So,is Campagnolo doomed ??
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  1. #1
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    So,is Campagnolo doomed ??

    Canyon started off the year by placing 12s Campy groups on some of their bikes, now all of them have been replaced with the Sram AXS. Bianchi seems to be the only folks placing OEM Campy stuff so far...
    I'm afraid Campagnolo won't be able to sustain itself through this one,what do you think ?
    Loving my 12s Record anyway,not missing my Di2 at all...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    I'm afraid Campagnolo won't be able to sustain itself through this one,what do you think ?
    It's definitely going to be rough for them to say the least, and the 12 release isn't helping their cause, as it has VERY limited cassette choices and looks like crap. Aesthetics was always Campy's main draw (specially for me). FWIW, I just installed Shimano R9100 in place of my 2015 Campy Record group. I like Campy's hoods better, but functionally it's superior to Campy. The front derailleur is astonishingly brilliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Canyon started off the year by placing 12s Campy groups on some of their bikes, now all of them have been replaced with the Sram AXS. Bianchi seems to be the only folks placing OEM Campy stuff so far...
    I'm afraid Campagnolo won't be able to sustain itself through this one,what do you think ?
    Loving my 12s Record anyway,not missing my Di2 at all...
    I am a Campy guy but they have made some incredibly bad business decisions over the years and sadly have reduced themselves to a niche. The only way to come back is to make deals with OEMs and not rely on aftermarket sales.

  4. #4
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    I rode Shimano for years. I switched over to Campy about 10 years ago. i like the tactile feel of it, but I do think the Shimano front derailer shifting is a lot better (wife has 9100 on her bike). Part of my decision was based on when Shimano went to 11 speeds and changed the free hub body which made my existing wheels useless. They didn't have to do that, Campy didn't do that.

    In the U.S., Campy has been a niche for years. I've never seen a Campy equipped bike on the floor of my LBS. At least not in recent history. Now all the Campy groups have disappeared from the UK sites like Ribble. Its priced ridiculously in the U.S. And the stuff is increasingly looking like Shimano (e.g. the new cranks). They replaced the cool retro looking Athena with the ugly Potenza group. Now those components are going for big bucks if you can find them. What were they thinking?

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    They'll either figure out how to survive...or vulture capitalists will loot their corpse, and they'll end up like Mavic.

    Used to love the stuff. Too expensive on this side of the Atlantic to bother anymore, fewer desirable options...and TBH I simply like my Di2 rig much more than my Chorus rig. If/when Shimano goes wireless Di2 (say Di3?), that will replace the 2015 Chorus on that rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Now all the Campy groups have disappeared from the UK sites like Ribble.
    Really? Fact check:

    Wiggle lists 14 Campy groups on their website.

    Chain reaction lists 19 Campy groups on their website.

    It's true that Ribble doesn't list any Campy groups, but they don't offer many groups in general. They offer 7 SRAM groups (which they will not ship to the U.S.) and 3 Shimano groups (two of which are Tiagra.) Ribble clearly isn't the place to buy groups.

  7. #7
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Really? Fact check:

    Wiggle lists 14 Campy groups on their website.

    Chain reaction lists 19 Campy groups on their website.

    It's true that Ribble doesn't list any Campy groups, but they don't offer many groups in general. They offer 7 SRAM groups (which they will not ship to the U.S.) and 3 Shimano groups (two of which are Tiagra.) Ribble clearly isn't the place to buy groups.
    It sure used to be. I guess the place has gone down hill since it changed hands. The last Campy Chorus group I got for a little under $800 (version 2 11-speed). Both of those sites have Campy groups for sale, but there's little flexibility on configuring some of the groups (fact check: check out Chorus on both). I always found Chain Reaction's pricing to be higher than Ribble's. And Wiggle had some customer complaints on this board.

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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Agree Shimano's mechanical shifting in front is hard to beat.
    But, Campy Chorus is all you need and buy out of the UK and ship free to the US and it is relatively inexpensive.
    I have several bikes with 11-speed Chorus. I agree that it's all you need in the Campy line up. Record and Super Record are mechanically identical. Its just a lot of money for some carbon and titanium bits and pieces.

    I have to admit though -- Shimano Ultegra has got to be the best value in bike components. It's no wonder Shimano sells a butt load of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I always found Chain Reaction's pricing to be higher than Ribble's.
    Merlin Cycles is an excellent place to buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Merlin Cycles is an excellent place to buy.
    Thanks.

  11. #11
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    Doubt it. Campy has been a niche brand for as long as I can remember, at least for the past 30 yrs. They are here before Canyon, and will likely be afterwards. While groupset/component prices are rising, the cost delta between comparable Campy/Shimano groupsets are shrinking, which might actually benefit Campy, a company that is roughly 1/100th the size of the Japanese giant.

    Campy is the Ferrari of the cycling world, Shimano is the Mustang/Camaro/Corvette, and I suspect there isn't much cross-shopping between the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Campy is the Ferrari of the cycling world, Shimano is the Mustang/Camaro/Corvette, and I suspect there isn't much cross-shopping between the two.
    No, as Shimano is reliable and well made. I'd say it's the Lexus of components. Hell, the 9100 Shimano shifters cost more than Super Record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    When it comes to Campy versus the rest, there will always be difference of opinion. To me, Campy has no peer...mechanical or electric. They are the best.

    Reports of Campy's demise have circulated for years. There is nothing to them past or present...any more than Shimano or Sram could go bankrupt.

    I just stripped Di2 off a bike of mine in favor of Campy Chorus. To me, Campy mechanical isn't a little better than anything Shimano makes...but a lot better.

    Ergonomics is the biggest difference. Not only the tactile feel of Campy shifters but their shifting protocol...from Shimano's 'brake lever' shift to Di2 with buttons right next to one another. All groupsets shift well down to lowly 105. Ergonomics is what separates groupsets provided reliability is there and Campy is dead reliable.
    ^^^ This. I love the feel and ergonomics of Campy.

  14. #14
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    never owned anything made by Campy...

    doubt I'd miss it if it goes away.
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I have several bikes with 11-speed Chorus. I agree that it's all you need in the Campy line up. Record and Super Record are mechanically identical. Its just a lot of money for some carbon and titanium bits and pieces.

    I have to admit though -- Shimano Ultegra has got to be the best value in bike components. It's no wonder Shimano sells a butt load of it.
    the best valued group is 105, made in Japan just like DA and Ultegra, probably all 3 groups are made in the same factories in Japan. Below 105 then they're made outside of Japan.

  16. #16
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    As mentioned, Campy has had it's issues, but today's markets are incredibly sensitive to missteps. I think the brand will easily survive, but it might not be in a form that pleases the purists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Canyon started off the year by placing 12s Campy groups on some of their bikes, now all of them have been replaced with the Sram AXS. Bianchi seems to be the only folks placing OEM Campy stuff so far...
    I'm afraid Campagnolo won't be able to sustain itself through this one,what do you think ?
    Loving my 12s Record anyway,not missing my Di2 at all...
    I was a big Campy fan and still have my s-works Tarmac that I built with record and super record (it now hangs on the wall of my den and has not been used in 4 years).

    Campy led the way into 11 speed and now into 12 speed. For recreational climbers, 12 speed should eventually be a big improvement. 11 speed was huge for this group of riders and caused a number of folks to convert.

    Just as they won market share by leading the way into 11 speed, Campy crapped in their own nest by letting the component world pass them by on disc brakes. It forced a lot of fairly new loyalists to convert back to Shimano and Di2 when the advantage of hydraulic discs became apparent by mid 2015.

    Clearly, the Luddite population was positively affected by the Campy disc brake innovation failure, however, this group hated 11 speed for the first 5 years. 12 speed will almost certainly reawaken and energize the haters.

    I'm not sure who remains as potential buyers?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I was a big Campy fan and still have my s-works Tarmac that I built with record and super record (it now hangs on the wall of my den and has not been used in 4 years).

    Campy led the way into 11 speed and now into 12 speed. For recreational climbers, 12 speed should eventually be a big improvement. 11 speed was huge for this group of riders and caused a number of folks to convert.

    Just as they won market share by leading the way into 11 speed, Campy crapped in their own nest by letting the component world pass them by on disc brakes. It forced a lot of fairly new loyalists to convert back to Shimano and Di2 when the advantage of hydraulic discs became apparent by mid 2015.

    Clearly, the Luddite population was positively affected by the Campy disc brake innovation failure, however, this group hated 11 speed for the first 5 years. 12 speed will almost certainly reawaken and energize the haters.

    I'm not sure who remains as potential buyers?
    I attribute it less to that...and more to simple market lockdown (harder to buy/source and increasing price--who wants to order and RMA to the EU for parts??), fleeing OEMs and fewer agreements....and let's be honest, asinine non-intercompatibility of tiers and some very fool ideas. Anyone remember the wonderful "escape" abomination of shifters? How about that wonderful power-torque BB that you needed a proprietary $100 puller to remove the crank to do a BB service? Who could keep straight "powershift", "quickshift", "ultrashift" and so on--just to make artificial tier differentiation and try to upsell consumers?

    Campagnolo has made some nice jewelry for bikes....some lemons, sure...but they made it hard to buy their product and know what would work.


    It has gotten so bad that now Campagolo has [A], [C], and [D] on their parts stamped to try and not confuse wrenches any more who cannot keep the non-inter-compatibility straight EVEN within the SAME MY....BUT....those stamps only appear on post-2015 parts (BUT in that year only Chorus and up).
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    No, as Shimano is reliable and well made. I'd say it's the Lexus of components. Hell, the 9100 Shimano shifters cost more than Super Record.
    I am not disputing the construction and functionality of Shimano. I own and services both brands, it is how each brand's design and built philosophy that are polar opposites. Comparing flagship lines like SR/DA doesn't truly demonstrate this, but pick up any mid-low range components like Potenza and Ultegra, look closely how they are both designed, built, and execution of small details, and that what I am referring to.

    Lexus is a fine automobile, but after all, is not a Ferrari.

  20. #20
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    I'd hope that Campy is a lot more reliable than a Ferrari??!! The 'garage queen' brand of car.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ferr...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    they've made some mighty pretty groupsets. The last of them being C-Record

    Anyone else remember Campy Syncro? lol . OK they overcame that blunder, I'll grant, but it took a few years and really opened the door for Shimano to penetrate and get established in the peleton (and all other levels of racing in the 80s and early 90s)

    My garage queen has Campy on it. 2 years since last ridden. so pretty.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 02-20-2019 at 09:25 AM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Doesn't seem the same hysteria in Europe where IMO cycling IQ tends to be a bit higher.
    lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    Others seem blind to these details.
    Or maybe just disagree?

    Your posts are ridiculously pompous and condescending.
    Joe Louis had come out of retirement to fight Rocky Marciano and he was seventy six years old. Joe Louis is always lying about his age. He lied about his age all the time. One time Frank Sinatra came in here and sat in this chair. I said Frank 'you hang out with Joe Louis, just between me and you, how old is Joe Louis.' You know what Frank told me, he said 'hey, Joe Louis is 137 years old.' 137 years old!!

    Fronting like you're on the cutting edge of Red Lobster news

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I attribute it less to that...and more to simple market lockdown (harder to buy/source and increasing price--who wants to order and RMA to the EU for parts??), fleeing OEMs and fewer agreements....and let's be honest, asinine non-intercompatibility of tiers and some very fool ideas. Anyone remember the wonderful "escape" abomination of shifters? How about that wonderful power-torque BB that you needed a proprietary $100 puller to remove the crank to do a BB service? Who could keep straight "powershift", "quickshift", "ultrashift" and so on--just to make artificial tier differentiation and try to upsell consumers?

    Campagnolo has made some nice jewelry for bikes....some lemons, sure...but they made it hard to buy their product and know what would work.


    It has gotten so bad that now Campagolo has [A], [C], and [D] on their parts stamped to try and not confuse wrenches any more who cannot keep the non-inter-compatibility straight EVEN within the SAME MY....BUT....those stamps only appear on post-2015 parts (BUT in that year only Chorus and up).
    There is truth in your observations (the super expensive but required Campy chain tool ).

    On the other hand, the failure to get hydraulic discs on the market had to be big in Austria, Northern Italy, and Switzerland where their superiority was apparent to serious recreational riders by the end of the summer of 2014. Four years late in the Alps / Dolomites and the home of Campy was just too much.

    I hope I am wrong and that they keep it together enough to build marrket share.

    Buying components in EU is a small issue compared to the cost savings.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    How about that wonderful power-torque BB that you needed a proprietary $100 puller to remove the crank to do a BB service?
    And let's not also forget the +$200 dollar tool to put a stupid pin in their chain. That is hilarious, as no one but Campy even uses a pin. Instead of silly 12 group they should have released a SR pedal and a chain that uses a link (it is the 21st century after all). I think if not for their excellent wheels they would be gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    I don't want to own Sram.
    We so agree on that point. I'd rather not ride that ride a bike with SCAM on it. Hideous bit of kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onyrleftus View Post
    For the decades I have owned Campy, I never owned a Campy specific chain tool. I rarely ride Campy chains in fact and when I do, I use a master link.. I even bought a Bianchi from Italy several years ago with Campy groupset from the factory and it came with a KMC chain on it with Missing (master) link.

    Campy cranks are also a bit precarious. UltaTorque needs a special bearing installation tool which I own...but their PowerTorque cranks are/were crap and needed other proprietary tools. Their UltraTorque cranks are far and away the best but they don't have the versatility of Shimano cranks I prefer.
    Sometimes, I wonder if Campy even listens to customer criticism. Their desire to force us to use specialty tools to install chains and cranks (PowerTap) despite negative user feedback makes no sense. If they had done this once and learned their lesson that would be one thing but they've done it repeatedly. The only folks that like it are the KMC folks selling all those master links!

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