Shimano Pro Division Pricing Scam - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Yes, I read you response. I find it curious that I can buy this stuff cheaper than you can. And even more curious why you're *****ing and moaning about it.
    I'm not the one moaning. Those like you and the OP complaining about Shimano closing off sales across continents are moaning. I'm the one cheering that they are finally trying to do something to level the playing field for US shops. But even if I were moaning, could you really blame me? For years, Shimano has sold stuff to my competitors for such low prices that they could sell it for less than I could buy it with a direct Shimano wholesale account. How is that at all fair for companies like Shimano to do? A bulk discount is one thing, but it shouldn't be so much a discount that big shops overseas can sell it for less than US shops can buy it for.

    And I realize that I am not talking to the average cyclist on these forums for the most part. Which is why I DON"T complain or moan about the fact that you can buy parts elsewhere for cheaper. Only pointing out that Shimano's closing of cross-continent sales is not a scam, and ultimately will be a good thing for US consumers and our economy, even if people don't realize it.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Yeah that's kind of BS. Two nearby bike shops about 20 miles apart. EXACT same Euro-bike is literally (and I do mean literally) and almost exactly 2X as expensive at one of the shops. Both are 100% legit, not Chinese knock-offs. And not just one model. Have seen this on several different bikes over a couple of years. Why anyone shops at the expensive shop, I have NO idea, but they've been in business for many years.
    I find it funny that you claim BS by posting BS. I seriously doubt two local shops sell the same bikes, one for 2x what they others sells it for, at least here in the US. For one, most reputable brands have MSRPs and MAPS they require of their dealers. It is possible that one shop is selling the bikes for something under MSRP, hoping to make up in volume what they lose in margin. And it is possible that the pricier shop has learned that it is better to price the bikes at a price that actually makes them money, so they may even mark them above MSRP. (Years ago when I worked at the shop, we sold Cannondale; their margins were next to nothing, so the owner would mark them up. They still sold like hotcakes since they were made in the US at the time). But, even then, I highly doubt they would be 2x. I want to see pictures from both shops, and not where one of them has last year's models for a discount. The idea that one can sell in volume and do without margin has not gone well for US shops. Think SuperGo, PricePoint, Performance Bike. They all tried to go with cheap prices and volume and look where they ended up. Yet, that higher price shop you mentioned is still around. Selling for lowest prices is not always the best thing for shops, or for consumers, especially when those shops go out of business.
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  3. #28
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    Same thing for prescription drugs
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  4. #29
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    Only pointing out that Shimano's closing of cross-continent sales is not a scam, and ultimately will be a good thing for US consumers and our economy, even if people don't realize it.
    Again, the most assnine statement I've ever heard. No one is ever going to come into your shop and buy a Shimano 9100 group. At best, it'll be a chainring or derailer that you're going to massively over charge someone while at the same time making minimal profit because of the supplier system you operate under. Yeah, raising prices is good for consumers. I wish I had access to a shop that cares so much about its customers. And this isn't a recent thing. I bought several Shimano Dura Ace 7700 groups from some place in Texas in the 1990's. Back then, it came with hubs and a worthless threaded headset.

    The angle Ribble and others were playing is that they are bike manufacturers. Ribble has branded bikes as do others. I'd assume that component manufacturers sell to manufacturers at lower prices.

    You should go hang out with the commies in PO.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Again, the most assnine statement I've ever heard. No one is ever going to come into your shop and buy a Shimano 9100 group. At best, it'll be a chainring or derailer that you're going to massively over charge someone while at the same time making minimal profit because of the supplier system you operate under. Yeah, raising prices is good for consumers. I wish I had access to a shop that cares so much about its customers. And this isn't a recent thing. I bought several Shimano Dura Ace 7700 groups from some place in Texas in the 1990's. Back then, it came with hubs and a worthless threaded headset.

    The angle Ribble and others were playing is that they are bike manufacturers. Ribble has branded bikes as do others. I'd assume that component manufacturers sell to manufacturers at lower prices.

    You should go hang out with the commies in PO.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Again, the most assnine statement I've ever heard. No one is ever going to come into your shop and buy a Shimano 9100 group. At best, it'll be a chainring or derailer that you're going to massively over charge someone while at the same time making minimal profit because of the supplier system you operate under. Yeah, raising prices is good for consumers. I wish I had access to a shop that cares so much about its customers. And this isn't a recent thing. I bought several Shimano Dura Ace 7700 groups from some place in Texas in the 1990's. Back then, it came with hubs and a worthless threaded headset.

    The angle Ribble and others were playing is that they are bike manufacturers. Ribble has branded bikes as do others. I'd assume that component manufacturers sell to manufacturers at lower prices.

    You should go hang out with the commies in PO.
    You should probably stop talking when you have no idea what you are talking about. We actually have sold several groups. In fact, I'm installing a GRX Di2 group right now that a customer purchased through us. I am able to sell such at, or at least near, MSRP because we have proven to our customers just how much we care about them.

    You obviously know nothing about retail, business, or economy. You only know your errant belief that whatever is cheapest is automatically best.

    You probably believe that the gas station selling gas at $0.02 more than the station across the street is overcharging and trying to scam motorists.

    Again, MSRP is NOT massively overcharging. Yeah, if I marked something way over MSRP, that would be overcharging. But just because others may sell it under MSRP does not mean that those who sell it at MSRP are overcharging.

    Your "drive everything down to the bottom dollar so everyone is poor " attitude is much more communist than anything I have said.

    It's not like you can't find Shimano stuff cheaper than MSRP in the US. You definitely can, and it's not hard.

    And if you really, actually, think that my selling at MSRP is overcharging, I dare you to switch paychecks with me for a year. You will be begging me to switch back after the first paycheck.
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  7. #32
    wots...uh the deal?
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    MSRP (wider world, not just one company or one industry) can be based of some real number... or not (automobiles anyone?)

    But, that is about the only difference I have with Jwiffle's perspectives. This industry has contradictions. The internet revolution changed almost everything for LBS' and regular retails stores of all sorts.

    Thanks for your insights. We don't have to all agree on this. Well, besides the current situation seems suspect

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    You should probably stop talking when you have no idea what you are talking about. We actually have sold several groups. In fact, I'm installing a GRX Di2 group right now that a customer purchased through us. I am able to sell such at, or at least near, MSRP because we have proven to our customers just how much we care about them.

    You obviously know nothing about retail, business, or economy. You only know your errant belief that whatever is cheapest is automatically best.

    You probably believe that the gas station selling gas at $0.02 more than the station across the street is overcharging and trying to scam motorists.

    Again, MSRP is NOT massively overcharging. Yeah, if I marked something way over MSRP, that would be overcharging. But just because others may sell it under MSRP does not mean that those who sell it at MSRP are overcharging.

    Your "drive everything down to the bottom dollar so everyone is poor " attitude is much more communist than anything I have said.

    It's not like you can't find Shimano stuff cheaper than MSRP in the US. You definitely can, and it's not hard.

    And if you really, actually, think that my selling at MSRP is overcharging, I dare you to switch paychecks with me for a year. You will be begging me to switch back after the first paycheck.
    Well I guess ...

    1. Idiots abound. I can only imagine what someone paid for a group at your little shop. Some folks have more money than brains.
    2. On economic theory, I think I have you beat. I'll leave it at that. In the case of a completely fungible good, like printer paper or a Shimano 9100 component group, the lowest price is always the best option, despite the fairy dust your shop sprinkles on it.
    3. Frankly, I don't even know what MSRP is. A bike shop quotes me $160 for a chain ring and I can find it on the web for $75, who is asking MSRP? I guess my take is that MSRP is THE MOST you can charge for something. You're starting to sound like the health care industry where an aspirin is $9 unless you have insurance.
    4. Seeking a low price has nothing to do with communism.
    5. There used to be a gas station in my town that literally charged $0.50/gallon more than the other 3-4 down the street. Guess what? They went out of business.
    6. You can keep your paycheck, I'm pretty sure mine's a lot larger.

    Bottom line -- A lot of cyclists who post on this website, including me, enjoyed a big discount on components from mostly UK retailers over the years. Does it hurt businesses like yours? Probably a little, but I doubt significantly. Do I, or most likely anyone here care? Probably not.

  9. #34
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    MSRP is Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. It's meaningless other than for sellers to advertise how much below (or above) MSRP they are selling things for.

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