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  1. #1
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    Tour of Utah Ouch





    Sorry if this has already been posted
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    Holy crap. I didn't follow the race. Who crashed? Where they OK?
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    Holy crap. I didn't follow the race. Who crashed? Where they OK?
    His name is Matt Brammeier. Broken ribs and pelvis. It's amazing he even survived
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    I wonder if he had brake failure. It looks like he hardly slowed at all coming into the sharp turn.
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    car might have saved his life.... he was going for the cliff/trees otherwise

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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    car might have saved his life.... he was going for the cliff/trees otherwise
    ...I was thinking the same thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonB176 View Post
    I wonder if he had brake failure. It looks like he hardly slowed at all coming into the sharp turn.
    No he had brakes. Look closely as he enters the turn, he's braking so hard he's doing a front wheelie. He just braked too late.
    Watch the rest of the riders before him, all of them almost overshoot the turn. My guess is the turn wasn't obvious until they were right on top of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    No he had brakes. Look closely as he enters the turn, he's braking so hard he's doing a front wheelie. He just braked too late.
    Watch the rest of the riders before him, all of them almost overshoot the turn. My guess is the turn wasn't obvious until they were right on top of it.
    I was wondering why they looked like a bunch of amateurs going down hill, but that makes sense that the turn was unexpected, or at least the sharpness of the turn was.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

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    Another video from the perspective of one of the spectators standing on the curve looking up the road showed he had his brakes locked up pretty good. The back of his bike slid sideways prior to hitting the car. If I find it I'll post it...

    Matt Brammeier injured in high-speed crash at Utah - VeloNews.com

  10. #10
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    Here's another video from a different angle. It was an S-turn. Looks like there wasn't a whole lot of time to view and slow down for the 2nd turn.
    The guy who crashed was already out of control on the 1st turn. All the other riders pretty much followed the yellow line thru the turns. He blew right through the apex of the 1st turn.

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    ^^^that's the one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    car might have saved his life.... he was going for the cliff/trees otherwise

    Yeah, he was out of control. Who I feel sorry for are the other 2 cyclists that hit SAG vehicles that were stopped because of the first rider. They probably could have made the curve if not for the vehicles.

    I wonder if the UCI needs to make stricter rules about (SAG) vehicles in the middle of the peleton. Wasn't there another race recently where a motorcycle clipped the wheels of a cyclist and caused a crash?

    GH

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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    I was wondering why they looked like a bunch of amateurs going down hill, but that makes sense that the turn was unexpected, or at least the sharpness of the turn was.
    I am not a racer, but shouldn't riders make themselves (one way or another) aware of potentially dangerous portions of a course, especially in the mountains? Don't the teams scout out the stages beforehand? How could that turn be unexpected?

    Just trying to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patatty View Post
    I am not a racer, but shouldn't riders make themselves (one way or another) aware of potentially dangerous portions of a course, especially in the mountains? Don't the teams scout out the stages beforehand? How could that turn be unexpected?

    Just trying to understand.
    Yes of coarse the teams scout and have race information about each day's race route. Yet, it would be nearly impossible to remember every corner on every descent each day in a stage race such as this one.

    Racing is strange though. When you are trying to catch back to a wheel or group in order to save some energy you take a lot of chances. And that's true for those of us who aren't getting paid. These guys take huge chances all day long really to keep position to save energy in order to execute what ever the teams plan is.

    i think most who have no experience riding with these guys would be absolutely floored how amazing they are: not only their speed going up, but down and just the close quarters these guys keep in the peloton.

    Anywho, not making some lame excuse for this one as he FUBAR'd it about as much as anyone can. Just trying to put some perspective on how much skill these guys have even though we see **** up fragments like this and wonder WTF.

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    If only they had disc brakes.............

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upnorth View Post
    If only they had disc brakes.............
    If he had disc brakes, he'd probably be dead.
    Given that he was endo'ing, obviously his rim brake was strong enough. There just wasn't sufficient room/time. Having disc brakes would have given him the idea that he could go faster... push the envelop further. He probably would've hit the car at a greater speed.
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    In that second video it looks he comes out of the previous corner rather fast but also looks like he's working really hard to stop but might be sliding. The back wheel is all over the place. He is also on the shoulder of the road, might be just enough loose stuff there to make it impossible to really slow down.

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    I rode the Ultimate Challenge last Saturday which is the same course the pros rode later that day for Stage 6 of the Tour of Utah. The section of road where the crash happened is about 8 - 10% where it is easy to reach speeds of 50+ mph. There is a long right-hand curve prior to the switchback so you don't really see it coming until you are right on top of it. Additionally, the switchback is less than one mile after the summit of a 6 mile / 10 - 15% climb so I believe the rider was still transitioning to "very-slow-speed" mindset to "very-high-speed". It's easy to get into that situation quickly if we're not very careful.

    I'm glad to hear the rider is recovering and in good spirits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    If he had disc brakes, he'd probably be dead.
    Given that he was endo'ing, obviously his rim brake was strong enough. There just wasn't sufficient room/time. Having disc brakes would have given him the idea that he could go faster... push the envelop further. He probably would've hit the car at a greater speed.
    Agreed.

    I'm a big fan of disc brakes, but they don't make you a better rider. You still have to know when and how to brake properly.

    The only way discs could have helped this guy is if he could have used them effectively and got his weight behind the saddle. Discs would have allowed great modulation with one finger. He then could keep his weight back so his back end could stay controlled. I still think it would have been a long shot at best for him not to crash with discs. He would have had to have great handling skills like Peter Segan to pull it off.
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  20. #20
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    Can't the organisation put out some signs about the upcomming corner?
    They need to have known this was a point of attention?

  21. #21
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    The rider high-sided the turn and his rear wheel was off the ground. He was out of control when he hit the car.

    The latter stages of that descent were incredibly fast, there was a shot from a moto tracking Rosskopf that showed an indicated speed of 65MPH. Then Norris the Drapac rider caught him. Norris must have been pushing 70 which is incredibly fast, even in a pro race. Straight road, straight downhill, pro riders = insane speed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanders View Post
    Can't the organisation put out some signs about the upcomming corner?
    They need to have known this was a point of attention?
    You'd be putting signs on almost every corner. One issue is that the rider was likely pushing it because he was worrying about missing the time cut. Not sure what it was in this race (it's usually a percentage over the winning time) but he's off the back among the team cars, which is a dangerous time to be trying to make up time. This crash began at least in the corner before, which he came out of with way too much speed. Good to hear he was released from the hospital, which is pretty amazing. Too bad the motos stopped and blocked the road, causing the two other riders to crash. Too many vehicles on course these days.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    If he had disc brakes, he'd probably be dead.
    Given that he was endo'ing, obviously his rim brake was strong enough. There just wasn't sufficient room/time. Having disc brakes would have given him the idea that he could go faster... push the envelop further. He probably would've hit the car at a greater speed.
    i was being sarcastic, since everyone thinks disc's are the cats ass these days, except me. Of course disc's would not have saved this dude, he either needs new glasses or to use his brain to think with. If he would have missed that car he might have killed someone on the sideline and or himself on a tree.

    As for the other 2, race officials need to keep the support vehicles behind the riders not all mixed in, this is a nightmare during many races and needs to stop. Those other idiots on motorcycles need to go as well. They stop all over course and almost create more accidents than the cars.

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    Why did the motos stop right at the freakin braking zone??? The other two riders unnecessarily crashed because of the motos. Not a bright move those motos. Not well trained at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Agreed.

    I'm a big fan of disc brakes, but they don't make you a better rider. You still have to know when and how to brake properly.

    The only way discs could have helped this guy is if he could have used them effectively and got his weight behind the saddle. Discs would have allowed great modulation with one finger. He then could keep his weight back so his back end could stay controlled. I still think it would have been a long shot at best for him not to crash with discs. He would have had to have great handling skills like Peter Segan to pull it off.
    braking is done on the front, not the back. Watch motorcycle racing and you will see that the most effective bracking (in the dry) is when the rear wheel is just slightly off the ground. You weigh on the front, not the rear.

    The only thing that would have save this guy is a parachute. He rode above his skill level.

    On a bright note, I've read that he was release from the hospital and already back on the bike! So fortunately the injury was a lot less than the video portrays. Probably hairline fractures that will heal on their own.

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