Is the sagging popularity of ti and steel a self-fulfilling prophecy? - Page 9
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    Grant Petersen, retro-grouch extraordinaire, makes touring bikes from lightweight tubing but appears to be the only one these days to do so. .
    I'm guessing this got skipped over because of the whole TL;DR issue, but are you saying Grant makes light bikes? Ay Dios mio, what do you consider heavy?


    Oh, and Grant doesn't make anything. He specs frames from other builders. In places like China. And maybe Wisconsin.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    I'm guessing this got skipped over because of the whole TL;DR issue, but are you saying Grant makes light bikes? Ay Dios mio, what do you consider heavy?


    Oh, and Grant doesn't make anything. He specs frames from other builders. In places like China. And maybe Wisconsin.
    According to Road Bike Rider, a fully built up Atlantis weighs in at around 23-24 lbs (lighter than my '09 520, but not as light as my 1980 version). And yes, you are right - he sells bikes that he has made elsewhere, but that is nitpicking.

    My 1980 touring bike weighed 22 lbs without the racks and was made with Reynolds 531 tubing so it was only marginally heavier than racing bike of the day. I do not expect a touring bike to weigh only 18 lbs, but I would like to see one at 22 lbs again.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    All frames have the ability to fail. So if Ti fails I guess you abandon that for steel. I can see deciding that Bianchi is not a company you want to deal with but if you abandon entire swaths of the products available you could be riding bamboo before long.















    whaaa????\

    Impossible!

  4. #204
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    I should also mention that I had a 2011 Giant Defy Advanced 1 that had a cracked front fork and a cracked seatpost...both made out of CF. The fork was recalled by Giant. The recall of the fork was the same exact day I was to take delivery, but couldn't. I had to wait two months before Giant sent a new fork. The seat post was creaking and making weird noises. They checked everything. It came down to an advisory that the seat post was too long, so they cut it. Same results. Then they thought it was the post clamp. Not it. Then they checked the seat clamps. Not it. The noise persisted. Changed out the post and found a small crack in it. After having a Bianchi Infinito with a cracked rear seatstay and a Giant with CF issues, I decided to go Ti. One strike, yes, two strikes, ouch!! But not three!!

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjtogo View Post
    I should also mention that I had a 2011 Giant Defy Advanced 1 that had a cracked front fork and a cracked seatpost...both made out of CF. The fork was recalled by Giant. The recall of the fork was the same exact day I was to take delivery, but couldn't. I had to wait two months before Giant sent a new fork. The seat post was creaking and making weird noises. They checked everything. It came down to an advisory that the seat post was too long, so they cut it. Same results. Then they thought it was the post clamp. Not it. Then they checked the seat clamps. Not it. The noise persisted. Changed out the post and found a small crack in it. After having a Bianchi Infinito with a cracked rear seatstay and a Giant with CF issues, I decided to go Ti. One strike, yes, two strikes, ouch!! But not three!!
    Oh my God, how much do you weigh?

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Oh my God, how much do you weigh?
    So am I to believe that the only way that a plastic, I mean carbon, bike will fail is under a fat cyclist?
    Too old to ride plastic

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    So am I to believe that the only way that a plastic, I mean carbon, bike will fail is under a fat cyclist?
    Do you mean plastic or carbon?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Oh my God, how much do you weigh?
    I hardly think 180 lbs is overweight for a 5'9" cyclist. Giant determined the CF parts were faulty from the get-go, that's why they recalled the fork. The seatpost, it was determined, to be made 2" too long, which they thought was causing the problem. The LBS mech cut it, but the noise still kept coming back. Again, a defect in manufacturing, and nothing to do with my weight.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Do you mean plastic or carbon?
    Yeah.
    Too old to ride plastic

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Do you mean plastic or carbon?
    Crabon.

  11. #211
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    Defect of the seatpost or possibly it had been cranked down too tight at one time.

  12. #212
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    IMHO, there is nothing mystical about steel (or any other material, FWIW). There is no doubt that steel (especially modern alloys and tubing) can be used to make a nice frame, but I've heard some pretty fantastic (and ridiculous) claims made by the "steel is real" crowd over the years. Anymore, I kinda switch off when I people start throwing out ambiguous, subjective terms like "harsh" or "complaint" to justify their particular opinion of why X is better than Y.

    There is no doubt that metal is an easier medium in which to work for custom builders, especially compared to CF with all it's molds, resins, chemicals, etc.

    But, a quality, custom-made framed CrMo or Ti frame isn't nicer than a mass-produced AL or CF frame simply by virtue of the fact that it's made of steel or titanium - it's nicer because it's an hand-made, small batch artisan product.

    (BTW - first post on RBR; hi)

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjtogo View Post
    I hardly think 180 lbs is overweight for a 5'9" cyclist.
    For a climber it's obscenely fat.

    Giant determined the CF parts were faulty from the get-go, that's why they recalled the fork. The seatpost, it was determined, to be made 2" too long, which they thought was causing the problem. The LBS mech cut it, but the noise still kept coming back. Again, a defect in manufacturing, and nothing to do with my weight.
    It sounds like carbon just isn't for you.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoisonDartFrog View Post
    There is no doubt that metal is an easier medium in which to work for custom builders, especially compared to CF with all it's molds, resins, chemicals, etc
    The price of admission to the steel framebuilder club is a fraction of the cost of mold for a carbon frame component.

    The level of technical knowledge required is an even smaller fraction. High school metal shop vs CAD/CAM and FEA design.

    That's why the kids on Velocipede Salon are so scared. Go there, you can smell the fear. They can rant about the shorelines on their lugs all they want...but inside they know Taiwan can make better frames for less money. And the number of people who want a bike like Ronnie de Witte used in the 74 Giro keeps getting smaller.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insight Homewood View Post
    Defect of the seatpost or possibly it had been cranked down too tight at one time.
    Cue the guys who don't need a torque wrench because they can feel the difference between 4Nm and 5Nm.

  16. #216
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    "I hardly think 180 lbs is overweight for a 5'9" cyclist."

    I'm 5'9"... in my twenties I came in between 116 and 127 lbs and was a very good climber. Now I am 55 years old and am overweight as a cyclist at 154 lbs - and don't rocket up the climbs anymore.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    "I hardly think 180 lbs is overweight for a 5'9" cyclist."

    I'm 5'9"... in my twenties I came in between 116 and 127 lbs and was a very good climber. Now I am 55 years old and am overweight as a cyclist at 154 lbs - and don't rocket up the climbs anymore.
    I'm 5'9" and currently pushing 190# on the scale. Even when I was young, the best I've ever managed was around 160#. 170 is a healthy weight for me. I think 160-170 is about average for our height.

  18. #218
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    According to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute's website a person at 5'9" is overweight at 176 lbs.

    Compared to racing cyclists, we are overweight above 135 lbs at our height... at 118 lbs I was found to be at 4.5% bodyfat. Athletes are supposed to fall under 12%, preferably under 8%. I am afraid to have that measured these days.

  19. #219
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    Is the sagging popularity of ti and steel a self-fulfilling prophecy?

    God. I'm screwed. At 190lbs, I'm a rail! Mind you, I'm 6'7. I'll never be a climber!

  20. #220
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    I'm just shy of 275lbs.


    But it's right for my height.

  21. #221
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    Not a climber. I live in Florida. I pedal for fitness and fun. I don't race neither. Averaage rides between 20-35, with rides 50+ miles once or twice a week. At 180, I'm not all skin and bones. I used to play football, so my upper torso is larger than some skinny toothpick riders.

  22. #222
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    I ride a Ti 2010 Lynsky R230, I custom built. And, a steel 2011 Raleigh Record Ace (replaced Schwinn), I just bought from a dealer. I did have it customized with components to match my riding style. He has them on the showroom floor, selling at a great deal.
    I don't ride carbon, because it is worthless after you break it. If for some reason I should wreck a steel or Ti frame, they can be repaired fairly easily. They'll tell you they can repair carbon, but who should trust a patched up carbon frame. Not me.
    BTW, Lynsky has a lifetime warranty on their frames.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spewayafee View Post
    They'll tell you they can repair carbon, but who should trust a patched up carbon frame. Not me.
    That's your call.

    When I first got serious about racing I bought a used, patched frame and rode it like I stole it. I won field sprints in crits, descended like a bat out of hell in road races, climbed to some of the highest peaks in California (and descended with confidence), and even took it from Monterey to Pismo Beach in a single day. I learned how to bunny hop up curbs and do wheelies on that bike...all that on a patched frame and I never died, not even once.

  24. #224
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    And a bent steel frame can be very unstable at speeds. I remember when my bike was destroyed by a car in 1992, the driver's insurance agent wanted to have it repaired (as opposed to paying for a replacement). The shop mechanic explained that it would never be stable at any kind of speed after that crash. I asked him if his company wanted to assume the liability for that. They bought me a new bike.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    And a bent steel frame can be very unstable at speeds. I remember when my bike was destroyed by a car in 1992, the driver's insurance agent wanted to have it repaired (as opposed to paying for a replacement). The shop mechanic explained that it would never be stable at any kind of speed after that crash. I asked him if his company wanted to assume the liability for that. They bought me a new bike.
    Claims adjusters often make absurd arguments.

    Despite my personal risk taking and arguments here, if I negotiate with them about a carbon bike involved in an accident, I always fight for a total replacement. Possible latent defects and all that.
    Last edited by Local Hero; 12-09-2013 at 10:23 PM.

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