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  1. #26
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    I think it would be great if E-bikes got cheap enough to encourage more people to commute more often by bike. An electric grocery hauler for around $1k could be a game changer for people that aren't yet in the best of shape.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    One thing that is nearly certain in the next decade is automated electronic shifting, interfacing with a cell phone app, using topographic information and GPS to shift automatically depending on your speed, cadence, and incline.
    That would drive me absolutely nuts. The legs would protest constantly. A bike is a perfect man-machine. Why turn over control to a computer?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jta View Post
    Wow. There's your innovation. The Scandinavians take bike safety seriously. If they offer a model that looks like a Viking helmet when inflated, sign me up.
    They put covers on helmets a while back and riders broke their necks. The helmet would stick to the tarmac while it should have been sliding. A windbag helmet would have to keep the head and shoulders aligned in a crash. I'd be skeptical the example QQQ linked would always work that way.

    At cycling speeds, knowing how to fall is probably the most effective way of minimizing serious injury. The helmet is to absorb head shocks, that's it. The rest of the body is pliable and capable of absorbing shocks on its own.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    It was a true revelation when I ditched the Sturmey-Archered gentleman's bike got a properly derailleur-ed 10 speed racing bike. It didn't matter it had the cheapest Huret shifter and would ooch itself into rattle-land whenever I went over a bump. A bit of on-board fine-tuning and the rattling would disappear. On a musical note, the rattle would always be more trebly in pitch when the chain was off-center toward the larger cog than toward the smaller one.
    A bit of onboard tuning, like slightly tightening the wing screw on the shifter to hold the chain in gear?

    Shifting by ear? Like fine tuning the lever until the chain noise goes away? And if it doesn't go away, you know the chain needs to probably be replaced soon?

    That's riding the bike by feel. Click shifting took the feel away. The detents in the shifters wear out and at a certain point way before the bike wears out, there's no longer onboard fine tuning. Bummer.

    Down tube friction shifters on two bikes, each with about 75,000 miles. The shifters are original. They work as good today as they did the day I bought the bike. Bought an extra pair 20 years ago just in case. Have yet to use them.

    As far as weight: Steel gives excellent response and absorbs shock well, but is strong enough not to bend up in a fall, and will hold up for many years. Steel used to serve a weight penalty of a few pounds. They weighed 20-23 pounds. Gravel bikes are coming out with those exact weights, so steel no longer has a weight penalty.

    A dedicated rider quickly gets fit enough to ride a 20-23 # bike, including climbing, with relative ease. That's why racers stopped gearing below 42-21. They trained up not to need lower gears. Riders today think 39-21 is too big and can't climb well. Two years later, they find it a piece of cake.

    Chain drives may be messy and vulnerable to a certain extent, but they're amazingly efficient transferring energy and easily shift across the cogs. 6 speed friction shifting is fault free. The cables break at the shifter, just like STIs do, but rider feels it and can see it, and it takes two minutes to replace the cable. Check the stop screws, take the slack out of the cable, and go. Nothing to lose synch except the legs, the whole point of ridng a bike.

    Aside from racing, 6 gears in back and 2 in front are more than enough gearing to ride anywhere on paved roads. 32 spoked wheels are still the strongest and most serviceable, same with cup and cone bearings.

    Cup and cone threaded BBs are still the best. I've never had to replace the two on my bikes. They just go and go, smooth as silk, as solid as the bike.

    Most all the changes I've witnessed since the late '70s have all had trade offs, so I hesitate to call them "better." Gravel bikes seem to be a return to basics, like the old steel bikes of the '80s.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 6 Days Ago at 10:35 PM.

  5. #30
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    Lumos helmets have lights now built into their helmets, including turn signals with a wireless switch.

    https://lumoshelmet.co/

    I also think that lighting will become more integrated within framesets. Trek already has such an animal with their Crossrip.

    And the future? One word. Graphene.


  6. #31
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    Ah, lights! The ongoing electronification of two wheeled transportation. Speed and power sensors, electronic shifting, all quantified for the rider's attention. And, when tasting the lust for power, an electric motor!

    Everything connected by blue tooth to rider's phone, which he carries with him at all times. It answers all his questions, shows him the route to anywhere he wants to go, monitors how he's doing, and gives him his e mails.

    What the hell fun is that?

    So there are now helmets with blinking directional signals? They make them distinguishable by color? What if the follower is colorblind? I'd prefer to stick reflective tape on jacket sleeves and signal with my arms. Drivers have no problem reading outstretched arms. Put an LED on a left and right finger, to add to the effect.

    Anyway signaling intentions from a bike is a chancy proposition. Better to just make the move. A light on the bike will show everyone where you're at.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 6 Days Ago at 11:19 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    A bit of onboard tuning, like slightly tightening the wing screw on the shifter to hold the chain in gear?

    Shifting by ear? Like fine tuning the lever until the chain noise goes away? And if it doesn't go away, you know the chain needs to probably be replaced soon?

    That's riding the bike by feel. Click shifting took the feel away. The detents in the shifters wear out and at a certain point way before the bike wears out, there's no longer onboard fine tuning. Bummer.

    Down tube friction shifters on two bikes, each with about 75,000 miles. The shifters are original. They work as good today as they did the day I bought the bike. Bought an extra pair 20 years ago just in case. Have yet to use them.

    As far as weight: Steel gives excellent response and absorbs shock well, but is strong enough not to bend up in a fall, and will hold up for many years. Steel used to serve a weight penalty of a few pounds. They weighed 20-23 pounds. Gravel bikes are coming out with those exact weights, so steel no longer has a weight penalty.

    A dedicated rider quickly gets fit enough to ride a 20-23 # bike, including climbing, with relative ease. That's why racers stopped gearing below 42-21. They trained up not to need lower gears. Riders today think 39-21 is too big and can't climb well. Two years later, they find it a piece of cake.

    Chain drives may be messy and vulnerable to a certain extent, but they're amazingly efficient transferring energy and easily shift across the cogs. 6 speed friction shifting is fault free. The cables break at the shifter, just like STIs do, but rider feels it and can see it, and it takes two minutes to replace the cable. Check the stop screws, take the slack out of the cable, and go. Nothing to lose synch except the legs, the whole point of ridng a bike.

    Aside from racing, 6 gears in back and 2 in front are more than enough gearing to ride anywhere on paved roads. 32 spoked wheels are still the strongest and most serviceable, same with cup and cone bearings.

    Cup and cone threaded BBs are still the best. I've never had to replace the two on my bikes. They just go and go, smooth as silk, as solid as the bike.

    Most all the changes I've witnessed since the late '70s have all had trade offs, so I hesitate to call them "better." Gravel bikes seem to be a return to basics, like the old steel bikes of the '80s.
    I really disagree Fred but always enjoy your perspective anyway. You are simply immersed in the old school camp and reading what you write on bike tech is always looking through a window into the past that I grew up with. So I appreciate the nostalgic look at bicycles of yesterday but I take it for what it is. We are likely not too far apart in age and of course I grew up riding friction shifting narrow tube steel bikes with sew ups and a lot of spokes.

    Bikes today are superior in just about every regard. After about 7 years, I just bought a new race bike with Di2. No disc brakes tho as I live in flat country. I waited for Shimano's second gen of Di2 and worth the wait. It shifts better than my Campy bikes. Like driving a F1 car. New bike technology...is just astounding it is so much better than the old bikes in 'every' regard. They are profoundly different.
    Weight is a big factor, stiffness where you want it...gearing you mentioned, handling is night and day, aerodynamics and a big factor for me as an aging rider with fussier body to riding position, ergonomics...seat comfort and handlebar/shifter ergonomics/comfort...a big difference. Pedal and shoe tech is much better today than any time in the past. Speedplays with more rearward cleat position are my pedal of choice.

    So we pretty strongly disagree on the subject. Really no different than comparing a 69 Z28 Camaro to a new SS Camaro. Night and day.

    Other thing at play comparing old versus new is, the riders themselves. A lot of old guys stuck in the past, have lost their mojo. They don't care about performance riding so much anymore. Not me. I am pretty ageless on the bike. I want to ride fast and I seek the fastest riders to ride with. If they can drop me, they are welcome but I am not easy to drop. I can hang with strong younger riders. Part of that is tech and just knowing how to ride after decades of training but I have stayed fit over the years. I don't want to attempt performance riding on an inferior bike. I want the latest in technology because that is what most contemporary riders are on as well.

    All the fast old guys I ride with are on the latest bikes...the very fastest high end bikes. TdF level bikes. Some may have Ultegra but they are all carbon, many are aero bikes and most have deep carbon wheels. They are featherlight. They ride slammed. These are old guys that can flat ride. All the top race bikes, Pinarello Dogmas, TCR's, Madones, SL6 Tarmacs, Canyon aero... the best race bikes on the planet. Ex racers. All came off old tech bikes they grew up with and embrace the new tech for its obvious advantage. So not all old guys are stuck in a time warp. Some understand that the new bikes are faster and take less energy to propel which matters after hammering 30 miles in an A group ride with Cat racers trying to drop everybody.

    At the end of the day, people believe what they like. I find many older people are stuck in the past adhering to old conventions. The brain becomes intransigent in thinking. The new stuff is a lot better than the old stuff in every conceivable way including bar tape.
    Last edited by 11spd; 6 Days Ago at 02:07 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-t View Post
    I think it would be great if E-bikes got cheap enough to encourage more people to commute more often by bike. An electric grocery hauler for around $1k could be a game changer for people that aren't yet in the best of shape.
    I believe that will happen. An e-bike is likely in my future as an adjunct to my racing and touring bikes. Of course, I will want a drop bar e-bike with big performance like Lennard Zinn rides. I am looking at 5 to 10 years from now. Motors are becoming more integral into lighter racing bikes. Going to be fun riding future even as I get well into my 70's having supplemental power. Many believe motors on bicycle are the boogie man but to me, it just makes sense if you want to ride longer and faster.

    E-bikes are where technology is really going to shine as they become lighter and can go farther distances which is already happening and will continue to.

    Having near 30mph capability with a 500W motor is pretty sweet in particular as e-bikes get lighter with a range of over 50 miles or so which is enough for most of us. After about 50 miles riding, I am ready to get off and do something else.

    I also suspect with time, you will see e-bike riding clubs. Some may even have a performance orientation. Older riders that have lost their performance edge but who still like to ride fast in groups. Perhaps doing longer riders with supplemental power but at a good rate of speed.

    No they won't wear eye patches and dress like Pirates with a lot of tatoos, nor will their bikes be large, heavy and loud and chromed, but rather they will look equally funny as old guys in Spandex riding skinny tired bikes that move along mostly at the sound of whirling wheels which for guys like us is music.
    Last edited by 11spd; 6 Days Ago at 02:02 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I'd be skeptical the example QQQ linked would always work that way.
    Feel free to look at the videos and research on that link, or other research if you like. In a quick search, I found no tests on torsional forces (as you are talking about), though I did find a Stanford prof saying it was "likely" to work well for torsional forces. Because it is very big and very soft compared to conventional helmets. And since it is not attached to your head, but around your head, I think it would work well. Sort of like a current MIPS with extra freedom of movement between helmet and head.

    However, I think it is designed more for commuting speeds than for racing speeds. So maybe there would be an issue. I am in no hurry to black market one, that's for sure.

    Keep in mind I did not say the hovding was the bees knees. But rather that things LIKE THAT will be big in the future. Airbags, perhaps some sort of reactive material using other technology. The hovding is first out of the box, so it is for all its sophistication, a crude version of what will follow.

    BTW, there are also airbag belts that protect hips during a fall. For the elderly is how they are being marketed. Just learned that now, when looking for other airbag protection products. This stuff is coming.
    .
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Automatic transmissions for bikes? No thank you. I still enjoy driving a manual transmission car, but those are going the way of the dodo.
    Ditto

    I enjoy choosing my own gears in my car and on my bike.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    E-bikes are where technology is really going to shine as they become lighter and can go farther distances which is already happening and will continue to.
    I'm already seeing them marketed to elk hunters around here and a friend and I have kicked around the idea of using/renting e-fat bikes to access a couple backcountry ski areas. It woulds shave hours off the flat approaches without the hassle of using a snowmobile.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    This type of thing could be either very useful, or data/technology overload...

    https://www.quarq.com/tire-pressure-...0w5r1ixurg4kaq
    But but but....don't we all need to constantly know our exact tire pressure??? Don't we all also wash our hands until they bleed??? Isn't this normal behavior??

  13. #38
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    I recall a couple of decades ago, there was talk of creating beryllium bike frames. I guess the rarity of the element, cost and hazards involved building frames, along with domination of carbon fiber did beryllium in. I seem to remember a company called Beyond Fabrication selling an alloy frame with beryllium in it.

  14. #39
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    The most famous company to do Byrillium was American...and it ended shady/questionable at best.

  15. #40
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    Continued evolution of disc brakes with less and less options for rim brakes. More ride improvement devices like Treks ISO Decoupler. Wider tires standard than now and lighter or better quality wheels especially at the mid and economic level of road bikes. Eventually cheaper and greater availability of options for electronic shifting.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    This type of thing could be either very useful, or data/technology overload...

    https://www.quarq.com/tire-pressure-...0w5r1ixurg4kaq
    oh please, it's seriously unnecessary and unneeded....

    most days, I simply do a 'thumb check' for for tire pressure and pump up about once a week...
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    But but but....don't we all need to constantly know our exact tire pressure??? Don't we all also wash our hands until they bleed??? Isn't this normal behavior??
    Have you had your required 8 full glasses of water today? You seem cranky. Like you only had 6. Or maybe 11.

  18. #43
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    Shux, just get one of these and ride a bicycle from the comfort of the sofa in the living room.

    What is the future of bike technology and design? Diminishing returns?-board-game.jpg
    Too old to ride plastic

  19. #44
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    for me, the bike didn't get any better after around 1980. i pick that year, because of the 6-speed and bottle bosses.

    i just finished two resto-mods from 1987. today was the first time i rode them. i'm glad i put non-aero brake levers on both, even though at least one (a schwinn circuit) originally had aeros. but, they just look better the "old" way.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    I really disagree Fred but always enjoy your perspective anyway. You are simply immersed in the old school camp and reading what you write on bike tech is always looking through a window into the past that I grew up with. So I appreciate the nostalgic look at bicycles of yesterday but I take it for what it is. We are likely not too far apart in age and of course I grew up riding friction shifting narrow tube steel bikes with sew ups and a lot of spokes.

    Bikes today are superior in just about every regard. After about 7 years, I just bought a new race bike with Di2. No disc brakes tho as I live in flat country. I waited for Shimano's second gen of Di2 and worth the wait. It shifts better than my Campy bikes. Like driving a F1 car. New bike technology...is just astounding it is so much better than the old bikes in 'every' regard. They are profoundly different.
    Weight is a big factor, stiffness where you want it...gearing you mentioned, handling is night and day, aerodynamics and a big factor for me as an aging rider with fussier body to riding position, ergonomics...seat comfort and handlebar/shifter ergonomics/comfort...a big difference. Pedal and shoe tech is much better today than any time in the past. Speedplays with more rearward cleat position are my pedal of choice.

    So we pretty strongly disagree on the subject. Really no different than comparing a 69 Z28 Camaro to a new SS Camaro. Night and day.

    Other thing at play comparing old versus new is, the riders themselves. A lot of old guys stuck in the past, have lost their mojo. They don't care about performance riding so much anymore. Not me. I am pretty ageless on the bike. I want to ride fast and I seek the fastest riders to ride with. If they can drop me, they are welcome but I am not easy to drop. I can hang with strong younger riders. Part of that is tech and just knowing how to ride after decades of training but I have stayed fit over the years. I don't want to attempt performance riding on an inferior bike. I want the latest in technology because that is what most contemporary riders are on as well.

    All the fast old guys I ride with are on the latest bikes...the very fastest high end bikes. TdF level bikes. Some may have Ultegra but they are all carbon, many are aero bikes and most have deep carbon wheels. They are featherlight. They ride slammed. These are old guys that can flat ride. All the top race bikes, Pinarello Dogmas, TCR's, Madones, SL6 Tarmacs, Canyon aero... the best race bikes on the planet. Ex racers. All came off old tech bikes they grew up with and embrace the new tech for its obvious advantage. So not all old guys are stuck in a time warp. Some understand that the new bikes are faster and take less energy to propel which matters after hammering 30 miles in an A group ride with Cat racers trying to drop everybody.

    At the end of the day, people believe what they like. I find many older people are stuck in the past adhering to old conventions. The brain becomes intransigent in thinking. The new stuff is a lot better than the old stuff in every conceivable way including bar tape.
    Sure, ok, if you're competitive and love riding hard, the latest equipment in a must. There's still a substantial niche market for steel frames, like the ones made in the '80s. Some of us aren't interested in competing much. We just wanna have a nice ride, smell the roses, and attack a few hills. So what I got from the '80s works just great, responsive, comfortable, a magic carpet ride, crashworthy, half way through its useful life, good for another 75,000 miles. Most riders would be sick and tired of a bike after 50,000 miles. I was just getting used to it, if its a great bike, that is. We're talking Ferrari, man. The old Camaro Z28s handled like crap.

    No argument that bikes are faster today. And you're right, I have no desire to have the latest stuff as I don't feel handicapped when riding with others, just a bit slower due to my own age and the slightly heavier bike. And then I smile when gravel bikes are the latest rage and realize, hey, that's what I got!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    This type of thing could be either very useful, or data/technology overload...

    https://www.quarq.com/tire-pressure-...0w5r1ixurg4kaq
    Interesting concept, but unnecessary.......unless you're a tech geek and need to spend some moldy money.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Sure, ok, if you're competitive and love riding hard, the latest equipment in a must. There's still a substantial niche market for steel frames, like the ones made in the '80s. Some of us aren't interested in competing much. We just wanna have a nice ride, smell the roses, and attack a few hills. So what I got from the '80s works just great, responsive, comfortable, a magic carpet ride, crashworthy, half way through its useful life, good for another 75,000 miles. Most riders would be sick and tired of a bike after 50,000 miles. I was just getting used to it, if its a great bike, that is. We're talking Ferrari, man. The old Camaro Z28s handled like crap.

    No argument that bikes are faster today. And you're right, I have no desire to have the latest stuff as I don't feel handicapped when riding with others, just a bit slower due to my own age and the slightly heavier bike. And then I smile when gravel bikes are the latest rage and realize, hey, that's what I got!
    Just to be clear. You represent the outlier faction of liking vintage bikes. Certainly nothing wrong with that. Many people like old cars and collect them. Newer stuff is much better. A new SS Camaro can out accelerate and handle any old Ferrari and be much more reliable in the process and far ergonomically superior. Better in every respect including fuel economy and emission control. A common modern muscle car is superior to the pinnacle of a racing car barely streetable 30 years ago in 'every respect' other than fanciful reflection of a bygone era where presumably many of your memories...and mine are rooted. Difference between you and me is I embrace the new stuff. I don't cling to the old stuff with lower performance level. I like to ride fast and the most efficiently.

    Other older riders like you who may even be less performance oriented, many 16mph MUP riders who are returning to the sport...they go down to their local bike shop and purchase the latest carbon bike, not finding a vintage bike.
    Many have their vintage bikes hanging over the fireplace at their cottage.

    Just to be clear your voice is in the vast minority. The new bikes are quite special in every respect in spite of old loyalists to bikes of a time past.
    Last edited by 11spd; 5 Days Ago at 06:10 AM.

  23. #48
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    with all the "evolution" going on, it seems like all the bigs are converging in design in aero frames. Go figure. lol

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    The old Camaro Z28s handled like crap.
    that's why it makes sense to "refurbish" instead of "restore."

    when you refurbish or build a modded restoration, you can update or upgrade suspension (in the case of the camaro) and brakes. so you can take that original bike (or sports car) and make it "better than new."

    there's a place for the camaro. i enjoyed my '67 rs. but i prefer porsche. "there is no substitute."
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  25. #50
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    Bikes will pedal for you.

    I'm only half joking. Seems like E-bikes will continue to gain market share much to my consternation. See more and more bikes built around less effort. More compact sets, bigger gears in the back, assist motors

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