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  1. #1
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    Is Shimano Dead?

    Flipping through my Triathlete magazine, Bicycling Magazine, RBK Review Magazine all I really see on the road bikes are SRAM. I do see a few Shimano but dominated by SRAM. I know this may start a Shimano/Sram war like we see in MTBR, but did the 'double tap' feature really seal the deal for SRAM? What really strange though is that majority of bikes come with Shimano on them. I went to my LBS and all Shimano.

    Personally, I switched from Ultegra to SRAM Force, for no real reason. Double Tap took a bit to get use too and I do like it better, but I can't see how that would squeeze out Shimano like it appears it has. It's not like the mountain bike twist vs. trigger. It's clear there that twist is superior so I see why people use SRAM.

    Anyways, curious to others thoughts on this.

  2. #2
    Would rather be riding
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    I had to read that multiple times, to make sure my eyes weren't tricking me. I have never heard of anyone who legitimately rides off-road prefer twist over trigger shifters...

    Beyond that, Shimano is not going to die any time soon. There will always be fans that will support them. If you base a company's viability on LBS availability, one would think Campy is dead, and that's clearly not true.

  3. #3
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    I can always hope that Shimano goes away, but it isn't likely...
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  4. #4
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    I think SRAM needs a bigger profile to compete with Shimano so therefore you're more likely to see them plastered in mags. Shimano is a powerhouse and is in the market to stay like them or not.

  5. #5
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    competition a good thing

    I admire the way SRAM has quickly taken hold in the road market. I think we benefit from the additional competition. As a Campy guy, I don't want Shimano to go belly up as that would just increase prices. I think Shimano got a bit complacent after gaining so much market share. SRAM makes a good product at a solid price. I have one bike with Rival on it and 3 Campy bikes. I think Rival is the best value in road groups out there right now

  6. #6
    Mud
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    I think your question should be redirected towards Campy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG
    I admire the way SRAM has quickly taken hold in the road market. I think we benefit from the additional competition. As a Campy guy, I don't want Shimano to go belly up as that would just increase prices. I think Shimano got a bit complacent after gaining so much market share. SRAM makes a good product at a solid price. I have one bike with Rival on it and 3 Campy bikes. I think Rival is the best value in road groups out there right now
    Absolutely. Working in a bike shop, it was getting a bit depressing to see nothing but Shimano, Shimano, Shimano in the OEM market.

    As a Campy guy myself, it's been a bit disheartening to see them them all but absent from the "mass market", but I respect their decision to keep manufacturing in Europe (albeit all their aluminum fabrication now comes from their facility in Romania.) Asia is where "bike production" is and both Shimano and SRAM are right there. And, at the very least, SRAM is an American company so at least some of the money is coming back here.

    And while I think Rival is very good value, SRAM Force is stellar. From all of our suppliers, a Force group is cheaper than Ultegra and competitive with Dura Ace as to weight. Plus (with a "tip of the hat" to Mike from Bikes Direct regarding aesthetics), the latest Ultegra and Dura Ace groups are, to me (how shall I say?) "less than attractive!"
    Anyone who believes there are no stupid questions never worked in a bike shop.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisentraut
    I think SRAM needs a bigger profile to compete with Shimano so therefore you're more likely to see them plastered in mags. Shimano is a powerhouse and is in the market to stay like them or not.
    precisely

  9. #9
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    It's nice that Shimano has some actual competition, for a change. It can't but help both Shimano and SRAM.
    Nothing wrong with Campy, but if they can't get more OEM's to spec their stuff, they will be a very minor player in 10 years.
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  10. #10
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    For Shimano's sake, let's hope that SRAM doesn't get a wild hair and start looking at making fishing equipment and rowing accessories.

  11. #11
    m_s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppie58
    It's not like the mountain bike twist vs. trigger. It's clear there that twist is superior so I see why people use SRAM.
    Since SRAM is not as of yet even offering grip shifter for their latest groups, and most people who use SRAM on mountain bikes don't use gripshift anyways, this statement is rather questionable. Not to be a d***, just a clarification.

    Anyways, no, I think SRAM stepped in to fill a void in competition. I do not think Shimano is "dead" or anything close to it. A quick search couldn't find any details on percentage of bikes which come with SRAM versus Shimano, but in road bikes especially and even mountain bikes, Shimano dominates the lower end OEM sales, which are huge. I would guess it is also dominate in mid to high end OEM sales, though slightly less so. Aftermarket sales are a very small proportion of total business.

  12. #12
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    It's not like the mountain bike twist vs. trigger. It's clear there that twist is superior so I see why people use SRAM.
    Hardly anyone uses gripshifts in MTBing because in most riders' opinions they are firkcin awful. SRAM can compete with Shimano in MTBing because the 1:1 ratio they use is superior. Most SRAM MTB shifters sold are trigger shifts.
    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
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  13. #13
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    LOL.

    Grip shift is ONLY on the super-low end bikes. It is not superior. At all. It's not, not not superior. SRAM has a different shifting style, but it's two buttons you push with your thumb, as compared to Shimano's one for thumb, one for index.

    SRAM's 1:1 cable pull ratio is superior, but I detest their shifters. Shimano MTB all the way for me. On the road, I'm a lot more ambivalent... I'm emotionally more attached to Shimano, but SRAM is cheaper, lighter, and just as good, so although I do prefer Shimano, unless my sponsors make it otherwise, my next bike will be SRAM.
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  14. #14
    m_s
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    oh lonesome road for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by estone2
    LOL.

    Grip shift is ONLY on the super-low end bikes. It is not superior. At all. It's not, not not superior. SRAM has a different shifting style, but it's two buttons you push with your thumb, as compared to Shimano's one for thumb, one for index.
    just as wrong as the OP. I have an X.9 gripshifter on my mountain bike. It was the first thing I came across when my X.9 trigger broke a while ago and it works fine. I'm fairly ambivalent about shifters as long as they work.

    Anyways, gripshifter is not "ONLY on the super low-end" bikes. X.0 gripshifters are the preferred shifter for many going for the whole weight-weeinie thing as well.

  15. #15
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    Biggest reason why most run the Grip Shift (which is still avail in the 9 speed groups) is due to the weight savings. Weight weenies LOVE the Sram X0 grip shifts.
    You can't fix stupid.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    Biggest reason why most run the Grip Shift (which is still avail in the 9 speed groups) is due to the weight savings. Weight weenies LOVE the Sram X0 grip shifts.
    Also the ability to trim the FD. Also lower price, and simple mechanism, and can dump 3+ gears at a time on the rear.

    I've switched to them (being a WW) from XTR and I'm never going back. I know alot of racers who use them too.

    Most people only have experience with the cheap ones that come stock on dept. store bikes. The X9/X0/Attack twists are very nice gear.

    As to the OP, up here, depending on the bike store, I see a rough 1:1 on the Sram/Shim. stock bikes.

  17. #17
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    As long as Shimano continues to make 2300 and Sora (and the comparable Acera and Alivio), they'll continue to sell more groups.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
    For Shimano's sake, let's hope that SRAM doesn't get a wild hair and start looking at making fishing equipment and rowing accessories.

    It often throws me when I search for some Shimano stuff, seeing all that other junk come up...

  19. #19
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    yeah, the component maker who's got 75% of the market (a random guess) is dead...

  20. #20
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    I've got Dura Ace 7900 and am super content.

    Reading posts where Red works better when you sub in a Shimano part always makes me laugh

  21. #21
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    I agree that the competition between Shimano/Sram/Campy is great for cycling. I also don't think that Shimano will be going anywhere in the near or distant future. Having said that, I personally prefer the ergonomics of the the Sram shifters and brake levers. But when it comes to shifting, DA is just so butter smooth. Overall, the lower price and great performance of Sram components won me over.

  22. #22
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    Don't all those Walmart bikes equipped with low end Shimano, if so that has to be a huge chunk of their sales right there.

  23. #23
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    as a competitive mountain biker who rides sram "attack" gripshifts and a sram (truvativ noir) crankset with an otherwise full xtr drivetrain this thread is quite odd to me...

  24. #24
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    It is just that SRAM is putting more money into marketing and sponsoring in the moment.

    will this play out ? time will tell.

    here in Yurop you don't see that much SRAM around as they are not cheaper that shimano here
    Last edited by Salsa_Lover; 11-09-2010 at 01:58 AM.
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  25. #25
    huvia ja hyötyä
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    There's more than shifting to Shimano/SRAM/Campy. Brakes, Cranks, BBs, Wheels. I like Shimano cranks, and on MTB side SRAM shifting (with levers, not twisties).

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