rest stop, he told her no, he wanted her to sag, ignoring us telling him she HATES driving in the mountains, much less on the twistiest back roads. She has refused to help since, because he was so rude about it.

    I think you gotta put on your best happy face and tolerate the "advisors," hoping to encourage them to physically help, too. You may not get them this time, but you might get them later. With any all volunteer organization, I think this is vitally important. One brief moment can turn someone away forever.

    I sympathize, nonetheless. Must be rough.

  5. #5

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    That's why I wouldn't organize a ride. A couple of years ago I organized a bike tour for a group of friends -all good people. But getting responses from them when I needed them (e.g. I need the money to book the ferry, deposit to book a campsite, etc) was like pulling teeth. And it wasn't to do with parting them from their money either, it was sometimes when I just needed simple feedback or confirmation. As I complained to my wife, "how much effort does it take to just hit 'reply' on the email and a couple of words?" The answer was obviously quite alot.

    Being a sucker for punishment, I decided to do the same again this year, but in between the "I can't make it that weekend because I've got a wedding to go to", "I'm out of town", "can't we got to...." or some other reason, I gave up. I realized that:

    i. trying to coordinate a time or destination would never please everyone, it was impossible
    ii. it seemed like I wasn't appreciated (boo hoo, poor me -but seriously it is nice to appreciated!)
    iii. Some of the people are single -no girlfriend or kids. I have 3 kids/wife/house etc to upkeep -I just didn't have the time or inclination to carry on and yet I it seemed I was expected to do everything. Everybody wanted to go, noone came forward to volunteer to help.
    iv. bottom line was it just wasn't worth it.

    Funny thing was, everyone said how good the trip was the last time we did it, and how much they enjoyed it, even though it was a washout. But when I sent a final email saying I just didn't have the time to organize it and hinted heavily that someone else could take over with a bit more time, nobody came forward.

    Oh well... I think I understand where you are coming from -when you do something that's unpaid and other people get pleasure from it, it's always better to get helpful advice or help rather than criticism. Which reminds me, got to send a thank you email to the club for ride I went on -really nicely organized.

  6. #6
    Ethical Nihilist
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    J,

    No good deed go's unpunished. I've read your posts....you are a good guy.

    Maybe you need to take some time off from "organized" cycling and just ride solo.

    Rediscover what it's really about. Take care of J.

    mac
    Work?! -- Maynard G. Krebs

  7. #7
    hi, I'm Larry
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    You must be POed - No Haikus

    I figured you would turn the list into a long Haiku.

    Yeah people are selfish and self centered. I always get a chuckle when some arrogant brat is complaining about this or that at the races. (If you think club riders are a pain in the Arse, Racers are often egotistical and self centered to the extreme and more than willing to express their unsolicitated blockheaded opinion about anything and everything)

    It takes a lot of work for any event to be put on. Then some Prima Donna waltzes up and tells you how worthless this or that is, thinking that the 20 bucks he paid entitles him/her to make judgement on anything and everything, thinking that every one helping out should kiss his lilly white spandex clad %^&. Like the 20 bucks is making the organizers rich or something. All you can do is laugh at them.

    As a bare minimum I make it a point to thank the people who do the organizing and work after each and every race or event. I try to make at least a token effort to help gather things up and help out a little afterwards. I would encourage others to do so also. They work hard to put on the event so we can play bicycle racer or rider for a couple of hours. And at the end of the day the club barely breaks even on the deal. They are doing it for the love of the sport, not money!

  8. #8
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    Nice rant, and agree but....

    ....who are you addressing? From other posts, I know you're going through some personal trials and tribulations, and I'm sure you don't need this club ride baggage. So I understand the frustration. Sounds like you're "on the edge". (I almost got a paper cut from your MS150 post, which really showed the cynicism and frustration). But, unless the targets of your admonition happen to also be members of this forum, it seems like you're barking rather loudly up the wrong tree.

    Best wishes. (Really).
    It ain't rocket surgery. Buy everything on sale, pedal when you have too, coast when you can, and get home in one piece. Keep going forward - there is no reverse.

    OGWB

  9. #9
    Strained coccyx etc etc
    Reputation: haiku d'etat's Avatar
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    nobody specific, just trying to help leverage open a few minds. i figured if some of you guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes, here's a peek. if my post inspires just one person to go out and volunteer for a ride, then it's a success.

    this was not a message with an individual addressee.
    One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

  10. #10
    Windrider (Stubborn)
    Reputation: Len J's Avatar
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    Three things are needed in a person trying to do this job.......

    1.) Willingness

    2.) Ability to attract and motivate people to want to help out. The best people in this role, I have seen, seem to have a natural ability to get many diverse people to want to help out. I'm not sure why, but it just seems to happen. My Uncle was an organizer of many events....he always seemed to be able to get people, many people to "want" to help him. I think it's a gift, some people have it, most of us don't.

    3.) The ability to see the good side of every complaint. Nothing ever seems to deter them, they never seem to get down about it, complaints a "water off a ducks bac" to them.

    J:

    Sounds like you need a break......It's OK to realize doing it is not good for you......you learned something...move on.

    Len



    "Evil....is the complete lack of Empathy!"

    ""We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. " Aristotle

    No one is as bad as the worst thing they have done & no one is as good as the best thing they have done.........think of that when you feel like you understand someone.

  11. #11
    Strained coccyx etc etc
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    three more months 'til i get a break. then somebody else gets the hairshirt.
    One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

  12. #12

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    You are SO right!

    I hear you man! I hear your frustration, and I hear you're overwhelmed. Based on your recent posts, you've been having an incredibly stressful summer, so I totally understand your point of view.

    By reading the news, and from what I have observed about people, most are sheep, and are looking for someone to lead them by the hand. Since you are a responsible member of your community/orginization/club, and you actually use your brain, you become the shepherd. Unfortunately this is the way the world is moving (I wish it weren't, but that's a whole other post).

    By all means, take some time off from organizing, you've earned it! There's no sense in hating/being disgusted with people, it's just more energy than it's worth. My advice is to set your boundries, and reaffirm them when necessary.

    Finally, you're a little late, I already volunteered, and helped with a fundraiser last weekend, and plan on helping a good deal more with the club I just joined. Hopefully, your post will remind people that a lot of work goes into the organization of these rides, as it sure opened my eyes with the sheer volume of tasks necessary to make the ride successful. Thanks for that!

  13. #13
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    Ask Directly for Help

    You said, "getting volunteers (this is the worst part of the whole thing)".

    You need to ask people to their faces, not via newsletter or emails. Ask, and then allow the uncomfortable silence to develop, and let it persist until someone else breaks the silence. Do it in a group situation to achieve the benefit of peer pressure. Let people know what you've contributed/sacrificed for the cause and that you can no longer contribute at the level you have in the past. I'm sure their are many decent people that just need the extra encouragement... and don't feel guilty about making them feel uncomfortable with the silence. If they offer an excuse, thank them for their consideration and then ask the next person by name.

    To make it easier, a detailed task list should be developed by those familiar with the necessary tasks; it'll make volunteering easier for people and minimize subsequent questions.

    Then, there will always be the d!ckhead in the group that will expect others to solve their problems and fight their battles; to the greatest degree possble, these people should be deflected and left to figure life out for themselves.

    Good luck to you and your group.

    Jim

  14. #14
    Done
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    The Joy Of Being Small

    Your e-mail is EXACTLY why the small group that I ride with (and you know who you are) have made a conscious effort to remain fundamentally disorganized. We do one or two things as a "club" (like a quarterly trash pick up as part of the Virginia "Adopt A Road" program, Wednesday night sprint workouts in a local Park, and TT or two), but otherwise we just hang out and ride as a group on Sundays. Very informal. No dues, no "officers", cool jerseys and shorts, no problems.

    Sounds to me like you already have had your hands very full this year, on and off the bike. Once your stint as Bike Club Potentate expires, I'd let others take the reins for a while and just show up and ride.
    It's Been Fun...See You Down The Road.

  15. #15
    Deliciously Ironic
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    The key to a 'group ride' is...

    ...riding in a group. That means the leader stays with the group and vice versa. When I lead a group, it's all about keeping the group together and not about the group keeping what I *think* the pace should be. If there is an agreed-to pace (or a no-drop rule), then stick to it. If it's a balls-out hammer fest, none of the following applies!! ;)

    There are those situations where keeping the group together becomes untenable. Such as a person having a bad day, or clearly not being able to keep up (over their head). I have, in the past, been forced to pass on the leadership of the group to another willing (and someone I know) rider so that I can stay with the slowest/stuggling rider, even taking them the short route back home. No one becomes a stronger rider if they don't try the deeper water, so they should be given attention, if only that means they get home on time. When the group leader, or even a regular group person, drops back to help that rider, immediately BOTH riders receive more validation for their efforts. I guarantee you, the regular riders will appreciate this behaviour and will engender pathos for the group. For they will say to themselves that if they have a bad day, the group will be there for them.

    A group ride is underpinned by Safety and Security. If those needs are met, the group will be fine.

    Conversely, when I'm leading a group, and someone rotates through and gaps off the front, I let them go. "Let them go", I say to the group, for if they know the route, then fine. If they don't know the route, then they have to wait for the group, when the realise they don't know where they're going. Works everytime. At which point, when I roll up and they sheepishly admit they don't know the route, I sardonically utter out loud: 'the key to riding in a group is staying with the group...'. ha ha ha.

    Folks, it's all about personal responsibility, and owning up to our faults. If you can't keep up, say so, to the leader. If someone offers to stick with you, thank them profusely and stick together. If you're too strong for the group, either take a rest day and help lead the group, or take off and wish the group well.

    I say that your lame, shuffling 'ride leader' is hardly a leader and has no compassion for others. I'm not sure if this helps you 'do something', but perhaps it will help you when you lead the ride - sounds like it's time for a regime change.

    Sorry, I went on a bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by FishrCutB8
    I'm sorry for your pain....

    I'm new to club riding and would like to know how you would handle this:

    I was riding last Saturday with a group of seven. There was an older couple in the group that probably was in over their head a little, but it was a "C" ride--10-13 mph for 25-30 miles.

    The leader keeps stringing the line out, then waits for the older couple to work their way back to the group. After a couple of times, I went back to guide them a little and pull for them, especially up hills. After 5 or 6 times of stringing out the line, coupled with intentionally taking roads with larger hills, she "misses" a turn and takes us out on one of the busiest road in the area. She again strings the line out, but then KEEPS ON CYCLING, effectively abandoning the two older folks on this stretch of road.

    I circled back with another guy and we road them in to the return area. The "leader" was there and said, nice ride, etc, but she could tell I was pissed. She offered some lame, half-assed apology and shuffled off, but I could tell she could give two craps what anybody else thought. This really bugs me.....any suggestions?

    Sorry for unloading on you, but I,m not sure what to do with all of this....
    mohair_chair: And everyone knows that a menstruating woman attracts bears

    buy my old bike stuff: https://sites.google.com/site/carbonscyclingcloset/

    my playlist on Blip.fm: http://blip.fm/rollotommassi

  16. #16
    Banned forever.....or not
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    Take it easy, guy. Sounds like you need a vacation from the pain of taking care of people who can't do it for themselves. Just kick back, and let some other Joe take over. Sometimes it's nice to just ride for yourself. If your club does fine next year without you, that's great, but if they founder, it's not your fault.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  17. #17
    Domestic Drivin' E-Thug
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    Quote Originally Posted by J's Haiku Shop
    what does it take to direct a ride? people. got a call from a "concerned" bike club member this morning, it set me off. all complaints and criticism, no suggestions or volunteering. part of the problem, not part of the solution. i have enough to do already. we all (the club BOD) have enough to do. too much, in fact. and this year it's been tough and hectic personally, not just for myself, but for several key members of the board.

    what does it take to host a century ride? remember, typical century rides have 3+ distance options, some with different routes.

    setting up online registration
    setting up website
    responding to dozens or hundreds of emails
    responding to dozens of calls
    advertising ride
    planning routes
    driving routes
    mapping routes
    making route cues
    printing maps & cues
    designing tshirts
    ordering tshirts
    getting goodies
    stuffing goodie bags
    getting sponsorship (monetary and otherwise)
    getting volunteers (this is the worst part of the whole thing)
    laying out SAGs
    shopping for food, water, SAG stuff
    getting 2+ vanloads of SAG gear from storage to ride start
    cleaning it all
    stocking it all or parting out for SAGs
    getting it all back after the ride
    cleaning it all again
    getting it back to storage
    assigning SAG workers
    designating SAG opening/closing times
    calculating and sending needed food, water, etc to each SAG
    assigning road support & sweep
    setting up registration
    staffing registration
    running registration
    coordinating with local and county officials
    getting pins & rider numbers
    don't forget insurance...
    omg this is just the beginning of the list

    what does it take to run a club?

    the same, and then some.

    if you have criticism and complaints but are not willing to work to improve what you perceive wrong, i say you stick it in your funk & wagnalls. take charge because nobody else is willing, then the world becomes full of people who think it's your job to take care of them, hold their hands, whatever. how many times on rides i've led (with many of the same riders every week) have i been asked which way to turn at the next intersection? it's the same route you've been riding every saturday for the last year, people. just because i'm the main whipping boy for the club doesn't mean i'm any more privy to life's great secrets than Joe Blow rider. i'm just another guy trying to keep my little dingy afloat in a sea of mediocrity and indifference. i'm bailing water out as fast as i can.

    if you're going to open your mouth, use it to volunteer for something. or don't.

    "things" don't "run themselves". holy horsefeathers next year i'm washing my hands of all this and just riding my bike.

    I hear your pain. I manage a racing team with 50+ members and it can be a real headache at times. The key is always not to take things too seriously, especially comments from someone who is obviously oblivious to what goes on behind the scenes and could never imagine the work that goes in to such an endeavor. The best woman rider on our team this year (mind you, she's only a Cat4) starting making hints that she felt disrespected by folks on our squad. She also started suggesting that we not only pay her for her race entry fees but also for her travel to and from races and for her hotel the night before. Mind you, we have no budget whatsoever and are strictly an amateur team. This is just one example, but there are so many more. It's amazing what goes into this stuff and the different personalities involved. Scary.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J's Haiku Shop
    nobody specific, just trying to help leverage open a few minds. i figured if some of you guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes, here's a peek. if my post inspires just one person to go out and volunteer for a ride, then it's a success.

    this was not a message with an individual addressee.
    I'm new to road riding. I am not in a club or on a team yet, but I was planning to do so next season. Your post was informative. You probably made a better club member out of me. Mission accomplished!

    I hope your sense of humor is still close by.

    Thanks. Cheers.

  19. #19
    Misfit Toy
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    J**** Tapdancing C*****. You run the whole dang show? I'm curious, how many members does your club have? Maybe a word of advise to the next sucker, er ah, President would be "Tell 'em if they don't volunteer to help, it ain't gonna happen". I guess I'm fortunate in the club I belong to, we always seem to have plenty of volunteers to run various parts of the show. (BUT! You couldn't pay me to be on the board!) Granted, we have our stupid times too, like the hoo-haw over the guy who wanted to lead rides to a clothing optional beach. No biggie to me, evidently there are some that find the nekkid body offensive.

    Three more months, cross off the days with big red X's. Hang in there, blah, de blah, blah, blah.

    I expect haiku's in month four.............

    Oh -- << hug >> for volunteering so much of yourself. You are a good guy!
    It's all fun and games until someone ends up in a cone.

    Don't make me go all honey badger on your ass

  20. #20

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    Give 'em hell, J!

    Quote Originally Posted by J's Haiku Shop
    what does it take to direct a ride? people. got a call from a "concerned" bike club member this morning, it set me off. all complaints and criticism, no suggestions or volunteering. part of the problem, not part of the solution. i have enough to do already. we all (the club BOD) have enough to do. too much, in fact. and this year it's been tough and hectic personally, not just for myself, but for several key members of the board.
    J, I have an important theory that applies directly to the governance of a bicycle club:

    Cycling makes people stupid! I estimate that it costs each individual about 80 IQ points, so if you started with 120, as a club cyclist you are probably working at about 40 IQ.

    Why do I make this harsh observation? Because of this simple fact: you can take the most accomplished person (great education, rich life experience, powerful job in which they oversee many people, etc), put them in a bike club and they are rendered helpless and hapless.

    As a local bike club leader (on the Board), I often laugh at the questions and comments I receive. You should read my email! Some of my favorites, off the top of my head:

    "The ride schedule says 5:30 PM, but what time should I be there?"

    "I see the ride starts at the park, but where does it end?"

    "I know it's a century ride, but how hard is it?"

    And that's not counting the great questions you'll hear as you lead rides. Even though you give them a very accurate ride sheet, with mileage listed for each and every turn, many people will still ask repeatedly "How far do we have to go now?"

    My advice: do the best you can do, and from there be tough and consistant. One of the problems with a bike club is that, as a club leader, everybody thinks they are your boss and you have to listen to them. I've got news for you: your Senators aren't listening to you, so why should a bike club officer bend and bow to every whim?

    In the end, do what you think is best for the club and, when asked for opinion, give it out directly (but not tactlessly). Club riders will always be looking for ways to stir things up, usually in the form of "why doesn't the club do this?" The best variation of this theme is the famous "Hey, the club in Podunk, Iowa does this, so why aren't we doing the same thing?"

    Being a bike club leader has its benefits and its rewards so don't let the passive critics and the grumblers get you down. You are doing something; they are running their mouths. Keep it in perspective.

    -PV

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