Talk me into a 46/36
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  1. #1
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    Talk me into a 46/36

    ....anyone?

  2. #2
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    I don't get it. Why have less range than a compact?

    I'd think that anyone who thinks 50 is too big would also rather 34 instead of 36 on the other end for hills.

  3. #3
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by saddle tramp View Post
    Talk me into a 46/36
    ....anyone?
    No. Given this is a road bike forum. That sounds dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I don't get it. Why have less range than a compact?

    I'd think that anyone who thinks 50 is too big would also rather 34 instead of 36 on the other end for hills.
    Me either. About the only place that'd be useful is on a flatland cyclocross.
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  4. #4
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    What kind of bike, and what kind of riding? On trails with steep hills or pancake flat roads?

    I have 46/36 + 11-32 on my CX/Gravel bike, ride mixed terrain with a fair amount of hilly dirt but plenty of pavement, and it's great. I don't feel like I need a bigger chain ring when I'm riding it, even on the road... but I'm rarely trying to ride fast on that bike.

    I have 53/39 + 11-28 on my road bike, there are times I think about putting the 52/36 setup on but I still manage just fine on hills with it. I don't think I'll ever go back to a 50/34, and 46/36 would look really goofy on that bike.

  5. #5
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    IIRC, they use 46/36 in the circus, for the bikes that bears and clowns ride on.

  6. #6
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    I liked 46/34 once upon a time. But, I ride on mostly flat land.

    Now, though, it's 1X on all my bikes. I like the simplicity.
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  7. #7
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    I dunno...10 cog spacing between rings kinda went out with 6 sp freewheels.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I don't get it. Why have less range than a compact?

    I'd think that anyone who thinks 50 is too big would also rather 34 instead of 36 on the other end for hills.

    Relic from CX, where if you needed a gear lower than 36/X you probably were faster walking...which also resulted in the only crankset for roadish groups that had lower gearing than a compact was 46/36.

    Today though you can get 46/30 or 48/32
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  9. #9
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    If you already are against it and need to be talked into it then say no more...you made the right decision to begin with.

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    Is this a mountain bike?

  11. #11
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    I'm running a 46x30 on a bike and like it, it's like a 1x with a granny. I rarely use a 50 tooth chainring with an 11 or 12 tooth rear cog so I didn't see a point. I now have more useable gears.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Relic from CX, where if you needed a gear lower than 36/X you probably were faster walking...which also resulted in the only crankset for roadish groups that had lower gearing than a compact was 46/36.

    Today though you can get 46/30 or 48/32
    Keeping the standard 16t jump in a compact (50/34) would result in a larger % change by starting at a 30. So maybe (if available) a 46/31 would keep the same % change. Agree that 46/36 makes zero sense.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Agree that 46/36 makes zero sense.
    I concur. In a world where a 16 tooth jump has been perfected, why go back to only a 10 tooth difference? Makes no sense to me.
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  14. #14
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    i bought used cross bike with 46/36. and yeah, didn't really understand it. have a 50-34 on my road bike. so i swapped the rear to 11-34 (from 11-28) for the hilly area and trails i ride in. but since it's 110bcd/5-bolt, i can only find a 34 to swap the 36...

    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm running a 46x30 on a bike and like it, it's like a 1x with a granny. I rarely use a 50 tooth chainring with an 11 or 12 tooth rear cog so I didn't see a point. I now have more useable gears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jksu View Post
    i bought used cross bike with 46/36. and yeah, didn't really understand it. have a 50-34 on my road bike. so i swapped the rear to 11-34 (from 11-28) for the hilly area and trails i ride in. but since it's 110bcd/5-bolt, i can only find a 34 to swap the 36...
    Here's some sort of magic that is supposed to work. But think that the set of rings need be used together, but I'm not sure.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/bikinGreen-...MAAOSwOj5cxUSS
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by saddle tramp View Post
    ....anyone?
    If that 46 isn't too low for when you're really feeling good or about to be dropped on the Tuesday club ride, go for it. With all due respect to Lombard's 16 t. ideal, 10 teeth difference shifts faster and smoother than 16 teeth. Now you can use the front derailleur at speed. It'll shift precisely. The legs can pick up the cadence without losing bike speed, spinning out, or having to double shift in the back. I luxuriated one winter on the rolling hills of ETX with 52/44 in front and a 22 climbing cog in back. It was like having two big chainrings instead of one, instantly selectable with a quick flick of the shifter, no cadence pick ups, just ever so slightly easier or harder, exactly what rider wants on a hard ride.

    That 36 inner ring or larger would climb well on a 20-25# road bike. On a 30, rider would be spinning out at 8 mph, or riding a few cogs out. Much easier fighting gravity at 70-80 rpm than at 95-110, if the hill isn't a sprint. No need to be "under-geared" on pavement.

    If a horse could draw a buggy up the grade, a bicyclist can with no problem, in 42-28, for starters. Take it from there!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    With all due respect to Lombard's 16 t. ideal, 10 teeth difference shifts faster and smoother than 16 teeth.
    I don't think that he presented 16t as an "ideal" but rather something that has been well worked out and works well. Of course a smaller tooth jump will tend to shift better. Back in the "half step plus granny" days, 3, 4, or 5t jumps made for really smooth front shifts, but limited the gear range. And that is the reason to stick with the 16t jump - to gain the full use of the cassette range.

    I can see the narrower jump for actual CX racing where pressure on the shift is high and missing a shift can cost you. For general use, it doesn't offer much benefit and you lose a bunch of gear range.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    I don't think that he presented 16t as an "ideal" but rather something that has been well worked out and works well.
    Exactly. Chain drops were made virtually non-existent with the Shimano 5800/6800/9000 generation and beyond. Shifts smooth as silk.

    As usual, Fred's posts should be taken with a grain of salt which would lead us to believe he regularly rides up hills in these difficult gears even though we have never seen him pedal a bike. Lastly, comparing horse power to human power is ludicrous to say the least.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Exactly. Chain drops were made virtually non-existent with the Shimano 5800/6800/9000 generation and beyond. Shifts smooth as silk.

    As usual, Fred's posts should be taken with a grain of salt which would lead us to believe he regularly rides up hills in these difficult gears even though we have never seen him pedal a bike. Lastly, comparing horse power to human power is ludicrous to say the least.
    Builders graded roads that could handle one horse power pulling a carriage. Those roads are still around and graded perfectly for one person on a bicycle. The roads in DC Metro, the rolling hills of ETX, and even the LA valley and adjoining hills, are all doable by riders with a few thousand miles in their legs, in 42-28 on a 24# road bike. That's all I'm saying.

    Paris-Roubaix riders have 52/44s and 53/45s. They want larger gears, finding slower cadences keeps the bike on the cobbles more evenly. They don't want the range a climber would prefer. The course is flat.

    IOW, use the gears that work. Get rid of the ones that don't and you never use. The legs don't need the "bailout gears" after the first year. How often do you use that 50-11 or 34-30? How often do you climb in 39-28 for that matter? I never see it on the MUT.

    Also, my experience wrestling with thousands of these bikes, is that 16+ tooth jumps is just an invitation for a lost chain. The rear derailleur has to take up lots of slack. If the stop screws are slightly out of adjustment, the cage is slightly out of parallel with the rings or too high, the chain is worn out, shifting on a bump in the road can drop the chain. This never happens with less than a 10 tooth jump. The movement is minimal, so rear derailleur quickly takes up the slack. Shimano engineers the chain and rings to shift under power. That would minimize chain slack, but most riders don't shift under power.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    How often do you use that 50-11 or 34-30? How often do you climb in 39-28 for that matter? I never see it on the MUT.
    Of course you never see it on a MUT. MUT's are mostly flat to 3% max.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Also, my experience wrestling with thousands of these bikes, is that 16+ tooth jumps is just an invitation for a lost chain.
    As I stated before, modern drivetrains are designed to handle a 16 tooth jump. I have been riding 8000+ miles on these and have dropped my chain exactly twice in that time. Both times were my own error, not the fault of the drivetrain. If you know how to shift properly, this no longer is a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    The rear derailleur has to take up lots of slack. If the stop screws are slightly out of adjustment, the cage is slightly out of parallel with the rings or too high, the chain is worn out, shifting on a bump in the road can drop the chain.
    FYI, I recently had to replace a chain on a 6800 drivetrain at 6000 miles due to a stiff link. Guess what? This chain had almost no wear otherwise. I even cross chain in small-small quite often. Replaced the chain, old cassette, still shifts flawlessly.

    Have you ever ridden a bike with a modern drivetrain, Fred? From your past posts, it sounds like most of your equipment is vintage. Nothing wrong with that IMO, but comparing the behavior of 1990's drivetrains to present day equipment is an apples to oranges comparison.
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  21. #21
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    How often do you use that 50-11 or 34-30? How often do you climb in 39-28 for that matter? I never see it on the MUT.

    Stop riding the MUT and go out on real roads. Why do you need gears at all on a MUT?

    I use 50-11 & 34-30 on virtually every ride. But then.... I never ever ride on a MUT.

    The rear derailleur has to take up lots of slack. If the stop screws are slightly out of adjustment, the cage is slightly out of parallel with the rings or too high, the chain is worn out, shifting on a bump in the road can drop the chain.
    You really don't know what you're talking about.
    Last edited by tlg; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:30 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I luxuriated one winter on the rolling hills of ETX with 52/44 in front and a 22 climbing cog in back. It was like having two big chainrings instead of one, instantly selectable with a quick flick of the shifter, no cadence pick ups, just ever so slightly easier or harder, exactly what rider wants on a hard ride.
    I realize that in the Cat 7 world of MUP chasing and fantasy rides quick shifting is very important and 44/22 is all anyone would ever need for those monster daydream climbs.

    But in the real world where people ride fast and/or competitively; needing to shift in the front "at speed" is quite rare (as is losing half a revolution to do it mattering) and the need for gears lower than 44/22 is not rare at all for those who might actually climb not just post about it on the internet.

    But I do realize that losing half a pedal stroke to shift could make or break getting by a dog walker in time to beat someone to the next crosswalk so whatever works for you.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    You really don't know what you're talking about.
    I tried to put it in a nicer way, but yes. I don't think Fred has worked on a bike in a long time.

    BTW, you need to correct that quote which was written by Fred, not Saddle Tramp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    and the need for gears lower than 44/22 is not rare at allfor those who might actually climb not just post about it on the internet.


    Bingo!


    Last edited by Lombard; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:22 AM.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

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  24. #24
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I tried to put it in a nicer way
    facts are neither mean nor nice.

    BTW, you need to correct that quote which was written by Fred, not Saddle Tramp.
    Thanks. Fixed. Didn't notice that. Must've been autosaved in there.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I use 50-11 & 34-30 on virtually every ride.
    Really? 35 mph? I take it you would rather pedal down hills than just get in a tight tuck and coast? You would actually be faster in the tuck.

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