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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Iím talking about complete bikes.

    If someone walks in with a stack of frog pelts for a 10k bike and owner wonít haggle then thatís ok but the person may go elsewhere.

    Conversely, I donít care for people who haggle without the means to purchase right then and there.

    Those types suck!
    Well OK, understood. Believe me, I hear stories from my shop about people who come in and try to haggle the price of $20 parts.

    But in the end, it's a law of supply and demand. If it's a hot seller, forget about a discount. If it's a low interest model or a leftover, there is wiggle room. Still not what I would define as the "toughest LBS I would have to deal with".
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    Also, understand that for every person who is annoyed that a shop can't do something while they wait (because sometimes we just can't) there's another person who is annoyed because you don't take reservations. There's only so much time in the day, and the people who use the guy who takes appointments probably think they're getting great service because of it.
    To clarify: I get that there are things that can't be done on the spot and times where a shop is too busy. I think appointments make sense for major repairs/overhauls, but are silly if all you want is a wheel trued. I try to handle most things myself, but I've accepted that I just suck at certain things (like truing wheels or wrapping bar tape). For those things, I got to my LBS that just about always has me out the door in 15 minutes or less.

    I once made the mistake of going to one of their competitors to get a wheel trued, and ended up waiting almost two weeks after they forgot about my bike. When I called, they told me they would have it done that day. Of course, I showed up and it wasn't done. They just ended up doing it while I waited, which is what they could have done in the first place.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    Also, understand that for every person who is annoyed that a shop can't do something while they wait (because sometimes we just can't) there's another person who is annoyed because you don't take reservations. There's only so much time in the day, and the people who use the guy who takes appointments probably think they're getting great service because of it.
    There's a great shop near me (for repairs, not for buying stuff) that takes appointments and tends to be really good about on the spot fixes.
    Their solution is staffing to meet demand. One excellent mechanic for where skill is really needed and one for flats and other minor stuff that rolls through the door.
    I think the minor repair guy only works weekends in the summer.

  4. #29
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    A good mechanic providing good service at an honest price is all I'm looking for. If they can fix it right now, I'm happy, if not, well N+1.

    I do most all of the maintenance on my bikes, but when I have an issue beyond my capabilities, or tool chest, I usually know it's coming and I can speak to the mechanic before hand and know what to expect. No surprise, on either side, when he gets the work, and like I said, I have another bike to ride, if necessary.

    That being said, the guy I used has just retired, closing his shop, and I have been in a tool buying mood.

    I also have the opinion that people who treat their bikes like some of these posted in CX's thread about poor bike maintenance are fools if they expect to be moved to the head of the line.
    Too old to ride plastic

  5. #30
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    The shop that never have what I need. "I don't carry that, but I can order it for you".
    No wonder I shop online.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    my closest shop (5 mins ride) has a sign on the door warning that repairs need to have an "appointment" The owner works by himself but he looks pissed off when customers drop in on him and I haven't been to his shop in over 10 years. The other guy, 20 minutes away has a smaller shop, less on display, only stocks three brands of bikes and often does adjustments and quick repairs for free. I get discount on parts I buy there but usually just rounded down to the nearest dollar. He is busy, happy and I've sent over 20 people to him. Service is what wins you repeat customers not a few dollars knocked off the price. That said, if your bike looks like a POS I understand the guy saying that will take a few hours, come back later.
    This. My shop, offers free lifetime adjustments on every bike they sell regardless of price point. Drop in whenever, leave my bike, pick it up when it's ready (Most of my recent trips where to do with creaky bottom bracket and DI2 firmware updates).

    They are typically busy in the busy season, just like any other store, but always ake time for customers and drop ins. Not to mention they will tell the customer that the cost of tuning/repair exceeds the value of the bike and turn away good business.. Principles I guess They won't turn down the request if the customer insists, but at least they are open and honest about it.

    Plus.. they have a greeting doggy

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlandry View Post
    The shop that never have what I need. "I don't carry that, but I can order it for you".
    No wonder I shop online.
    That all depends on what you need. Shops stock lower cost items. You cannot expect them to have a cabinet full of $500 parts which may sell once every few months. That is a lot of capital to lay out.

    Most stores will have the basics, tubes, tires, cables, some handlebar wrap, pedals and clothing, as well as whatever bikes they stock. Anything expensive is going to be a special order.

    This is of course why online storefronts are better from a stock perspective, because they just have a warehouse, and are catering to a global market not a local market. And even then, some just do drop shipments from the manufacturer to your doorstep rather than stocking the item in their warehouse. A lot of variables involved.

    Simple fact is, if you don't want LBSs to go out of business, you have to frequent them and spend money. You are not going to get the same service from an online retailer.

  8. #33
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljvb View Post
    That all depends on what you need. Shops stock lower cost items. You cannot expect them to have a cabinet full of $500 parts which may sell once every few months. That is a lot of capital to lay out.

    Most stores will have the basics, tubes, tires, cables, some handlebar wrap, pedals and clothing, as well as whatever bikes they stock. Anything expensive is going to be a special order.

    This is of course why online storefronts are better from a stock perspective, because they just have a warehouse, and are catering to a global market not a local market. And even then, some just do drop shipments from the manufacturer to your doorstep rather than stocking the item in their warehouse. A lot of variables involved.

    Simple fact is, if you don't want LBSs to go out of business, you have to frequent them and spend money. You are not going to get the same service from an online retailer.
    ^This^ We don't stock much in the way of cranks, brakes, levers...stuff like that. We can get it so quickly from distributors it's just not worth it having that much overhead.
    I work for some bike racers
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I couldn't have said it better here! Really, do people really expect to haggle the price of low profit margin parts?

    Now I have experienced all types of bike shops from dismal to exemplary. IMHO, as long as they fix my problem and aren't outright gouging me, they're good.

    I don't know what makes a bike shop "tough to deal with", but my biggest pet peeve is if I spend $$ for a repair and then the problem isn't fixed.

    1) Good
    2) Cheap
    3) Fast

    Pick two.

    And let's remember that the good bike shops will be busy and have a backlog. A bike shop that is empty on a warm sunny Saturday afternoon is probably not one you should be patronizing unless you want a ham-fisted repair.
    the closest bike shop to me in 5min away. We bought my wife;s $3k mtn bike there long ago and I took my bikes there twice for repair. Each time it turned out to be:

    1/ Slowwwwwww
    2/ Really expensive
    3/ bad repairs I had to re-do on my own right after! (1 was fixing some cross bike disc brakes, the other was rebuilding a failed Mavic freehub. They flubbed both!)

    so I think we gotta have a 4th criteria:
    4/ how close the bike shop is

    in my experience, the further I have to drive, the better the shops get. I have 4 shops within 6 minutes, but the one I trust and love now is about 20 min away. And then the shops 25min away downtown are pretty good too. Thus I have spent over 20k at this 20minute-away bike shop in the last 2 years .. and they do not mind that I bought my mtb brakes on ebay, lol.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  10. #35
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    the closest bike shop to me in 5min away. We bought my wife;s $3k mtn bike there long ago and I took my bikes there twice for repair. Each time it turned out to be:

    1/ Slowwwwwww
    2/ Really expensive
    3/ bad repairs I had to re-do on my own right after! (1 was fixing some cross bike disc brakes, the other was rebuilding a failed Mavic freehub. They flubbed both!)

    so I think we gotta have a 4th criteria:
    4/ how close the bike shop is

    in my experience, the further I have to drive, the better the shops get. I have 4 shops within 6 minutes, but the one I trust and love now is about 20 min away. And then the shops 25min away downtown are pretty good too. Thus I have spent over 20k at this 20minute-away bike shop in the last 2 years .. and they do not mind that I bought my mtb brakes on ebay, lol.
    You have to be really confused to mess up a Mavic freehub service/replacement.
    I work for some bike racers
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    and a bunch of skateboards

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    We can get it so quickly from distributors it's just not worth it having that much overhead.
    *inventory
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  12. #37
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    *inventory
    Right you are.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljvb View Post
    This.

    Plus.. they have a greeting doggy
    Greety cat in my case. And the owner will tell me it's quicker and cheaper to order it on Amazon quite often. And he rides every Thursday when the shop is closed.

  14. #39
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    I hacve zero problem with a shop making money, even when itís off of me. I need them, they need me.

    Iím very happy with my LBS and I have a boat load to choose from. My first bike I brought to them I bought on Craigís list. Same for the second bike I brought to them. They did on the spot work when they could and they did quality work quickly when they couldnít. And I have always received good service and fair treatment. I have since purchased 2 bikes from them. Their service is just as good... Recently, I bought a bike online for my daughters birthday. By every chart it was the right size and I got a great price. She was thrilled! I wasnít... When she stood over the bike it was way too big. I failed to adequately account for the fact she is MY daughter and has no legs. Just a torso and feet. I brought it to my LBS. I ate some loss, and happily. I replaced it with a properly fitting commuter and she is so thrilled! She LOVES the new bike! They helped me out AND they made some extra coin on my mistake. Thatís life right there. Shoulda just bought the damn bike from them originally and it would have been $100 cheaper. They are always very nice and they have unloaded some clearance items for super cheap that I use regularly. Again, I expect that they need to make a living, and I make that expectation known.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    ^This^ We don't stock much in the way of cranks, brakes, levers...stuff like that. We can get it so quickly from distributors it's just not worth it having that much overhead.
    ^That^

    If I need a part, I get on the phone with my shop and see if they can get it. Then I go pick it up a day or two later. It's still faster than buying online.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    ďStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.Ē -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    ^That^

    If I need a part, I get on the phone with my shop and see if they can get it. Then I go pick it up a day or two later. It's still faster than buying online.
    sure ya do.
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  17. #42
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    sure ya do.
    What exactly is your problem?
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    the price is the price. 100% respect here

    also, my offer is my offer. respect that, fo

    just biznez. why do folks gets so cranky about this??? The bikes shops know their niche, they know about Chain Reaction, and they also know sometimes a person needs their goods asap. It's all good.
    "Look, I know they're asking a dollar for that orange, why do they have to get so cranky when I offer them seventy cents? Respect my offer!"

    "Look, I know the hamburger and fries is $10.99, but I really only want to pay 9 bucks. Respect my offer!"

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    To clarify: I get that there are things that can't be done on the spot and times where a shop is too busy. I think appointments make sense for major repairs/overhauls, but are silly if all you want is a wheel trued. I try to handle most things myself, but I've accepted that I just suck at certain things (like truing wheels or wrapping bar tape). For those things, I got to my LBS that just about always has me out the door in 15 minutes or less.

    I once made the mistake of going to one of their competitors to get a wheel trued, and ended up waiting almost two weeks after they forgot about my bike. When I called, they told me they would have it done that day. Of course, I showed up and it wasn't done. They just ended up doing it while I waited, which is what they could have done in the first place.
    There are a couple of practical issues I have run into with appointments. First, a non-zero amount of customers just don't bring their bike in when they're supposed to. That messes up our schedule. Second, people don't know what's wrong with their bike and what needs to get fixed. If I don't have a tech look at the bike before we schedule a service, I'm not sure I'm scheduling for the right service, I don't know if I've got the right parts - people who make appointments by definition don't want to wait, and I don't want them to have an expectation that we can only meet if they have properly diagnosed their bike.

    I've started taking appointments, but only if one of my techs has gone over the bike, and I take a 50% deposit that is non-refundable (store credit if they don't show up.)

    The people who are the most concerned with their time are often the ones who care the least about ours.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    "Look, I know they're asking a dollar for that orange, why do they have to get so cranky when I offer them seventy cents? Respect my offer!"

    "Look, I know the hamburger and fries is $10.99, but I really only want to pay 9 bucks. Respect my offer!"
    what are you saying?? If someone doesn't want to sell something for xx price, just turn it down. Are you suggesting such a vendor is justified in being offended? They certainly are not justified in being offended any differently than the consumer is being offended by typically high LBS prices. So much emotion over nothing. sheesh. Though I realize it might be a flaw in the culture here. There are so many other cultures which embrace and celebrate haggling, and that is a good thing imho. And they will indeed haggle over oranges and food. Would be so much nicer to have more haggling and eliminate all tipping - which is how it is done around most of the World.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    What exactly is your problem?
    You sure you want to know the answer to that question?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    ^That^

    If I need a part, I get on the phone with my shop and see if they can get it. Then I go pick it up a day or two later. It's still faster than buying online.
    especially in the USA, that is generally not faster than buying online. Not to mention the huge wasted time driving to the LBS, perhaps visiting multiple LBS, and then driving back days later to pick it up.

    Some things I've ordered on Amazon on a Sunday morning .. arrived at my door Sunday evening.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    what are you saying?? If someone doesn't want to sell something for xx price, just turn it down. Are you suggesting such a vendor is justified in being offended? They certainly are not justified in being offended any differently than the consumer is being offended by typically high LBS prices. So much emotion over nothing. sheesh. Though I realize it might be a flaw in the culture here. There are so many other cultures which embrace and celebrate haggling, and that is a good thing imho. And they will indeed haggle over oranges and food. Would be so much nicer to have more haggling and eliminate all tipping - which is how it is done around most of the World.
    Our prices aren't negotiable. When you try to negotiate, it's annoying. It's not offensive, we're not emotional about it, it's just not how we do things in our shop. Is there any reason you keep ascribing such emotion to other people?

    Yes, other cultures do things very differently, and they aren't inherently better or worse, they're just different. I wouldn't say it's a flaw in the culture any more than I'd say cultures that haggle are flawed. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with bike shops in the USA.

    "The price is a dollar"
    "I'll give you seventy cents"
    "The price is a dollar"
    "I'll give you eighty cents"
    "The price is a dollar"
    "I'll give you ninety cents"
    "The price is a dollar"
    "Why are you so emotional! Respect my offer!"

  24. #49
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    being annoyed .. is being emotional about it.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    being annoyed .. is being emotional about it.
    I mean, if that's all you meant by being emotional about it, then sure. Typically that phrase has other conotations, but I suppose yes, on the most technical level annoyance at your behavior is indeed a form of human emotion.

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