So,is Campagnolo doomed ?? - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    A mechanic at my LBS said to me 'you don't want to buy a Campy group from us. You can probably find it cheaper than what we can buy it for'.
    Here in the US, there are a lot of empty calories in groupset costs from national and regional distributors.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I'd venture to guess that people who don't buy their bikes off the rack find their groups someplace on the internet. Over the past decade, I've bought half a dozen Campy and Shimano groups from outfits in the UK. Their prices are easily half what my LBS could offer.
    I remember reading an interview not long ago with someone from Campy and he was saying that in Europe its more common to buy a frame and have it built up. That is the model Campy was basing their sales approach on. He also said that this is changing and that they need to get onto OEMs bikes. I haven't seen that happening but at least they see the issue. I imagine for most people in the US, they walk into the shop and buy whatever Trek or Spez bike the store is forced to sell and never consider a custom build

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    A mechanic at my LBS said to me 'you don't want to buy a Campy group from us. You can probably find it cheaper than what we can buy it for'.
    That isn't unique to Campagnolo. Just about all groups other than SRAM can be had cheaper that the shop's supplier cost....SRAM being the exception because of the MAP=MSRP requirement--so it is just as expensive everywhere.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I remember reading an interview not long ago with someone from Campy and he was saying that in Europe its more common to buy a frame and have it built up. That is the model Campy was basing their sales approach on. He also said that this is changing and that they need to get onto OEMs bikes. I haven't seen that happening but at least they see the issue. I imagine for most people in the US, they walk into the shop and buy whatever Trek or Spez bike the store is forced to sell and never consider a custom build
    Things might have changed since the last time I was in Italy at a bike shop -- almost 15 years ago -- but I visited a few shops and was struck by the lack of inventory. A big shop in Rome had maybe 10 road bikes on the floor, and that was it. The shop out in Tuscany that supported the tour I went on had no road bikes on the floor. I ended up buying a frame from them. The guy running the shop took all kinds of measurements and I picked out what paint job I wanted. It was a really old school looking place, complete with old guys sitting in the back room, walls covered with ancient cogs, drinking coffee. I hope that place is still there.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I remember reading an interview not long ago with someone from Campy and he was saying that in Europe its more common to buy a frame and have it built up. That is the model Campy was basing their sales approach on. He also said that this is changing and that they need to get onto OEMs bikes. I haven't seen that happening but at least they see the issue. I imagine for most people in the US, they walk into the shop and buy whatever Trek or Spez bike the store is forced to sell and never consider a custom build
    Just anecdote but:

    3 of the 4 bikes I've had since I started getting into cycling were purchases of a frame only then components.

    And now that I think of it the majority of the 20 or so guys that I know well enough to say mostly buy frames only also.

    I would have to guess the casual European cyclist does just walk into a shop and buy whatever they have. I've been to Italy many times and don't see a lot of custom bikes or bikes I think can be purchased as frame only under Joe Blow out for a casual ride.

    I don't think it's really an American/European difference per se. More like a serious cyclist vs casual cyclist difference.

    At one time that difference was one in the same because Europe was full of serious cyclists and for all practical purposes none in the US. That's definitely less the case now though.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    No...my build is closer to DA.
    You are delusional if you think your Potenza / Chorus combo is the equivalent of Dura-Ace.

    Why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?
    I don't know but it is good entertainment.

    I can get a full Chorus groupset out of the back of a van in Romania for about the same as you paid for DA in a Manhattan bike shop so obviously you are wrong if you think Campy is more expensive

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    All bearings feel sooo smooth, the sensual hallmark that Shimano misses.
    You've obviously not spun a pair of Dura-Ace 9000/9100 pedals.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    You are delusional if you think your Potenza / Chorus combo is the equivalent of Dura-Ace.

    Why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?
    LOL. . . Tomato jumps the shark on that one! Potenza/Chorus = Dura Ace?? Dude needs remedial math. Only SR = Dura Ace. And as mentioned before Dura-Ace 9100 shifters cost more than SR (at least at Merlin Cycles).

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    You are delusional if you think your Potenza / Chorus combo is the equivalent of Dura-Ace.

    Why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?
    My combo is much better than DA. I rode DA9000 for a year a couple of summers ago. I am fortunate to own different bikes. My '09 Centaur 10s Ultrashift bike is better than DA.

    If you knew anything about cycling, difference between groupset levels within the same brand in a blind test almost doesn't exist. Take new Shimano 11s 105 versus DA. You couldn't tell in a blind test. Much better cyclists than you can't tell or have to be hyper focused on it. Same with Campy. Potenza versus SuperRecord. Nobody here could tell...other than with Potentza you can't multiple shift in both directions...which is the point of Chorus shifters. DA does NOT have this capability...both directions.

    Sorry to set you straight.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6si2XSCbdGQ&t=903s

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    If you knew anything about cycling, difference between groupset levels within the same brand in a blind test almost doesn't exist. Take new Shimano 11s 105 versus DA. You couldn't tell in a blind test.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6si2XSCbdGQ&t=903s
    Um ... both riders were able to tell the difference between 105 and Dura-Ace in the blind test in the linked video.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Potenza is much better than DA.
    Incredible. You've gone from Potenza / Chorus combo is "closer to Dura-Ace", to "Potenza is much better than Dura-Ace."
    Last edited by tomato coupe; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:59 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    No Centaur UltaShift...a rarity...is better than modern DA. Truthfully, Campy is just better. Yes it is quite incredible.

    Keep in mind, this is personal opinion. Many are happy on Shimano and Sram. We each have our favorites. Some guys don't like the Campy thumb shift for example. Some guys say they struggle shifting it from the drops. I don't have this problem because I have hands like a great artist or concert pianist and why I deserve the best from the great maestro Campagnolo.
    As asked earlier, why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking (more than) a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    . . . you can't multiple shift in both directions...which is the point of Chorus shifters. DA does NOT have this capability...both directions.
    Peter Sagan won the 2018 Paris Roubaix on DA mechanical, so apparently the lack of multi-shift didn't hold him back LOL. Just sayin.'
    Last edited by Notvintage; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:28 PM. Reason: added bike race

  15. #65
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    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...ed-364269.html
    Post #22
    "I never run Campy chains and a little secret is they work perfectly with an inexpensive KMC missing link which Campy doesn't support. Years back I bought a Campy equipped Bianchi from the factory that came with a KMC chain and Missing link...Bianchi didn't even spec the bike with a Campy chain.."

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...ml#post5297415
    Post #8
    "I rarely ride Campy chains in fact and when I do, I use a master link.. I even bought a Bianchi from Italy several years ago with Campy groupset from the factory and it came with a KMC chain on it with Missing (master) link"

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Its kinda like this...
    Campy owners are discriminating and passionate and why they take a more esoteric path, and Shimano owners are more like lemmings or sheep who don't have the talent to see talent in others.
    Campy loyalists tend to be older cyclists that remember when Campy was used by all the pros. They're not more discriminating; if anything, they are living in the past.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Campy is more artful.
    Now I understand. Campy isn't better because it functions better, it's better because it's more artful. Potenza is more artful than Dura-Ace.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    I personally think its more about culture. In Europe, Campy is more appreciated.
    Campy is more artful. Its reflects its Italian heritage and long lineage.

    You know anything about motorcycles TC? Its like comparing supersport motorcycles. Honda versus Ducati. Ducatis are generally perceived as more sensual...greater feast for the senses.

    I suppose it isn't fair to compare a Tarmac to Dogma F10. Some would say the same thing.

    The Italians have a flair. The Japanese, not so much. Again, my opinion. I have worked with engineers all over the world and believe their creativity and inspiration come from where they were born and raised somewhat.
    Why do you go on and on about Campy and Italian flair and artistics and creativity? and go to great extent to persuade others to buy into your self-perceived highly value opinion but of course you would pretend it's just your (casual) opinion? Why? Is it becuause it will make you feel better or validate your opinion more if others were to agree with all you have to proselytize? Get a grip dude, we get it, you're the ultimate Campy (or is it Campag?) fanboy! Christ you joined RBR in Feb 2019, don't think you're the first and only one who has seen this Shimano vs Campy thing.

    for the record I don't think campy is doomed. With fanboys like you, there's always some niched pickins to be had. In the meantime, lots of pros are doing ok on Shimano.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Its kinda like this...
    Campy owners are discriminating and passionate and why they take a more esoteric path, and Shimano owners are more like lemmings or sheep who don't have the talent to see talent in others. Sound familiar? You've never been told that before have you TC? Of course you have. Why you disparage Campy loyalists.
    Yes, it all sounds very familiar. That's why he asked the question as to why so many Campy fanatics seem so irrational on these threads.

    You can like what you like without being pompous by the way. I just don't get it. Does being pompous make you enjoy your bike more or something?
    Putting the choice of others down to elevate your own? Cliche but you seem a textbook case.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Jay, your perception of pomposity is misplaced. It is hyperbole. Over the top rhetoric to elicit a reaction. False bravado. Make more sense now? Comedy. I am the Howard Stern of bike wizards. You should love me but quite sure many don't get my schtick. Not everybody loves Stern.
    Well hat's off if it's been a parody act. AKA troll in the context of internet posting. I'll give credit where it's deu though. You do a great pompous arse impression.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    The Italians have a flair. The Japanese, not so much.
    kinda like my Acura and Dura-Ace.

    you can keep your Fiat and Campy...
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  22. #72
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    It sounds like you are describing tnumb buttons on Campy? I havenít ridden it, so Iím not in the know... But I have them on low end Shimano and I canít imagine wanting to ride that set up on purpose? Maybe Iím wrong... I must be. They do shift definitely. Plunk. I donít hate it in that regard. But my double tap is so vastly superior itís light years, at least to me. I can adjust the shifter lever position. I can also hold the shifter lever comfortably on my pointer finger pad, it has a super nice ergonomic shape, and you can rapid shift through gears in any hand position. It is as easy to shift in the drops as it is on the hoods. The lever will pull forward with almost no effort and the double tap system is fast and certain. I like fixed brakes and I hate the long throw of my Shimano brake levers when shifting. I ride a lot of short, sharp grades and the comfortable quick shifting, regardless of hand position, double tap is a game changer.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    You've obviously not spun a pair of Dura-Ace 9000/9100 pedals.
    Couldn't be any better than Campy Super Record rat traps, still spinning great after 20 years. Pedal bearings rotating at 70-90 rpm aren't going to wear out near as fast as wheel hubs, so I'm not impressed. . Loaded up, cheap MKS rat traps feel just as smooth as Campy. So when the cages wore down or took one too many crashes, I switched over. Never trashed a pedal spindle. The crank arm usually bends first, IME.

    Anyway, the Record BB spins free, largely because it has no teflon washers to keep out water. Campy BBs have reverse rifling where those seals would be, which literally pumps water out when rotating, so seals aren't necessary. The only contact between spindle and races is through the ball bearings.

    Try spinning a Shimano crank! No comparison! . Cranks take lots of torsional stress, so it makes a difference there. Not so much in the pedals, no?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Remember the X1/9? Truthfully, Campy is remarkably reliable. And yes, I admit some element of surprise to that but its true.

    Besides, its settled. Simon's personal training bike his last year as a pro. Campy Chorus 11s. Simon knows cycling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGFWw-0EfxI
    I'm the first to agree that Campy has a certain je ne sais quoi and I hope that they survive and thrive.

    On the other hand you've made my point with Simon's bike. I have exactly the same Tarmac S-works SL 3, same color/paint scheme, only with Campy record and super record 11 components. It was retired to my den wall 5 years ago when Campy stuck their heads in their arse and failed to produce a disc brake groupo, forcing me and many others to change back to Shimano. Do understand that they won many of us over in the first place by being the first to the party with 11 speed--a big step forward to fans of steep, sustained, climbing and descending.

    The issue was made worse because they are headquartered where disc brakes make/made more sense than 98% of the remainder of the world (near the southern foot of the Dolomites). They should have been the first--not the last.

    Perhaps someday they'll give me and the other dissappointed recreational climber/descenders a reason to reconsider and give them another go.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Why is it that Campy fanatics always come out looking a bit irrational in Campy vs. Shimano threads?
    Because Campy is always a cut above Shimano?

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