Why all the fuss about lightweight/aero?
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  1. #1
    Zaphod Beeblebrox
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    Why all the fuss about lightweight/aero?

    I'm relatively new here and the more posts I read about people wasting money on Zipp wheels and all the ultra lightweight parts the more I'm glad I just enjoy riding my bike. It seems that most people looking at this stuff try to back up their decisions with simulation software without having any idea what they are putting into it. What really irks me is most of these people think that a new wheelset is going to drastically improve their race results or even more pathetically the time it takes to get from point A to point B while riding by themselves in a non-competetive bike ride. I ride a modest Waterford that I built up 8 or 9 years ago with Ultegra and other good quality parts. I built the wheels with Campy Moskva (sp?) 32 hole rims and my race wheels are DT Hugi hubs laced to Fir box section tubular rims. I'm still getting back into shape after a few year hiatus off the bike but I can hang with a lot of the local pros on group rides and mix it up in the sprints. I don't have to worry about my lightweight wheelset coming unglued because a ride on new roads runs across a gravel road for a few miles, in fact I haven't had a need to even true my wheels since I built them. The way I look at things is that the only way to make yourself significantly faster is to spent some more time on the bike training. Push yourself to the edge and then push just a little bit harder. Take the time to condition your mind to not give up before your body does. Granted, some people have more natural talent than others combined with a higher threshold of pain but the difference a $10k bike will give you does not make up for a lack of peak fitness. I'm not in any way bashing the equipment and technology that are out there, I'm an engineer, equipment technology pays my salary. If I had some spare cash for some Zipps I'd probably buy a pair and use them as race only wheels saving the heavy box section wheels for training on. Sorry for the rant but I've been innundated with people b*tching about high gas prices while driving their 10mpg SUVs and read a few posts today that obviously have more money than they know what to do with combined with some financial woes of my own and it made me realize that I'm just glad I enjoy riding my simple but durable bike.

  2. #2
    Man, I'm Awesome
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    I agree. Some people just like to buy stuff though. I used to be that way when I first started. But after you mature in the sport a little, you realize the bike is actually secondary to the experience of being out there. Then you get a lugged steel frame with DT shifters.
    "I like to ride my bicycle." - Lance Armstrong -

  3. #3
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    Most of what you say is certainly true. For most of us, all the equipment in the world wont make us fast. But dont let it irk you. This whole thing is fun for all of us on some level. Some folks have the means to buy the crazy stuff, more power to them. I think it is great.

    I cant afford it and know it wouldnt do much for me since I dont race anyway but I like that other people can buy it because then I get to see it and talk about it. Its just fun.

  4. #4

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    It never stops

    What I don't get is why the two of you are that concerned about how people spend THEIR money. Perhaps these individuals are doing it for nothing more than self serving reasons.
    Why not just have one type of bike, components, wheel set, saddle set up etc. This way we can all be the same in your glorious litte part of the world. Their are different pieces of equipment to help ease the pain of riding over less than ideal road surfaces (I'm sure in your two worlds the asphault is perfect). I enjoy time trialing as well as recreational riding and some road racing. While some equipment is worth the money, some is not. If you don't like it, YOU don't have to buy it. So please do us all a favor and just stick to riding your machine and let us spend our hard earned dollars, euros, yen, rubles rupees as we deem necessary!

  5. #5
    Yo no fui.
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    I believe it was Keith Bontrager who said that when you really get into a ride, the bike disappears. Ironic, I suppose, that the bike is essentially a ruse in cycling. We all know speed and skill makes you fatser to a fra greater extend than the bike. Nevertheless, why not splurge on something you love?
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by farawayrider
    What I don't get is why the two of you are that concerned about how people spend THEIR money. Perhaps these individuals are doing it for nothing more than self serving reasons.
    Why not just have one type of bike, components, wheel set, saddle set up etc. This way we can all be the same in your glorious litte part of the world. Their are different pieces of equipment to help ease the pain of riding over less than ideal road surfaces (I'm sure in your two worlds the asphault is perfect). I enjoy time trialing as well as recreational riding and some road racing. While some equipment is worth the money, some is not. If you don't like it, YOU don't have to buy it. So please do us all a favor and just stick to riding your machine and let us spend our hard earned dollars, euros, yen, rubles rupees as we deem necessary!
    well said!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by farawayrider
    What I don't get is why the two of you are that concerned about how people spend THEIR money. Perhaps these individuals are doing it for nothing more than self serving reasons.
    Why not just have one type of bike, components, wheel set, saddle set up etc. This way we can all be the same in your glorious litte part of the world. Their are different pieces of equipment to help ease the pain of riding over less than ideal road surfaces (I'm sure in your two worlds the asphault is perfect). I enjoy time trialing as well as recreational riding and some road racing. While some equipment is worth the money, some is not. If you don't like it, YOU don't have to buy it. So please do us all a favor and just stick to riding your machine and let us spend our hard earned dollars, euros, yen, rubles rupees as we deem necessary!
    Why so defensive? There is a lot of attitude that comes from some of the more blinged out riders. I see it a lot and it is kind of annoying sometimes, it is not like people are quiet about their purchases, so why should he not be entitled to complain about having to hear every Fred talking about how they are riding 2mph faster on their new Zipps? I think there are several types of people that care about the equipment:

    1. The technophiles: they want Lew racing wheels because boron is the hottest thing. Or they just like the challenge of getting their bike under 10 pounds.

    2. The blingers: big CF weave and 90mm deep wheels and damn the crosswinds!

    3. The actually good racer: seconds actually count for him

    4. The wannabe: a lot of those around who buy expensive wheels or handlebars and think it makes them faster.

    I'll admit I am a bit of a mix of 1 and 4. I recognize that all that fancy stuff isn't really going to change the fact that I will get dropped by the guys in better shape, but I kind of just like the pure gadgetry of it for racing. Around town, I ride my fixie, and frankly have a very different take on kitting that out.

    Miyata 1000

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcg
    I agree. Some people just like to buy stuff though. I used to be that way when I first started. But after you mature in the sport a little, you realize the bike is actually secondary to the experience of being out there. Then you get a lugged steel frame with DT shifters.
    I'll agree about the steel frame, but I'm keeping my brifters.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  9. #9
    Seat's not level
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    Folks have money and can spend it on whatever they want. If it makes them happy, the it's none of your business. (Ain't the US grand!) You don't have the money and are getting upset that you can't afford the toys that others are spending their money on. Get over it. Complaining about folks that can afford buy nice bikes, nice cars and the gas to go with them doen't do squat. Seems like petty jealousy from your end.

  10. #10
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    If someone has the financial means, who cares?

    It’s no different than any other sport….

    The world is filled with people that have too much equipment for their abilities/needs…

    There is a lot of trickle down technology this is available today because some guy is spending his hard earned dollars on Zipp Wheels and other high end parts…

    I have more important things to worry about than if some guy is riding a bike beyond his needs and/or abilities...
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    I have more important things to worry about than if some guy is riding a bike beyond his needs and/or abilities...
    Dave, It's nice to know you aren't worrying about me Have a great weekend.

  12. #12
    Devoid of all flim-flam
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    I've been riding road bikes since 1972, and I just so happen to still have two of the bicycles I rode during the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties. Lugged steel, tubulars, five-speed downtube-shifted drive trains, etc. etc. I ride them all the time. And let me tell you, I am so much faster and more comfortable on my 2006 carbon-fibered ten-speed briftered bike it's nothin' funny. Everybody I ride with notices how faster I am with the new bike. Everybody I ride with notices how much slower I am on the older bikes.

    What's more, because the modern bike is so much faster and more comfortable, I'm able to traverse much greater distances before wanting to call it quits. Statistics and scientific studies may be wonderful things, but when it's your sit bones atop that saddle and your feet pressing the pedals statistics and studies become meaningless. The proof is in the riding, not in the spreadsheets.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  13. #13
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
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    believe me, I wrote the book on riding bikes that are beyond my abilities....

    You have a good one too
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianmcg
    I agree. Some people just like to buy stuff though. I used to be that way when I first started. But after you mature in the sport a little, you realize the bike is actually secondary to the experience of being out there. Then you get a lugged steel frame with DT shifters.
    Ugh. I rode a mid 80's lugged steel bike with DT shifters and traps for pedals for a long time - too long. When I finally replaced that with a late 90's Colnago Tecnos with lighter weight everything and Campy Chorus, I kicked myself for not making a change years earlier. That Colnago is still the sweetest ride I ever had (sniff, sniff - it was destroyed by a car incident). I feel no desire to go back to DT shifters. Lightweight wheels are one of the best upgrades I can think of, as it also completely changes the feel of the ride for the better IMO.

    It's a free country. I don't fault anyone for relishing in their bling-bling. If the money being spent is a problem for you, there are smart alternatives for that. Ebay is your friend. My secret to thrifty upgrades is to build up my own bikes. My latest involved a Fuji Pro frame for $200, a Bontrager Race XXX lite carbon crank for $180, and various other parts acquired from swap meets or that I already had, leading to a pretty sweet ride for less than $1000. I have NEVER paid retail for my Campy parts. An all said, it's way better than my lugged steel bike. But, to each his own ...

  15. #15
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    If I could I would definately get a cervelo frame and some zipp wheels, maybe a dura ace gruppo, but becoming a better rider definately makes more difference in my speed. On the group rides I go to, there are about a dozen people riding orcas, madones, roubaix, tarmacs, etc and then there is me on aluminum/steel, another guy on 20 y/o steel, and another guy on 15 y/o steel with downtube shifters. We're the three best riders with the three worst bikes. I'm sure if we had nice stuff we'd be better, but not much.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLMKA
    I'm relatively new here and the more posts I read about people wasting money on Zipp wheels and all the ultra lightweight parts the more I'm glad I just enjoy riding my bike. It seems that most people looking at this stuff try to back up their decisions with simulation software without having any idea what they are putting into it. What really irks me is most of these people think that a new wheelset is going to drastically improve their race results or even more pathetically the time it takes to get from point A to point B while riding by themselves in a non-competetive bike ride. I ride a modest Waterford that I built up 8 or 9 years ago with Ultegra and other good quality parts. I built the wheels with Campy Moskva (sp?) 32 hole rims and my race wheels are DT Hugi hubs laced to Fir box section tubular rims. I'm still getting back into shape after a few year hiatus off the bike but I can hang with a lot of the local pros on group rides and mix it up in the sprints. I don't have to worry about my lightweight wheelset coming unglued because a ride on new roads runs across a gravel road for a few miles, in fact I haven't had a need to even true my wheels since I built them. The way I look at things is that the only way to make yourself significantly faster is to spent some more time on the bike training. Push yourself to the edge and then push just a little bit harder. Take the time to condition your mind to not give up before your body does. Granted, some people have more natural talent than others combined with a higher threshold of pain but the difference a $10k bike will give you does not make up for a lack of peak fitness. I'm not in any way bashing the equipment and technology that are out there, I'm an engineer, equipment technology pays my salary. If I had some spare cash for some Zipps I'd probably buy a pair and use them as race only wheels saving the heavy box section wheels for training on. Sorry for the rant but I've been innundated with people b*tching about high gas prices while driving their 10mpg SUVs and read a few posts today that obviously have more money than they know what to do with combined with some financial woes of my own and it made me realize that I'm just glad I enjoy riding my simple but durable bike.
    I can agree somewhat, but your generalization overlooks a large number of us that know the minimal or non-existant gains that come with such equipment. Some of us buy the aero stuff for the small gain, and some of us do the weight weenie thing for the intellectual exercise involved in putting together a lightweight, everyday rideable bike.

    I really don't get the way people get worked up over what other people buy. When I see others riding, I don't think anything about why they ride what they do. I could really care less.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hickey
    believe me, I wrote the book on riding bikes that are beyond my abilities....

    You have a good one too
    Dave, Are you planning any expensive upgrades to any of your rides? I'm thinking of dropping $300 on some of the flat carbon bars. Don't know if they will be any more comfortable or not.

    Also thought I might pick up some new wheels just as spares. I broke a spoke a few years ago and might as get a spare pair. Guess I can put a different color of tires on them to match my yersey of the day.

    I have a friend that would really PO the OP. $7Kcustom carbon bike. Rides it probably 500 miles a year. Also has 2 cars and a big house that he doesn't live in most of the time.

  18. #18
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    There's always this-- I ride a sub 13lb bike- making the bike lighter became a hobby- an expensive one. It makes me want to ride more and more. Now I just look at the bike and I want to go ride. I'm not a snob- one day out on a solo ride I caught up to a guy riding from miami, FL to portland, ME- fully loaded. I rode w/ him (very slowly) for about 5 miles just to give him some company and check out the awesome co-motion loaded touring bike he was on-- I really dont care what you're riding, as long as you're riding it. And I dont have tons of money to burn, I work extra jobs and sold off my cd collection to pay for a lot of the stuff I have on my bike--but here's the real kicker--

    I really dont give 2 sh-t's about what you think because I'm happy and in the best shape of my life riding my light ass bike. If you're so upset, maybe you should go get on your bike and ride some more. You'll feel better.

  19. #19
    bas
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    Dan?


    Quote Originally Posted by DLMKA
    I'm relatively new here and the more posts I read about people wasting money on Zipp wheels and all the ultra lightweight parts the more I'm glad I just enjoy riding my bike. It seems that most people looking at this stuff try to back up their decisions with simulation software without having any idea what they are putting into it. What really irks me is most of these people think that a new wheelset is going to drastically improve their race results or even more pathetically the time it takes to get from point A to point B while riding by themselves in a non-competetive bike ride. I ride a modest Waterford that I built up 8 or 9 years ago with Ultegra and other good quality parts. I built the wheels with Campy Moskva (sp?) 32 hole rims and my race wheels are DT Hugi hubs laced to Fir box section tubular rims. I'm still getting back into shape after a few year hiatus off the bike but I can hang with a lot of the local pros on group rides and mix it up in the sprints. I don't have to worry about my lightweight wheelset coming unglued because a ride on new roads runs across a gravel road for a few miles, in fact I haven't had a need to even true my wheels since I built them. The way I look at things is that the only way to make yourself significantly faster is to spent some more time on the bike training. Push yourself to the edge and then push just a little bit harder. Take the time to condition your mind to not give up before your body does. Granted, some people have more natural talent than others combined with a higher threshold of pain but the difference a $10k bike will give you does not make up for a lack of peak fitness. I'm not in any way bashing the equipment and technology that are out there, I'm an engineer, equipment technology pays my salary. If I had some spare cash for some Zipps I'd probably buy a pair and use them as race only wheels saving the heavy box section wheels for training on. Sorry for the rant but I've been innundated with people b*tching about high gas prices while driving their 10mpg SUVs and read a few posts today that obviously have more money than they know what to do with combined with some financial woes of my own and it made me realize that I'm just glad I enjoy riding my simple but durable bike.

  20. #20
    Windrider (Stubborn)
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    I don't get where what someone else buys bothers you so much.....what's up with that?

    I suppose we all should be on at least 10 year old technology since, in your opinion, nothing we could spend our money on would be worth it to you......Do you see the irony?

    Look, I've raised 4 kids and make a pretty decent living, I don't smoke, nor drink. My only Vice is bike stuff. I love to ride & I love the machine. So I spend about $7,000/yr on bike stuff. Does it make me faster, sometimes. Does it incent me to ride more? , absolutly. What the hell do you care?

    I love it when someone else not only tells me what i should buy, but also knows exactly why I buy what I buy!

    BTW, the rant about the zipps followed by the "If i had the money I'd buy them is one of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum.

    Nice way to introduce yourself to the forum.

    Len



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  21. #21
    i like whiskey
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    Did you ever notice that the people with the most blingy gear never wave at you either? Bastards.

  22. #22
    bas
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    I need some new 22" rims for my Escalade. Shiny to the max.

    Do you know where I can get some ceramic bearings?

    And hanging with former pros doesn't include when they are doing their recovery interval.

    Why aren't your running 105? I hate it when people who go above entry level get lighter parts.

    Actually I'm tired of hearing people ***** about not having money.. Getting a REAL job could help that situation?
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by DLMKA
    I'm relatively new here and the more posts I read about people wasting money on Zipp wheels and all the ultra lightweight parts the more I'm glad I just enjoy riding my bike. It seems that most people looking at this stuff try to back up their decisions with simulation software without having any idea what they are putting into it. What really irks me is most of these people think that a new wheelset is going to drastically improve their race results or even more pathetically the time it takes to get from point A to point B while riding by themselves in a non-competetive bike ride. I ride a modest Waterford that I built up 8 or 9 years ago with Ultegra and other good quality parts. I built the wheels with Campy Moskva (sp?) 32 hole rims and my race wheels are DT Hugi hubs laced to Fir box section tubular rims. I'm still getting back into shape after a few year hiatus off the bike but I can hang with a lot of the local pros on group rides and mix it up in the sprints. I don't have to worry about my lightweight wheelset coming unglued because a ride on new roads runs across a gravel road for a few miles, in fact I haven't had a need to even true my wheels since I built them. The way I look at things is that the only way to make yourself significantly faster is to spent some more time on the bike training. Push yourself to the edge and then push just a little bit harder. Take the time to condition your mind to not give up before your body does. Granted, some people have more natural talent than others combined with a higher threshold of pain but the difference a $10k bike will give you does not make up for a lack of peak fitness. I'm not in any way bashing the equipment and technology that are out there, I'm an engineer, equipment technology pays my salary. If I had some spare cash for some Zipps I'd probably buy a pair and use them as race only wheels saving the heavy box section wheels for training on. Sorry for the rant but I've been innundated with people b*tching about high gas prices while driving their 10mpg SUVs and read a few posts today that obviously have more money than they know what to do with combined with some financial woes of my own and it made me realize that I'm just glad I enjoy riding my simple but durable bike.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by innergel
    Did you ever notice that the people with the most blingy gear never wave at you either? Bastards.

    I think most own Corgi's too....
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
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    Last time I checked this was a hobby for all but the Pro racers, in which case the bike is a "Tool".

    Since it's a hobby, people like to spend money on it because it's what they do for fun and fitness.

    Heck I've got a couple grand in RC Cars sitting in my garage.

    I know people that spend $500+ on a driver and another $1500 for a set of irons just to play golf. Then they spend another $150 for greens fees (every time they play), $100 for a nike shirt, $150 for shoes, etc....

    How about SCUBA diving, something I used to do. It's easy to spend several grand on just the cheap equipment. Then include the cost of travel to go places where it's fun to dive and it's easily $10,000 a year.

    How about cars? People spend 30K, 40K, 100K+ on cars in addition to what they paid for it stock.

    Cell phones anybody? The new I-Phone....People were paying $3000 on E-Bay for one of those and it's a piece of junk. Then add in monthly service charges, etc.

    You name it and people will spend money on it.

    Remember, just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it just means that you don't get it.
    Voting isn't marriage - it's public transport. You are not waiting for "The One" who is absolutely perfect. You are getting on the bus, and if there isn't one going exactly to your destination you don't stay at home and sulk - you take the one going closest to where you want to be!

  25. #25
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    I agree, as with any hobby/sport that involves customizable material possessions, that there can be some snobbiness in cycling. I just bought a new road bike with full Ultegra that I think is pretty sweet, but I know a lot of people would consider it a piece of junk. It's all relative, and I just try not to get worked up over what other people think.

    For me, cycling has had two parts to it, the mechanic/building hobby and the actual riding to get exercise and get better. They do go hand in hand, and both are fun. My mountain bike was an old chromo hardtail that I put a lot of time and money (for a poor college kid at the time) into and I'm pretty proud about the fact I got it to 24.5 lbs and it climbs like I'm standing on an escalator. My roommate's 12-year newer bike is 8-10 lbs heavier. But in the end it's a chromo bike that's out-dated and probably heavy.

    What I have suits my level and definitely helps me ride faster. There are people with way crappier bikes who are proud of theirs and definitely a ton of people who have way better stuff. Whatever makes your evenings and weekends more fun. But maybe one thing to take from this even if the original poster seems whiny or complainy: in everything, not just cycling, think a little before looking down on and smirking at somebody else's ride/clubs/rc car/etc. Most people in this forum are probably decent enough to know this but there are some snobs out on the road.

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