So,is Campagnolo doomed ?? - Page 8
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  1. #176
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    Some comparison numbers for those who may not know:

    Shimano:
    Founded February 1921
    Revenue Increase $ 2.93 billion (FY 2017) (• 322.99 billion) (FY 2017)
    Net income Increase $ 462.65 million (FY 2017) (• 50.89 billion) (FY 2017)
    Number of employees: 11,829 (consolidated, as of December 31, 2017)
    Sales breakdown: Bicycle Components: 79.7%, Fishing Tackle: 20.2%

    Campagnolo:
    Founded 1933
    Number of employees approx. 750
    Revenue Info: N/A

    SRAM:
    Founded 1987
    Revenue $725 million (2017)
    Number of employees: 3500

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Overly View Post
    Unless you were shopping for a Paramount in the 70s youíd rarely see Campy in a U.S. bike store. Back then it was the tough, beautiful state of the art that the Japanese shamelessly copied for a fraction of the price.
    This is a bit unfair. Both SunTour and Shimano were offering dropped parallelogram RDs in the late 70s that were far superior and far less expensive than anything Campy offered at that time. Campy didn't offer a truly competitive RD until the early 90s. Not sure how the rest of the groups compared, though.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    This is a bit unfair. Both SunTour and Shimano were offering dropped parallelogram RDs in the late 70s that were far superior and far less expensive than anything Campy offered at that time. Campy didn't offer a truly competitive RD until the early 90s. Not sure how the rest of the groups compared, though.
    I forgot about Suntour. They were a quality brand in the 1970's rivaling Shimano. They then went to the dark side along with Schwinn and you only find Suntour on budget bikes now.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I forgot about Suntour. They were a quality brand in the 1970's rivaling Shimano. They then went to the dark side along with Schwinn and you only find Suntour on budget bikes now.
    Some have argued that Suntour was a victim of catch & kill perpetrated by Shimano (snapping up many rival patents and burying them in Uncle Hiro's Attic).

    Such was expected by arrogant upstart Grip Shift that amazingly, gave Shimano's MTB gruppos the heebeegeebees in the nineties... and then they had the balls to go after a share of road gruppos as many expected Sram to be nuked from space by Shimano!!!

  5. #180
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    later Superbe Pro was gorgeous stuff and even spent some time in yellow during the '87 or '88 TdF.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    Some have argued that Suntour was a victim of catch & kill perpetrated by Shimano (snapping up many rival patents and burying them in Uncle Hiro's Attic).

    Such was expected by arrogant upstart Grip Shift that amazingly, gave Shimano's MTB gruppos the heebeegeebees in the nineties... and then they had the balls to go after a share of road gruppos as many expected Sram to be nuked from space by Shimano!!!
    SunTour was, arguably, the best of the component groups being made, but Shimano, being as large as it was\is ground them into oblivion much like Godzilla did Japan.
    SunTour created the slant parallelogram derailleur and held the patent making the best shifting derailleurs on the market.

    VeloBase.com - View Brand

    Sunset for SunTour
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  7. #182
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    Most everyone touts Campy shifters but those thumb shifters seem more like a novelty to me, they work fine, they just don't really do anything for me. I have to say though, aesthetically-speaking, Campy is beautiful and work fine.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Some comparison numbers for those who may not know:

    Shimano:
    Founded February 1921
    Revenue Increase $ 2.93 billion (FY 2017) (• 322.99 billion) (FY 2017)
    Net income Increase $ 462.65 million (FY 2017) (• 50.89 billion) (FY 2017)
    Number of employees: 11,829 (consolidated, as of December 31, 2017)
    Sales breakdown: Bicycle Components: 79.7%, Fishing Tackle: 20.2%

    Campagnolo:
    Founded 1933
    Number of employees approx. 750
    Revenue Info: N/A

    SRAM:
    Founded 1987
    Revenue $725 million (2017)
    Number of employees: 3500
    Thanks! Now Iím thinking of putting Campy on my next bike! I had no idea they were that small. Thumb buttons though? So, the brake levers are not part of the shifting function right? Like my SRAM...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  9. #184
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    in 50 years of cycling, have never been tempted to purchase Campy bits...

    guess I'll never know if I was missing anything.
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  10. #185
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    I really wish my hands fit Campagnolo hoods. The precision and serviceability (not to mention the cache) of the components really does appeal to me, but I have never found their brake-shifters to be the right fit.

    Shimano shifting has always felt like a limp noodle to me, even if I really like the braking performance, so I've been with SRAM for over a decade. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, I guess.

    Campagnolo will always have their core audience, and if they manage their resources well, they will be around for a very, very long time.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Thanks! Now Iím thinking of putting Campy on my next bike! I had no idea they were that small. Thumb buttons though? So, the brake levers are not part of the shifting function right? Like my SRAM...
    Correct. The brake levers do not rotate. Campy uses a paddle lever behind the brake lever to downshift and a thumb button to upshift. Compared with Shimano, I find there is far less twisting of hand/wrist required to shift. This is particularly nice when shifting during out-of-saddle climb. Compared to SRAM, I find it difficult to switch between the two, more so than Shimano as the same motion can result in total opposite action(downshift instead of upshift).

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Correct. The brake levers do not rotate. Campy uses a paddle lever behind the brake lever to downshift and a thumb button to upshift. Compared with Shimano, I find there is far less twisting of hand/wrist required to shift. This is particularly nice when shifting during out-of-saddle climb. Compared to SRAM, I find it difficult to switch between the two, more so than Shimano as the same motion can result in total opposite action(downshift instead of upshift).
    The thing that I like the best about Campagnolo levers is the fact that every function has it's own lever\button. I need to reach for the thumb button from the drops, but not unyieldingly so.
    Too old to ride plastic

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Some comparison numbers for those who may not know:

    Shimano:
    Founded February 1921
    Revenue Increase $ 2.93 billion (FY 2017) (• 322.99 billion) (FY 2017)
    Net income Increase $ 462.65 million (FY 2017) (• 50.89 billion) (FY 2017)
    Number of employees: 11,829 (consolidated, as of December 31, 2017)
    Sales breakdown: Bicycle Components: 79.7%, Fishing Tackle: 20.2%

    Campagnolo:
    Founded 1933
    Number of employees approx. 750
    Revenue Info: N/A

    SRAM:
    Founded 1987
    Revenue $725 million (2017)
    Number of employees: 3500
    I think SRAM guesstimated in their yearly report that Campagnolo had revenues of ~$80 million. Only $35 million from groupsets though, with the rest from their wheels (both Campagnolo and Fulcrum)
    Alleged "Campy fanboy" and "Einstein".

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Some comparison numbers for those who may not know:

    Shimano:
    Founded February 1921
    Revenue Increase $ 2.93 billion (FY 2017) (• 322.99 billion) (FY 2017)
    Net income Increase $ 462.65 million (FY 2017) (• 50.89 billion) (FY 2017)
    Number of employees: 11,829 (consolidated, as of December 31, 2017)
    Sales breakdown: Bicycle Components: 79.7%, Fishing Tackle: 20.2%

    Campagnolo:
    Founded 1933
    Number of employees approx. 750
    Revenue Info: N/A

    SRAM:
    Founded 1987
    Revenue $725 million (2017)
    Number of employees: 3500
    Of course it depends on where you draw the line at who is and is not a SRAM employee...for example all the Zipp people, all the Truvativ people, Quarq, Avid and so on.

    SRAM loves to talk about being a US a company making stuff in the USA....but it can only claim that because it bought Zipps factories in the US. All the actual SRAM gear is made elsewhere.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Correct. The brake levers do not rotate. Campy uses a paddle lever behind the brake lever to downshift and a thumb button to upshift.
    It's the paddle to up-shift and the thumb thing to downshift.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Correct. The brake levers do not rotate. Campy uses a paddle lever behind the brake lever to downshift and a thumb button to upshift. Compared with Shimano, I find there is far less twisting of hand/wrist required to shift. This is particularly nice when shifting during out-of-saddle climb. Compared to SRAM, I find it difficult to switch between the two, more so than Shimano as the same motion can result in total opposite action(downshift instead of upshift).
    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    It's the paddle to up-shift and the thumb thing to downshift.
    Push the thumb button down and chain drops to the smaller cog or chainwheel, push the paddle in and the chain moves to the larger cog or chainwheel. The paddle moves the chain in the same direction that the paddle moves, and a push of the thumb button always pushes the chain down. Push the left paddle and the chain moves away from the bike to the larger chainwheel while pushing the right paddle moves the chain towards the bike to the larger cog.
    Too old to ride plastic

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    It's the paddle to up-shift and the thumb thing to downshift.
    No, shifting to larger cassette is downshifting, shifting to smaller one is upshifting.

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    No, shifting to larger cassette is downshifting, shifting to smaller one is upshifting.
    So, the function is the same as my Shimano thumb button. I like the definitive thump of dropping the chain down. That includes both the cogs and chain ring. That said, it is, to me, and perhaps less subjectively and more objectively, a so-so model. My SRAM double tap has perfect access and utility from every hand position. The brake levers are just that... Brakes. I donít like the brake lever being involved with the shifting. Personal preference and I donít care what others prefer, not in a sarky way... Itís a long throw. Itís slow. It is especially annoying under high heat, high sweat conditions. Itís like life insurance... investments work better than insurance policies that double as investments and insurance works better than insurance that double as an investment. Then there is hand position... Those buttons can be pesky. Iíve had some ugly encounters, especially, again, under high sweat conditions. The ergonomics of the SRAM double tap are so well thought out... Brilliant.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackers View Post
    I think SRAM guesstimated in their yearly report that Campagnolo had revenues of ~$80 million. Only $35 million from groupsets though, with the rest from their wheels (both Campagnolo and Fulcrum)
    No need to guess, it's a matter of public record.
    Google returns a verifiable answer in tenths of a second ... it probably suits SRAM to under-report.
    HTH
    Graeme
    Velotech Cycling Ltd
    Nationally recognised & accredited training for cycle mechanics
    Main Campagnolo SC UK
    NB - Please don't PM me here, please email to velotechcycling"at" aim"dot"com

  20. #195
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    Too bad Eric Norris is no longer doing his Web site.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaDeliveryDude View Post
    Too bad Eric Norris is no longer doing his Web site.
    He's got a youtube channel.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcc...WU3-YaUf9LkNwA
    Too old to ride plastic

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    So, the function is the same as my Shimano thumb button. .

    The true difference between Shimano and Campy besides the one lever actions is that with campagnolo the gear shift is immediate,whilst Shimano it actually happens when you release the lever,it's like you're sort of preloading a coil. Nothing like that with Campagnolo,it's just one enjoyable shot.
    Can't speak of SRAM ergonomics but I've decided to swap from Shimano to Campagnolo by just holding one of the Campy's hoods from another guy bike in the showroom at lbs...it just felt right.

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Can't speak of SRAM ergonomics
    I currently have Campy and Sram. My bike with Campy used to have Shimano. I would say Sram is about half way between Campy and Shimano in terms of shifting ergonomics.

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    The true difference between Shimano and Campy besides the one lever actions is that with campagnolo the gear shift is immediate,whilst Shimano it actually happens when you release the lever,it's like you're sort of preloading a coil. Nothing like that with Campagnolo,it's just one enjoyable shot.
    Can't speak of SRAM ergonomics but I've decided to swap from Shimano to Campagnolo by just holding one of the Campy's hoods from another guy bike in the showroom at lbs...it just felt right.
    I never really paid attention to when the shift happens in relation to how the levers are activated and Yes, Iíve used both Shimano as well as Campy systems extensively. Probably as itís not like the Shimano system noticeably slows it down, or at least to the extent that I would really ever care.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    The true difference between Shimano and Campy besides the one lever actions is that with campagnolo the gear shift is immediate,whilst Shimano it actually happens when you release the lever,it's like you're sort of preloading a coil. Nothing like that with Campagnolo,it's just one enjoyable shot.
    Can't speak of SRAM ergonomics but I've decided to swap from Shimano to Campagnolo by just holding one of the Campy's hoods from another guy bike in the showroom at lbs...it just felt right.
    this is only true for going to a smaller cog. Going to a bigger cog the shift is immediate.

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