Saddle Sag
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37

Thread: Saddle Sag

  1. #1
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,593

    Saddle Sag

    Most every saddle I've had before, over time, loses it's shape and starts to sag in the middle. My old Fizik Arione, for example, started out perfecty flat. Gradually over time it took up a dip in the middle where, if I took a level and rested it on the nose and rear of the saddle, there would be almost a half inch sag in the middle. This, naturally, affects bike fit to some degree, as you can't easily slide back and forth without discomfort.

    Does anyone have any tips to prevent the sagging, short of buying a new saddle every couple months?

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    233
    Carbon base saddles should not say as much as composite

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    21,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    Most every saddle I've had before, over time, loses it's shape and starts to sag in the middle. My old Fizik Arione, for example, started out perfecty flat. Gradually over time it took up a dip in the middle where, if I took a level and rested it on the nose and rear of the saddle, there would be almost a half inch sag in the middle. This, naturally, affects bike fit to some degree, as you can't easily slide back and forth without discomfort.

    Does anyone have any tips to prevent the sagging, short of buying a new saddle every couple months?
    I'm completely baffled by your experience. My previous Fizik Arione lasted 35,000 miles until a saddle rail broke. Zero sag. I weigh about 175 lb (80 kg). A modern non-leather saddle will not sag unless the plastic base has been deformed, and that won't happen without a serious applied load that damages the saddle. Any chance you have a strange seat post and are bending the saddle rails? What you describe is bizarre.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    there would be almost a half inch sag in the middle.
    Half an inch is HUGE in bicycle fit. Maybe it was a string of bad luck that you ended up with defective product more than once...?

  5. #5
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    17,179
    Very bizarre. Never had a saddle sag, not even a little. Never even heard of it happening. I can't even fathom how that's possible to sag 1/2" over ~11" in length.
    Needing a new saddle... "every couple months" Something ain't right.

    Post pictures.
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,515
    Pictures?

    To be honest I have trouble believing it. That saddle doesn't have even half inch of padding and plastic couldn't stretch that much if at all. And you would obviously noticed 'broken'. And after just a couple months?

  7. #7
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    I'm completely baffled by your experience. My previous Fizik Arione lasted 35,000 miles until a saddle rail broke. Zero sag. I weigh about 175 lb (80 kg). A modern non-leather saddle will not sag unless the plastic base has been deformed, and that won't happen without a serious applied load that damages the saddle. Any chance you have a strange seat post and are bending the saddle rails? What you describe is bizarre.
    Kerry is correct.

    I had the exact same reaction. I've ridden the same saddle for almost 30 years. Not the same single saddle -- they do wear out. But the same Selle Italia Flite that is nowadays sold as a retro '90's' version. Sagging? Never. And its not even a carbon fiber shell. After a lot of miles, the leather wears out on the sides near the back. You wear a saddle out every few months!? Something odd is going on. This happens with different models too?

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    Most every saddle I've had before, over time, loses it's shape and starts to sag in the middle. My old Fizik Arione, for example, started out perfecty flat. Gradually over time it took up a dip in the middle where, if I took a level and rested it on the nose and rear of the saddle, there would be almost a half inch sag in the middle. This, naturally, affects bike fit to some degree, as you can't easily slide back and forth without discomfort.

    Does anyone have any tips to prevent the sagging, short of buying a new saddle every couple months?
    I have never experienced this. What do you think is sagging, the saddle base? Foam getting compressed?

  9. #9
    Banned Sock Puppet
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,533
    I find this bizarre as well unless you weigh over 300lbs and ride 10,000 miles every few months. Leather saddles will sag a little with use, but can be adjusted. They do not sag a half inch however.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    Does anyone have any tips to prevent the sagging, short of buying a new saddle every couple months?
    yeah... try shoving a baloney sandwich in your shorts as a spacer.

  11. #11
    Banned Sock Puppet
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,533
    Quote Originally Posted by rudge66 View Post
    yeah... try shoving a baloney sandwich in your shorts as a spacer.
    The Rudge Method. No worse than any of your other advice.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  12. #12
    gazing from the shadows
    Reputation: QuiQuaeQuod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    27,029
    I tension my Brooks once in a while to counter sag. I have seen other saddles give up over a very long time and get flexier, but have never noticed sag that stayed when unweighted.

    Here's my guess why you might see sag when others don't on their bikes. I would guess that you are sitting further forward on the saddle (always or more often) than most.

    If you sit properly, very near the back, the pressure on the saddle is going to be pushing the nose up and the back down. That won't create sag in the middle.

    If you are more towards the middle of the saddle, the pressure will be down BETWEEN the attachment points of the rails to the saddle. That will flex the saddle itself, and over time that flex could get set in place.

    Get a brooks and tension it when needed. Get a carbon saddle and see if that lasts longer. Pay attention to your sitting position and try not to slide forward all the time. Keep getting new saddles. Four options I can see.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  13. #13
    Banned Sock Puppet
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,533
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    I tension my Brooks once in a while to counter sag. I have seen other saddles give up over a very long time and get flexier, but have never noticed sag that stayed when unweighted.

    Here's my guess why you might see sag when others don't on their bikes. I would guess that you are sitting further forward on the saddle (always or more often) than most.

    If you sit properly, very near the back, the pressure on the saddle is going to be pushing the nose up and the back down. That won't create sag in the middle.

    If you are more towards the middle of the saddle, the pressure will be down BETWEEN the attachment points of the rails to the saddle. That will flex the saddle itself, and over time that flex could get set in place.

    Get a brooks and tension it when needed. Get a carbon saddle and see if that lasts longer. Pay attention to your sitting position and try not to slide forward all the time. Keep getting new saddles. Four options I can see.
    Better yet, get a Selle Anatomica:

    https://selleanatomica.com/?_vsrefdo...EaAmGREALw_wcB

    Unlike the Brooks, it doesn't need any breaking in before it is comfortable. You will need to re-tention it a few hundred miles from new, but after that, you won't need to re-tention for thousands of miles.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,515
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    I tension my Brooks once in a while to counter sag. I have seen other saddles give up over a very long time and get flexier, but have never noticed sag that stayed when unweighted.

    Here's my guess why you might see sag when others don't on their bikes. I would guess that you are sitting further forward on the saddle (always or more often) than most.

    If you sit properly, very near the back, the pressure on the saddle is going to be pushing the nose up and the back down. That won't create sag in the middle.

    If you are more towards the middle of the saddle, the pressure will be down BETWEEN the attachment points of the rails to the saddle. That will flex the saddle itself, and over time that flex could get set in place.
    I get what you are saying but what could possibly cause a 1/2 an inch sag on a saddle that doesn't have 1/2 an inch of padding and a plastic, carbon or whatever non-stretchable shell?
    The rails getting jammed further in to the holes they are inserted in is the only possibility I can think of and one should be able to ID that by just checking if the rails are allowed to slide back out to where they were originally.

  15. #15
    xxl
    xxl is offline
    Moderator
    Reputation: xxl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    39,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Better yet, get a Selle Anatomica:

    https://selleanatomica.com/?_vsrefdo...EaAmGREALw_wcB

    Unlike the Brooks, it doesn't need any breaking in before it is comfortable. You will need to re-tention it a few hundred miles from new, but after that, you won't need to re-tention for thousands of miles.

    Not every posterior meshes well with every saddle, though.

    FWIW, I ride Brooks saddles (B-17s and a Professional), but only the wider versions of them, as my bum can't abide by the narrower ones.

    Everyone's MMV.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are over 6.2 million covid cases in the United States (as of September 6th), eight months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  16. #16
    gazing from the shadows
    Reputation: QuiQuaeQuod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    27,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I get what you are saying but what could possibly cause a 1/2 an inch sag on a saddle that doesn't have 1/2 an inch of padding and a plastic, carbon or whatever non-stretchable shell?
    Entropy.

    I can't speak to carbon since I have never wanted to torture my butt that much, but any plastic material does flex, and if you push down hard in the middle of a saddle it will flex (down, but also the sides will flex outward a bit). Anything that flexes will eventually stop returning to the original position and/or get weaker over time.

    If the OP is sitting in a way that flexes is, the saddle is being flexed every ride. And held in the flexed position for a very long time. That a plastic shell would take a set from that does not surprise me. in general.

    Never seen it, others have not either, so I the only thing I could come up with is sitting in the middle of the saddle and not at the back. That does not mean I am right, but I can't think of another thing that would do it (other than a cracked saddle shell, or some other damage, which does not seem to be the case.)
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    21,346
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Entropy.

    I can't speak to carbon since I have never wanted to torture my butt that much, but any plastic material does flex, and if you push down hard in the middle of a saddle it will flex (down, but also the sides will flex outward a bit). Anything that flexes will eventually stop returning to the original position and/or get weaker over time.

    If the OP is sitting in a way that flexes is, the saddle is being flexed every ride. And held in the flexed position for a very long time. That a plastic shell would take a set from that does not surprise me. in general.

    Never seen it, others have not either, so I the only thing I could come up with is sitting in the middle of the saddle and not at the back. That does not mean I am right, but I can't think of another thing that would do it (other than a cracked saddle shell, or some other damage, which does not seem to be the case.)
    In the case of plastics, or reinforced plastics, the concept of "take a set" doesn't really apply. Once a plastic starts to fail (has exceeded its elastic limit) it will pretty much continue to fail. The regular flexing of a plastic saddle will not cause failure in any rational time frame. No one could ride enough miles in 2 months to cause this.

  18. #18
    gazing from the shadows
    Reputation: QuiQuaeQuod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    27,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    In the case of plastics, or reinforced plastics, the concept of "take a set" doesn't really apply. Once a plastic starts to fail (has exceeded its elastic limit) it will pretty much continue to fail. The regular flexing of a plastic saddle will not cause failure in any rational time frame. No one could ride enough miles in 2 months to cause this.
    Set, start to fail, microcracks... whatever it might be I am starting with the assumption that the OP is accurate so it DID happen. Then I am trying to provide a way it could. The only thing I can think of is sitting too far forward and sagging the saddle while riding.

    An experiment could be done. Take a saddle of similar construction and weight it with 150 (or whatever, 200 might be a better static load since you won't have the sharp forces of the road in play) lbs in the middle of the saddle. It will sag. Take the weight off and check every week. (yeah, not the greatest experiment given 24/7 load, but as a proof of concept it has some value.)

    That would not get at the dynamic load put on it hitting bumps and such. Maybe going with a higher static load would work, or some active test rig that is run 2 hours a day. Not worth anyone's time to do right. But I can see how someone here might take an older saddle and try heavy weight over time to see if that makes a difference. Someone really bored.

    Given the OP said this happens with every saddle, I have to rule out material defects. Leaving what the OP is doing to the saddle. Can't see how over/undertorquing would create the problem. I can't see how ozone would do this to the plastic of the saddle without rotting the tires way faster, assuming it was stored near an ozone source. So that pretty much leaves riding.

    Never seen this happen, I don't know how it could happen in 2 months. But from what I know of this situation, I can only think of one likely cause.

    Observation or reporting error could also be in play. But assuming it is not.... you have my guess.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,073
    OP is an average size guy. Unless he put on a lot of weight since this post.

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    21,346
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Given the OP said this happens with every saddle, I have to rule out material defects. Leaving what the OP is doing to the saddle.
    And you will note that with all this input, the OP has not responded once. I guess we'll never know.

  21. #21
    gazing from the shadows
    Reputation: QuiQuaeQuod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    27,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    And you will note that with all this input, the OP has not responded once.
    Maybe the OP too busy is dealing with the medical issues that come from smashing your taint down on the middle of the saddle for every ride?

    BTW, I would put more money on the OP being inaccurate in reporting than my answer being right.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  22. #22
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,593
    Sorry for the late reply. Lost track of the thread.

    I don't understand that no one here knows what I'm talking about.

    Take your saddle, a brand new saddle. Something like the Fizike Arione. Look at it from the side and note that you can run a level from the back to the nose, it is that flat. Over time, however, if you look at the same saddle from the side you will see that it is no longer straight, but has a slight dip in the middle where you're always sitting.

    Plastic wears out and deforms. So does the padding. That's what I'm talking about. I don't know what the hell you guys are using for saddle that don't deform slightly with regular use, but I want one.

    I mean, hell, even go over to your bike now and press down on the saddle where your sitbones would be. Note how you can push on the padding and also depress the plastic frame. Now, imagine your full bodyweight. The saddle is going to sag under your weight. Over time it will lose it's shape. That's what I'm talking about here. And I'm no heavy-weight -- I'm only 140 lbs.

    To prove this fact that the saddle dips during riding, I used a app called Saddle Adjust. You place the phone on your saddle and it will give you the angle of your saddle tilt. Before my ride it was a 0.4, and after my ride it was at 0.7 ... meaning the plastic frame deforms with use, in the middle where your sitting, and as a result, the nose rises a bit, which becomes uncomfortable over the course of the ride.

    I really don't know how to explain it.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    Take your saddle, a brand new saddle. Something like the Fizike Arione. Look at it from the side and note that you can run a level from the back to the nose, it is that flat. Over time, however, if you look at the same saddle from the side you will see that it is no longer straight, but has a slight dip in the middle where you're always sitting.

    Plastic wears out and deforms. So does the padding. That's what I'm talking about. I don't know what the hell you guys are using for saddle that don't deform slightly with regular use, but I want one.
    Except 1/2 inch is not slight. It's huge in bike fit context and that's what many are wondering about. Unless that was a typo.

  24. #24
    gazing from the shadows
    Reputation: QuiQuaeQuod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    27,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    .. meaning the plastic frame deforms with use, in the middle where your sitting, ...
    I don't sit in the middle of my saddles.

    I sit very near the back edge. Where you are supposed to sit. Where the saddle is designed for you to sit.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  25. #25
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    17,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    Sorry for the late reply. Lost track of the thread.

    I don't understand that no one here knows what I'm talking about.

    Take your saddle, a brand new saddle. Something like the Fizike Arione. Look at it from the side and note that you can run a level from the back to the nose, it is that flat. Over time, however, if you look at the same saddle from the side you will see that it is no longer straight, but has a slight dip in the middle where you're always sitting.
    That's what everyone thought you were talking about. And no one can comprehend how a 1/2" is possible.

    PICTURES!

    Plastic wears out and deforms. So does the padding. That's what I'm talking about. I don't know what the hell you guys are using for saddle that don't deform slightly with regular use, but I want one.
    Never seen what you're talking about in years of use.... yet you're seeing it every couple months.
    Makes zero sense. My saddle, and every saddle I've ever owned is the exact shape as when new.

    I mean, hell, even go over to your bike now and press down on the saddle where your sitbones would be. Note how you can push on the padding and also depress the plastic frame.
    Nope. It doesn't do that. The padding depresses maybe 1/8-3/16". No friggin way can I deform the frame.




    I really don't know how to explain it.
    PICTURES!
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Arione Saddle Sag
    By sbindra in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 03:44 PM
  2. Saddle sag?
    By de.abeja in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-27-2007, 09:37 AM
  3. when should saddle be replaced due to shell sag or safety?
    By acid_rider in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-05-2006, 10:17 AM
  4. brooks saddle sag
    By jfd141 in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-04-2004, 03:31 PM
  5. what do you want at a SAG?
    By haiku d'etat in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-03-2004, 07:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.