• 04-28-2019
    TiCoyote
    Used with Discs or Used with Rims?
    I'm looking at two bikes. One is new with rim brakes and the other is 1-2 years old with disc brakes. Same price.

    The bikes also have carbon wheels, which makes more sense with disc brakes.

    I'm kind of opposed to discs though. It seems like more weight, less aero, more difficult to maintain.

    Plus, the new one would come with a warranty.

    Any thoughts?
  • 04-28-2019
    BCSaltchucker
    not enough info. it depends
  • 04-28-2019
    frdfandc
    Go with disc.

    Better braking, power and modulation. Especially with carbon wheels.

    Disc is faster. You can carry more speed into a turn, scrub speed faster, and carry that speed out of a turn.

    Weight is negligible. A little heavier, but most people can't tell the difference unless you are a gram counter.

    Disc are easy to maintain. No harder than rim IMHO.

    Disc will be on everything in a few years. Seeing disc on $500 hybrids and MTB's now. Won't be surprised when disc are on an entry level road bike within the next 2 years.

    My next road bike will be disc.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
  • 04-28-2019
    PBL450
    Hmmm.... A rim vs disc thread? Is TiCoyote trolling us?
  • 04-28-2019
    Devastazione
    Go with discs,take it from somebody that went back to rims because wanted to go back to the classic stuff. Classic stuff my @ss..
  • 04-28-2019
    cxwrench
    Disc.
  • 04-28-2019
    Alaska Mike
    For a bike I will want to keep and ride-
    • Hydraulic disc- depends on how nicely it rides otherwise. I have had some disc bikes that were absolute dogs. If the bike otherwise performs (braking aside) as you desire, sure, why not? I do appreciate the way hydraulic discs perform in the wet and other situations.
    • Mechanical disc- In Letterkenny parlance, hard no. They don't really offer any great advantage over a rim brake on aluminum wheels. Upgrading to hydraulic just defeats the purpose of going used, especially at the price point full hydraulic bikes run these days.
    • Rim brake- three out of the last four bikes I purchased in the last year were rim (all premium bikes on the used market), and the three I kept were the rim brake. It all came down to how well they rode, rather than how they stopped.


    Get the bike that makes you want to ride. 99.9% of bike purchases are losing investments. You're buying fun (however that manifests itself for you), so focus on that.
  • 04-28-2019
    TiCoyote
    To give more info:

    I'm looking at a Giant TCR Pro. I want Di2 on the bike. I can get a new Pro and then swap out the mechanical shifters and derailleurs, or I can get the Pro 0 Disc used, which already comes with Di2.

    Or, I could have gotten the Pro 0 Disc used, but someone bought it while I was still deciding.

    The way I see it, since the bike comes with carbon rims, Discs make more sense. With rim brakes, I'd rather have aluminum rims. Quieter wheels and smoother braking.

    Then I just saw this review, and they claim that the rim version is much livelier and smoother. https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...e-bike-review/
  • 04-28-2019
    bmach
    Seeing someone bought one of your 2 choices, I guess that narrows your choices.
  • 04-28-2019
    ogre
    Info not provided yet to give a good answer - Where do you live/what kind of terrain do you ride on? Do you ride in rain/snow much? How much do you weigh?
  • 04-28-2019
    aclinjury
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    Go with disc.

    Better braking, power and modulation. Especially with carbon wheels.

    Disc is faster. You can carry more speed into a turn, scrub speed faster, and carry that speed out of a turn.

    Weight is negligible. A little heavier, but most people can't tell the difference unless you are a gram counter.

    Disc are easy to maintain. No harder than rim IMHO.

    Disc will be on everything in a few years. Seeing disc on $500 hybrids and MTB's now. Won't be surprised when disc are on an entry level road bike within the next 2 years.

    My next road bike will be disc.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


    Ugh no. What you're describing is a late braking technique that is normally used with block-passing technique in a (motorcycle) race. In actualality, the best speed around a corner is never to dive into a corner and then scrub a bunch of speed off, because your legs are not motorcycle engine. MotoGP qualifying times has proven this (ie., nobody is late braking and then find themselves with faster lap times).

    In road racing, nobody is even doing this sort of stuff unless they wish to become the most unpopular guy in the peloton.
  • 04-29-2019
    Devastazione
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Ugh no. What you're describing is a late braking technique that is normally used with block-passing technique in a (motorcycle) race. In actualality, the best speed around a corner is never to dive into a corner and then scrub a bunch of speed off, because your legs are not motorcycle engine. MotoGP qualifying times has proven this (ie., nobody is late braking and then find themselves with faster lap times).

    In road racing, nobody is even doing this sort of stuff unless they wish to become the most unpopular guy in the peloton.


    Oh yeah...because we are all pros here,right :p ?
  • 04-29-2019
    Devastazione
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post

    Then I just saw this review, and they claim that the rim version is much livelier and smoother. https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...e-bike-review/

    I can confirm all of the above. I've owned a TCR Pro disc di2 and while it was a phenomenal bike at climbs and sharp turns it lacked life when quick jumps were needed,it felt a bit sleepy. That's one of the reason I've sold it and went back to calipers,I guess disc frames and groupsets still need another 2/3 years to be perfect. The other reason I've sold the bike for was the extremely racing geometry, my poor old body was getting hammered so bad.
    On the opposite tho having discs allowed me to reach downhill speeds I can only dream about with my calipers,and since no matter how much i ride or diet I keep getting heavier each and every year I look forward to go back to discs,at least I can have fun at dh'ing..
  • 04-29-2019
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    To give more info:

    I'm looking at a Giant TCR Pro. I want Di2 on the bike. I can get a new Pro and then swap out the mechanical shifters and derailleurs, or I can get the Pro 0 Disc used, which already comes with Di2.

    Or, I could have gotten the Pro 0 Disc used, but someone bought it while I was still deciding.

    The way I see it, since the bike comes with carbon rims, Discs make more sense. With rim brakes, I'd rather have aluminum rims. Quieter wheels and smoother braking.

    Then I just saw this review, and they claim that the rim version is much livelier and smoother. https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...e-bike-review/

    Used, as in first generation?

    But this TCR also has a bit of a first-generation-disc ride: somewhat harsh and choppy, and a little numb. After doing some detective work and parts swaps, we can assign at least some of the blame to the fork, which is less-compliant than the one on the TCR rim-brake frames.

    Harsh and choppy? Numb? :shocked: Forget it. Get the rim brake version. Guys who brake all the time aren't doing it right. :D
  • 04-29-2019
    rudge66
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Hmmm.... A rim vs disc thread? Is TiCoyote trolling us?

    No. Itís a appears to be a sincere query.

    And once again; Federico provides us sound wisdom and advice.
  • 04-29-2019
    BCSaltchucker
    disc opens up more options, for wheel types and tire sizes. and in some climate zones, terrain the discs will make life better. it's why I say 'it depends.' It depends on intended use, locations and climate you ride in, rain, steepness of the hills, etc.

    The way things are going in my riding I might be better off with something like a 3T Exploro, where the frame and disc brakes open up a ton of possibilities for riding other than just day rides with the roadies.

    But for now I am still very happy with my Ti bike with rim brakes - with break away frame being key (for air travel).
  • 04-29-2019
    TiCoyote
    Why would the disc brakes make the bike feel sluggish? It seems like the reviewer says that disc frames need to be somehow different to compensate for something. Is it because of the through-axles?

    I would assume the wheels have more to do with acceleration than the frame.
  • 04-29-2019
    Devastazione
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    Why would the disc brakes make the bike feel sluggish? It seems like the reviewer says that disc frames need to be somehow different to compensate for something. Is it because of the through-axles?

    I would assume the wheels have more to do with acceleration than the frame.

    Disc carbon frames need to be reinforced around the caliper bolting area in order to whitstand brakes generating forces, that means a whole lotta more carbon. Second point is we are just starting to see now real road disc brakes systems,but I would say 80% of them is still mtb stuff..that means heavy crap..
  • 04-29-2019
    TiCoyote
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    Disc carbon frames need to be reinforced around the caliper bolting area in order to whitstand brakes generating forces, that means a whole lotta more carbon. Second point is we are just starting to see now real road disc brakes systems,but I would say 80% of them is still mtb stuff..that means heavy crap..

    Thank you!
  • 04-29-2019
    tlg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    but I would say 80% of them is still mtb stuff..that means heavy crap..

    :rolleyes: You would say?

    BR-R8000 Rim Caliper weighs 182 g (Front), 178 g (Rear)

    BR-R8070-R Hydraulic Caliper weighs 138 g
  • 04-29-2019
    QuiQuaeQuod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    Is it because of the through-axles?

    I would assume the wheels have more to do with acceleration than the frame.

    Adding a rotor effectively adds mass to the wheel, and heavier wheel = more force to accelerate to a given speed.
  • 04-29-2019
    Devastazione
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    :rolleyes: You would say?

    BR-R8000 Rim Caliper weighs 182 g (Front), 178 g (Rear)

    BR-R8070-R Hydraulic Caliper weighs 138 g

    On a bike that weighs 6 kilos vs a bike that weighs 8 kilos and up that is still heavy crap..
  • 04-29-2019
    QuiQuaeQuod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devastazione View Post
    On a bike that weighs 6 kilos vs a bike that weighs 8 kilos and up that is still heavy crap..

    Forgoing all forms of brakes does save you weight. That is very true.
  • 04-29-2019
    Alaska Mike
    ..and again, if upon a meaningful test ride it doesn't make you giggle like a schoolgirl, keep looking. All the ink and 1s and 0s on the subject mean absolutely squat when you get right down to it. If the bike has enough jump for you and the riding you do, get it.
  • 04-29-2019
    aclinjury
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    :rolleyes: You would say?

    BR-R8000 Rim Caliper weighs 182 g (Front), 178 g (Rear)

    BR-R8070-R Hydraulic Caliper weighs 138 g


    you forgot the rotors:

    Gray, Centerlock 160mm 134g
    Gray, Centerlock 140mm 105g

    Ultegra SM-RT800 Disc Rotor