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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I'd rather go with this.
    Maybe even a SID up front.
    And drop bars.

    nice bling bike, but I'd rather go with a rigid Niner for its beefier frame, stick a suspension fork in it and call it a legit XC race machine

  2. #27
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    Mountain bike wheels are often caked in mud, so a rim brake has to eat through that before it even begins to bite. Thus it was obvious from the get-go that disc brakes would prove superior in off road conditions.

    Road bike wheels are rarely in such condition. All weather commuters who never clean their wheels - yeah they certainly benefit from disc brakes. Gravel bikes? Most certainly for both muddy conditions as well as the larger tires.

    I have extensively toured in the mountains with rim brakes (SunTour Superbe Pro side pull calipers were what I used on most of my tours). With a full camping load (@50lbs of gear) I would plummet down mountain passes - I hit 47mph on 13 different passes on a transcontinental tour in '85. Never once did I feel a concern with my braking ability with those brakes.

    I do recall that rim brakes and tubular tires were a problem on super steep descents like Georgia's Brasstown Bald. We would regularly see the glue holding the tires on soften from the heat of braking. So there would be another advantage to disc brakes.

    Both sets of brakes can cause a wheel to lock up quickly in an emergency stop - road bikes do not have much of a contact patch - and disc brakes will do so slightly more quickly. This could be a problem for the novice rider - causing him to go down in a slide . Yes, hydraulic disc brakes are easier to modulate - but one needs the experience behind the bars to realize that he shouldn't just slam on the brakes in panic in order to take advantage of that modulation.


    In essence - use what brakes you like on your road bike. Know their limitations and gain experience with them in all conditions. Keep riding and keep enjoying - no matter what others say.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  3. #28
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    ...so we get another thread discussing the virtues of one over the other. And...SHOCKER, the same people saying the same things with nobody changing their mind.

    It seems their is one group that has made up their minds, the bike manufacturers.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Anyone that has ridden through wet conditions or steep descents, either mtb or road (aluminum but especially carbon) knows that strong and consistent braking outweighs the small weight penalty.
    Yeah, that'd be "no." Just got back from the Dolomites (STEEP, twisty descents) where I bombed down the Falzarego and S. side of the Giau passes in the rain and on wet roads with carbon rim brakes. No muss, no fuss. You just have to have experience and not take stupid risks.
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    we have 6 months here where the roads are wet non stop. Don't have to ride the mountains but 16% grades are common all over, as is gravel on the road and deer around every corner (not exaggeration) and bottom of steep hill stop signs, and narrow and twisty. If I lived in the midwest still I'd not even think of disc brakes, nor would I wear a helmet most rides, nor ride in January there either. For that matter hydro disc brakes were and still are not needed for mtn biking back where I lived in the midwest, lol, unlike here where it would be like going back to pennyfarthings to give up disc brakes on mtn bikes.

    but I ride both rim/disc on them all year on road and gravel. the discs are better in wet of course, an inherently better choice here. But i really like my rim brake road bike and not wanting to spend a bunch more to make my disc brake bike just as nice yet (heavy wheels, issues with the brakes of all things, and the fit is not quite right yet on that bike).
    Fine, so you have a need for it. Many (maybe most) don't. So why should EVERYONE be forced onto discs that they don't want because an arguably small sub-set of riders do have a legitimate need? Would be fine if manufacturers would make 1 or 2 performance disc bikes for you guys, but that's not the way it's going. They WANT to sell us ALL new frames, multiple wheelsets, rack adapters, etc. etc. etc. and the shops want all the service business to bleed, stop squeeling, etc.
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    I don't see rim brakes going away.
    You're kidding yourself. Manufacturers like Evil-Incarnate (Spesh) and Walbike (Trek) will stop making rim brake bikes in 1-2 years. Are people going to stop buying new bikes? Probably not. Sucks, but it's probably real.
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    You're kidding yourself. Manufacturers like Evil-Incarnate (Spesh) and Walbike (Trek) will stop making rim brake bikes in 1-2 years. Are people going to stop buying new bikes? Probably not. Sucks, but it's probably real.
    Sadly true. As a steel riding, card carrying Luddite I guess I will need to start hoarding them

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    You're kidding yourself. Manufacturers like Evil-Incarnate (Spesh) and Walbike (Trek) will stop making rim brake bikes in 1-2 years. Are people going to stop buying new bikes? Probably not. Sucks, but it's probably real.
    I see the manufacturers will stop making the top-end frame for rim brakes. They will probably still continue to make mid to bottom end frames with rim brakes. Same will be for the components side of things too. So basically a rim brake bike will be a mid- to lower level sort of bike. I don't see rim brake bikes going away completely, because after all, they're still selling V-brake bikes!... but who wants to buy a lower level bike!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    So basically a rim brake bike will be a mid- to lower level sort of bike. I don't see rim brake bikes going away completely, because after all, they're still selling V-brake bikes!... but who wants to buy a lower level bike!
    You can't even get an entry MTB with V-brakes. Last I looked, no major manufacturer made a MTB over $500 with V-brakes.

    Giant & Trek only have one model. Not that I'd really consider it a MTB.
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-revel

    Specialized and Cannondale don't make any MTB's with V-brakes.
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    You're kidding yourself. Manufacturers like Evil-Incarnate (Spesh) and Walbike (Trek) will stop making rim brake bikes in 1-2 years. Are people going to stop buying new bikes? Probably not. Sucks, but it's probably real.
    I take it you've never been involved in a competitive business? Sounds like you were maybe indoctrinated in a Soviet high school?

    If there is a demand for rim brake bikes there will be enough manufacturers making them to fill that demand. There are still plenty of bikes sold with aluminum rims (as an example).

    If not, consider the increase in value you'll experience as people fight to outbid one another for your current bike. Look what's happened to the value of 31 ford model A's.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I'd rather go with this.
    Maybe even a SID up front.
    And drop bars.

    I'd ride this with drop bars!
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    You're kidding yourself. Manufacturers like Evil-Incarnate (Spesh) and Walbike (Trek) will stop making rim brake bikes in 1-2 years.
    I could care less about their crappy, cookie cutter bikes. I'd never buy either one.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic bastige View Post
    ...and so have road bikes. My VFR had two HUGE discs up front and one in the back.

    My analysis on this angle is the arguments for and against on a road bicycle is because they are relatively new. Give this topic 5-10 years and it will be over. Also, having been a mountain biker far longer than I have been a road biker, road bikers *tend* to have more of a personality for drama.
    FIY, 65yrs is not new... Discs on bikes have been around since the 1950's. Hydraulics since the 70's... I don't know why some think they are new
    "On long training rides, never use energy greater than you would use walking. You should arrive home fresh, not beaten up."

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic bastige View Post
    ...so we get another thread discussing the virtues of one over the other. And...SHOCKER, the same people saying the same things with nobody changing their mind.

    It seems their is one group that has made up their minds, the bike manufacturers.
    Yeah, the manufacturers seem not learn from history. Thinking that this time around forcing them on the unsuspecting public will work to rake in the $$$ in an already down sloping market.
    "On long training rides, never use energy greater than you would use walking. You should arrive home fresh, not beaten up."

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriku16 View Post
    FIY, 65yrs is not new... Discs on bikes have been around since the 1950's. Hydraulics since the 70's... I don't know why some think they are new
    Yep, all the manufacturers raced to get their hydraulic discs to the market. You could hardly buy a bike without them.

    These are the same corporate bass turds that claim the 2018 Ford Expedition is new. They had Fords a century ago. I have no idea why anybody would claim they're new.

    History major I take it?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    I could care less about their crappy, cookie cutter bikes. I'd never buy either one.
    How much less could you care?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Fine, so you have a need for it. Many (maybe most) don't. So why should EVERYONE be forced onto discs that they don't want because an arguably small sub-set of riders do have a legitimate need? Would be fine if manufacturers would make 1 or 2 performance disc bikes for you guys, but that's not the way it's going. They WANT to sell us ALL new frames, multiple wheelsets, rack adapters, etc. etc. etc. and the shops want all the service business to bleed, stop squeeling, etc.
    First, good news - nobody's being forced to buy a disc brake bike.

    Second, manufacturers are absolutely trying to sell you more product. That's sort of, you know, the entire reason they exist. If they fail at that goal they cease to exist. I'm not sure why this somehow seems offensive to you. It's actually the cornerstone of this economic system we're under called "capitalism."

    They are trying to sell more bikes by making better bikes. Disc brakes are better at stopping, so they're getting put on more and more bikes. They know that if they make better products that they're more likely to sell more bikes. Most people prefer brakes that stop better. If you're part of a subset that prefers brakes that stop worse because they are lighter or you have wheel compatibility issues, that's totally fine, you'll just have fewer choices because you're in the distinct minority.

    Some people probably really like watching videos on VHS. It's hard to find new releases on VHS, because most people prefer more modern formats. It's not because movie producers are evil and want to sell you a Blu-Ray player. It's because modern formats are better, and better products usually win in the market.
    Last edited by masont; 09-09-2018 at 07:54 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    You can't even get an entry MTB with V-brakes. Last I looked, no major manufacturer made a MTB over $500 with V-brakes.

    Giant & Trek only have one model. Not that I'd really consider it a MTB.
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-revel

    Specialized and Cannondale don't make any MTB's with V-brakes.
    ugh, apparently this guy bought an entry level mtb bike, with V-brakes, from Walmart and tested it out at Whistler bike park.


  19. #44
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    I was expecting the Walmart bike to fail miserably but it looks like it did "OK". As an added bonus, the squealing brakes help signal other riders you are coming.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriku16 View Post
    FIY, 65yrs is not new... Discs on bikes have been around since the 1950's. Hydraulics since the 70's... I don't know why some think they are new
    Yes and no. Disc brakes on cars were invented around 1902, but very few cars came with disc brakes until the 1960s, and four wheel discs were not standard until the last 20 years or so. While there were disc brakes in 1902, the has been quite a bit of technological development since then that has made them the obvious choice in a way that they were not 50 years ago. Likewise, disc brakes on bikes in the 1950s weren't nearly as good as what is available in 2018.

    As for MTBs and discs. I think it's a pretty simple fact of use cases. When used in muddy, dirty, or wet conditions as MTBs are likely to be used, disc brakes just stop better and with better modulation. On road bikes, the advantages aren't as clear and the aero penalty is more relevant, so adoption is slower. Likewise, on cars, sports cars begin going to 4-wheel disc brakes in the 60s, but many trucks still use drums today.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I was expecting the Walmart bike to fail miserably but it looks like it did "OK". As an added bonus, the squealing brakes help signal other riders you are coming.
    I remember riding the Porcupine Rim in Moab on a fully rigid bike back in the 80's, you got beat to death and your adrenaline was through the roof the whole time. We loved it. Then suspension and disc brakes came along, the speed went way up and the fun continued.

    Now I have a road bike with disc's even though 2 years ago I said I never would. Was very thankful for them coming of Kolob last weekend. https://www.strava.com/segments/7553486

    Ride what you like, ride what makes you happy, and give up on trying to convince anyone of your particular brand of crazy.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I was expecting the Walmart bike to fail miserably but it looks like it did "OK". As an added bonus, the squealing brakes help signal other riders you are coming.
    The whole time I was bracing myself for a break in the alu frame because the welds looked like it was done with Playdo by a 5 yr old. But the bike held up surprisingly well!

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    Yes and no. Disc brakes on cars were invented around 1902, but very few cars came with disc brakes until the 1960s, and four wheel discs were not standard until the last 20 years or so. While there were disc brakes in 1902, the has been quite a bit of technological development since then that has made them the obvious choice in a way that they were not 50 years ago. Likewise, disc brakes on bikes in the 1950s weren't nearly as good as what is available in 2018.

    As for MTBs and discs. I think it's a pretty simple fact of use cases. When used in muddy, dirty, or wet conditions as MTBs are likely to be used, disc brakes just stop better and with better modulation. On road bikes, the advantages aren't as clear and the aero penalty is more relevant, so adoption is slower. Likewise, on cars, sports cars begin going to 4-wheel disc brakes in the 60s, but many trucks still use drums today.
    Power brakes on vehicles didn't work well before power brakes. Too much pedal pressure required as compared to self energizing drum brakes.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    Now I have a road bike with disc's even though 2 years ago I said I never would. Was very thankful for them coming of Kolob last weekend. https://www.strava.com/segments/7553486
    That doesn't look that bad as far as decents go. A pair of hair pins, a few other sharp turns but most look like they have a pretty long lead into them for you to shed speed. The pavement looks surprisingly good on google for a road in the middle of the desert. I've never ridden it though but based off strava profile it doesn't look that bad.

    Funny how the fastest guy up it averaged only 19ish down while the fastest times down average 29ish down.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by taodemon View Post
    That doesn't look that bad as far as decents go. A pair of hair pins, a few other sharp turns but most look like they have a pretty long lead into them for you to shed speed. The pavement looks surprisingly good on google for a road in the middle of the desert. I've never ridden it though but based off strava profile it doesn't look that bad.

    Funny how the fastest guy up it averaged only 19ish down while the fastest times down average 29ish down.
    Come on out and lets give it a go, maybe I'm just a baby. Having ridden it with both types of brakes and also having seen a pair of ENVE wheels melt down at the braking surface, causing a particularly bad accident. I will take the disc's and the peace of mind comes in knowing I have more than enough stopping power.

    I also have a picture somewhere of a Pinarello in pieces after a local guy hit a cow on the DH, some of the area is free range, so that makes it fun.

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