Your Good Bike on newer direct drive trainer
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  1. #1
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    Your Good Bike on newer direct drive trainer

    Anyone running their best bike on the newer direct drive trainers. I have a new Tacx Neo trainer and they seem a lot more stable,besides sweat and component wear is there any reason not to ride your best bike?
    My second bike is a ten speed ,newer bike is eleven and all of my girlfriends bikes are eleven.
    Any experiences or thoughts appreciated.

  2. #2
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    It may generally be cautioned against, but if your using a carbon frame, you may want to be careful with the clamping force used to hold the frame in place, as well as the side to side forces when riding/standing.

    FWIW, I'm using my first carbon bike as a dedicated trainer/rain bike, now that I've bought my "dream bike", but I'm hearing more creaking going into my 3rd zwift season on wahoo kickr. I used to alternate my steel bike with the carbon, due to different chain rings, and to give the carbon frame a break, but the steel frame is showing to much rust for trainer use now. I won't ever be using my "best bike" (which is carbon) on the trainer...but that's mainly because I won't be to get an exact replacement "new" any longer.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabkr View Post
    Anyone running their best bike on the newer direct drive trainers. I have a new Tacx Neo trainer and they seem a lot more stable,besides sweat and component wear is there any reason not to ride your best bike?
    My second bike is a ten speed ,newer bike is eleven and all of my girlfriends bikes are eleven.
    Any experiences or thoughts appreciated.
    When you say "your best bike" it implies that you have more than one. I can't see that a high zoot bike has any advantage on the trainer. Unless there are gearing issues, it just makes sense to use the backup bike

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    My e-bike is the dedicated training bike at my place. My workouts have really improved, all the guys on zwifer are impressed.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    My e-bike is the dedicated training bike at my place. My workouts have really improved, all the guys on zwifer are impressed.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to duriel again.
    Too old to ride plastic

  6. #6
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    Frames aren't designed to take the stresses trainers can put on them - torque applied at a 90 degree angle to the rear axle. If you ride really smooth no rocking probably no harm will come other than sweat dripping on the head and BB bearings etc. I don't use my carbon framed bike on the trainer, I use my gravel bike which has an aluminum frame and built stouter. Same applies to any trainer (not rollers) not just wheel off trainers.
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  7. #7
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    I bought a used titanium bike that had spent a couple of years pretty much exclusively on a trainer. It ended up having cracks in both rear chainstays, near the dropouts (seller stepped up, but ended with both stays being replaced under warranty, amazingly). Perhaps that's just a random occurrence and had nothing to do with a trainer, but maybe not. That's a lot of stress.

    I'm surprised that the market hasn't come out with a trainer that allows for few degrees of rotation around the x-axis. It would add to the "realism" when you're out of the saddle, and would take some strain off of the frame. Or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah2000 View Post
    ...I'm surprised that the market hasn't come out with a trainer that allows for few degrees of rotation around the x-axis. It would add to the "realism" when you're out of the saddle, and would take some strain off of the frame. Or something.
    Like the Kinetic "Rock and Roll"?

    A lot of people are doing their own "rocker plates":

    https://youtu.be/pWLY4zLDPFE

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    Quote Originally Posted by colnagoG60 View Post
    Like the Kinetic "Rock and Roll"?

    A lot of people are doing their own "rocker plates":
    Ah, well look at that. I can't say that I follow the trainer world all that closely, but that's cool to see.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to duriel again.
    Curious. I've seen you make this statement in other posts. What does it mean?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Frames aren't designed to take the stresses trainers can put on them - torque applied at a 90 degree angle to the rear axle. If you ride really smooth no rocking probably no harm will come other than sweat dripping on the head and BB bearings etc. I don't use my carbon framed bike on the trainer, I use my gravel bike which has an aluminum frame and built stouter. Same applies to any trainer (not rollers) not just wheel off trainers.
    Do you mean the torque applied to the axle because it's pinned by the trainer? If so, how is it different from riding on the road? Normally a lateral reaction would be applied to the tire and transmitted through the wheel and hub to the axle, then the dropouts. On a trainer, the force is applied to the axle and then the dropouts. I'm not trying to argue, just understand. I've heard that argument a lot and I'm having trouble visualizing it. For what it's worth, I bought an older Al bike to dedicate to trainer use, even though I use the trainer very little.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo View Post
    Do you mean the torque applied to the axle because it's pinned by the trainer? If so, how is it different from riding on the road? Normally a lateral reaction would be applied to the tire and transmitted through the wheel and hub to the axle, then the dropouts. On a trainer, the force is applied to the axle and then the dropouts. I'm not trying to argue, just understand. I've heard that argument a lot and I'm having trouble visualizing it. For what it's worth, I bought an older Al bike to dedicate to trainer use, even though I use the trainer very little.
    The force from the wheel hitting something in the road like a pothole is transmitted vertically relative to the plane of the bike frame so it's not trying to rotate the axle its just moving it up and down and the rear triangle of frames are designed to handle that force. The only force from road riding that is similar to a twist that comes from a trainer is due to gyroscopic forces when leaning over into a turn.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo View Post
    Do you mean the torque applied to the axle because it's pinned by the trainer? If so, how is it different from riding on the road? Normally a lateral reaction would be applied to the tire and transmitted through the wheel and hub to the axle, then the dropouts. On a trainer, the force is applied to the axle and then the dropouts. I'm not trying to argue, just understand. I've heard that argument a lot and I'm having trouble visualizing it. For what it's worth, I bought an older Al bike to dedicate to trainer use, even though I use the trainer very little.
    Lean over on the road and the bike will lean with you until you fall. Lean on a trainer and what do you think it holding you up?
    It would be the same as the road if you weight was perfectly centered and no side to side shifting, but that doesn't happen.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 01-07-2019 at 01:33 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Lean over on the road and the bike will lean with you until you fall. Lean on a trainer and what do you think it holding you up?
    I get that one could create a lot of stress on the axle/dropouts by leaning, but why would anyone do that? Wouldn't the largest stress usually be caused by pedaling out of the saddle? In that case, the bike is upright and seeing the same forces applied as when on the road. When turning, there is still a portion of the centripetal force that the dropouts end up seeing as the axle trying to push into or pull out of either side. I do agree about the leaning though; it would be possible to apply greater force than the frame was designed to handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo View Post
    I get that one could create a lot of stress on the axle/dropouts by leaning, but why would anyone do that? Wouldn't the largest stress usually be caused by pedaling out of the saddle? In that case, the bike is upright and seeing the same forces applied as when on the road. When turning, there is still a portion of the centripetal force that the dropouts end up seeing as the axle trying to push into or pull out of either side. I do agree about the leaning though; it would be possible to apply greater force than the frame was designed to handle.
    Because they are incapable of pedaling and keeping their body weight perfectly centered at the same time. Leaning, side to side shifting ow weight, call if whatever you want it's the same........bikes are not designed for those forces. if you think you can keep your weight perfectly centered on a trainer you won't be exerting those twisting forces on a frame. Good luck with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    Curious. I've seen you make this statement in other posts. What does it mean?
    Try and rep someone that you have recently rep'd and this is the message that you will get instead of being able to rep them again.
    Too old to ride plastic

  17. #17
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    Bikes are both carbon,older bike has ten speed cassette,my newer bike and all of girlfriends bikes are eleven. The direct drive has its own cassette,so I would have to change out cassette for her to ride. Afraid that I would eventually strip out free hub on trainer.
    I could use an extra 11 speed derailer I have and buy a new 11 speed shifter (R)and 11 speed chain, but then I could not use my Dura Ace 10 speed rear wheel,and would have to buy another 11 speed rear wheel for road use.
    Alternative,buy a bike just for trainer,or find a new girlfriend that only has 10 speed bikes.
    Last edited by gabkr; 01-07-2019 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Forgot part

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    The force from the wheel hitting something in the road like a pothole is transmitted vertically relative to the plane of the bike frame so it's not trying to rotate the axle its just moving it up and down and the rear triangle of frames are designed to handle that force. The only force from road riding that is similar to a twist that comes from a trainer is due to gyroscopic forces when leaning over into a turn.
    Close, but.... when your on the bike, on the road, in a corner, .... the bike leans so the load is still 90degrees from the axle centerline.
    The only time on the road that mimics the forces of a trainer would be if you rear slides out and then the wheel trys and rotate in the drops similar to the trainer. ... so in actual use, hardly ever!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Because they are incapable of pedaling and keeping their body weight perfectly centered at the same time. Leaning, side to side shifting ow weight, call if whatever you want it's the same........bikes are not designed for those forces. if you think you can keep your weight perfectly centered on a trainer you won't be exerting those twisting forces on a frame. Good luck with that.
    "For me", out of the saddle sprinting is weird and frustrating on a trainer, from not being able to move the bike under me, and trying to save the frame. "Climbing" isn't so bad, since cadence is lower, but after a month or more of trainer only riding, I get all kinds of uncoordinated riding out of the saddle on the road. I even threw my knee out trying to remember the motion.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by colnagoG60 View Post
    "For me", out of the saddle sprinting is weird and frustrating on a trainer, from not being able to move the bike under me, and trying to save the frame. "Climbing" isn't so bad, since cadence is lower, but after a month or more of trainer only riding, I get all kinds of uncoordinated riding out of the saddle on the road. I even threw my knee out trying to remember the motion.
    I've only had the Rock & Roll trainer but I can imagine how weird that must be. Even though I can sort of swing the bike like on the road with the Rock & Roll it's far from the same. I really can't imagine using a perfectly stationary trainer.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah2000 View Post
    Ah, well look at that. I can't say that I follow the trainer world all that closely, but that's cool to see.
    Unfortunately they were having trouble with the "smart" portion of the "Rock n Roll", at least with Zwift last year. If it gets resolved (may be by now) I may switch from Kickr just to be able to "sway". I think the RocknRoll is a better form factor than a rocket plate.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabkr View Post
    Bikes are both carbon,older bike has ten speed cassette,my newer bike and all of girlfriends bikes are eleven. The direct drive has its own cassette,so I would have to change out cassette for her to ride. Afraid that I would eventually strip out free hub on trainer.
    I could use an extra 11 speed derailer I have and buy a new 11 speed shifter (R)and 11 speed chain, but then I could not use my Dura Ace 10 speed rear wheel,and would have to buy another 11 speed rear wheel for road use.
    Alternative,buy a bike just for trainer,or find a new girlfriend that only has 10 speed bikes.
    Buy cheap frame/seatpost/stem/handlebar/saddle on Craigslist more or less matching your good bike dims and a 105 or even Tiagra groupset from the UK for $400 or less; you could even sell the brake set as you wouldn't need them on a dedicated trainer bike.

  23. #23
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    If I had a nice carbon fiber frame, I wouldn’t risk damage by putting it on a trainer. I would try to find similar geometry in another material and go from there.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I've only had the Rock & Roll trainer but I can imagine how weird that must be. Even though I can sort of swing the bike like on the road with the Rock & Roll it's far from the same. I really can't imagine using a perfectly stationary trainer.
    I do the quirky Contador bouncy type motion when climbing, for "Alp du Zwift" type sections. But two torn ACLs keep me from chasing sprint segments any more. Catch the pedals in the wrong position when you start the power stroke and it's Katy-bar-the-door!

  25. #25
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    All of ^that^ makes perfect sense - the unintended loads, not mimicking real-world riding, etc. But... has anyone seen a frame fail because of this? Has anyone seen a manufacturer exclude trainer usage? Given the millions of hours logged on carbon fiber bikes on direct-drive trainers, surely... by now, the interwebs would be flooded with pics, stories, warnings, voided warranties...

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