Your next bike will be from Cambodia or Vietnam - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzr View Post
    It has always been a race to the bottom with regard to labor. Vietnam has made camera lenses for years, are you saying they can't do "high tech" manufacturing?
    Vietnam can do high tech, it's ahead of Cambodia in terms of education of workforce. Vietnam has one of the highest literatcy rate in Asia, higher than China and Cambodia for sure. Some high tech firms have been investing in VN, like Intel. The issue with doing business in VN (as I see it) is corruption. It's one of the most corrupted government in the world, and becasue of this, visibility (and quality control) is to be questioned. But other than this, the Vietnamese workforce is a very capable one in terms of education and trainability.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Why don't they make bikes in Mexico, Central or South America? Keep jobs in our hemisphere and might help with illegal immigration. Cambodia? Really?
    that's a great question. Why don't more American companies do business in Central and South Americas versus in Asia. It probably all boils down to economics. I'm guessing Asia is the hub of manufacturing of the world. Everything is close by over there, making productions of everything cheaper.

    Central and South Americas do export a lot of fruit products to the US though. In fact, why don't the US just use the entire Central/South America continent as its food basket? This would totally solve the immigration issue huh since immigrants will be heading back home for the farming jobs. I reckon if left to natural competition, agricultural products in the US would be out-competed by Central/South Americas. But this is too much of a political risk to see it happen for politicians in agro disctricts, and too much of a national security risk to have our food source come from one corner.
    Last edited by aclinjury; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:22 AM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    I didn't see PBL450's post to come across as racist.. at all. I mean, he did open his comedy up with "105 vs Di2" to let the audience know that what he's about to say could be satire comedic, and I saw that coming. Not a racial post the way I see it
    I don't know, his "comedy", as you call it, read like a jab at exracer to me.
    Too old to ride plastic

  4. #29
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    Well we see things differently. and apparently I'm not the only one. Velodog's response was spot on. To me it came off as a tirade. If it was meant as satire, no I did not find it amusing at all. It did not evoke the hahaha hohoho hehehe in me and I gave him a to explain himself. All to often in this world of social media and political climate the most mundane things are being labeled as racist. So, you take that in account and lines become blurred. What one person may find as satire another person may not.

  5. #30
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    Lighten up, everybody! Isn't it blatently obvious that PBL450's post was tongue in cheek? You guys must be really fun at parties.

    But anyway, I have 7 bikes. 4 are made in USA, 3 are made in Taiwan.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    I didn't see PBL450's post to come across as racist.. at all. I mean, he did open his comedy up with "105 vs Di2" to let the audience know that what he's about to say could be satire comedic, and I saw that coming. Not a racial post the way I see it
    No not racist. Just implying someone else is racist based essentially on nothing but what he wants to imagine about the person (exracer).

    Which, ironically, is pretty much the same as racism just a different form of bigotry not based on race.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Lighten up, everybody! Isn't it blatently obvious that PBL450's post was tongue in cheek? You guys must be really fun at parties.

    But anyway, I have 7 bikes. 4 are made in USA, 3 are made in Taiwan.
    It's blatantly obvious that PBL450's "tongue in cheek" "humor" was implying that exracer was being racist because of his choice of bicycles.
    Too old to ride plastic

  8. #33
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    Oh, y’all don’t need to speculate. Y’all don’t need to apologize or explain... bigots are bigots and they are just exposing themselves. Brown people make bad bike frames. White people make good bike frames. Good bike frames make white people win bike races. White people bikes are good. Dark people bike frames are bad. White people get angry about their bigotry... normal...

    Elite world class riders are winning on Swiss engineered but Taiwanese built frames just like mine. I find it hard to understand why they can beat frames built by white people? Help me with that? Why are white people products better than brown people products?
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I don't understand this tirade. S\he wants an Italian bike, possibly one made in the USA, why turn it into a racial issue without those facts. Italian bikes have had a following, almost cult like, for years, and the there are custom builders in the USA that are highly enough regarded that there are lines of cyclists waiting for them to be built.

    It's probably more of a Ford\Chevy\Mopar thing than a racial thing, but I'm probably guilty of speculation here.
    Your point is completely different... If you want a frame from a particular country, fine... but you should know that the presumption it’s better because white people built it is fundamentally bigoted. Period.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    Are you trying to be funny or are you just some racist puke hypocrite (pick one)? This has nothing to about race and all about what I want and I really don't give a f*ck about where it is made. If you can't figure that out, piss off
    Wow. Clearly you are a racist bigot. That’s your business. I’d be mortified to present as such a complete POS. Sadly, you are one of millions of racist POS Americans.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Your point is completely different... If you want a frame from a particular country, fine... but you should know that the presumption it’s better because white people built it is fundamentally bigoted. Period.
    Please point out that presumption in exracers post. It seemed, to me, that he was pointing out that the manufacturers move out of China isn't affecting where his next bike comes from.
    Too old to ride plastic

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Oh, y’all don’t need to speculate. Y’all don’t need to apologize or explain... bigots are bigots and they are just exposing themselves. Brown people make bad bike frames. White people make good bike frames. Good bike frames make white people win bike races. White people bikes are good. Dark people bike frames are bad. White people get angry about their bigotry... normal...

    Elite world class riders are winning on Swiss engineered but Taiwanese built frames just like mine. I find it hard to understand why they can beat frames built by white people? Help me with that? Why are white people products better than brown people products?
    This is the "General Cycling" forum, you should bring the attitude over to "PO" where it'll be appreciated.
    Too old to ride plastic

  13. #38
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    My last three bikes (frames) were made in the US. They're titanium, and the source of the raw materials and the reputation of the manufacturer mattered a great deal to me. Titanium can vary widely in quality, just like carbon fiber can.

    Some of my plastic bikes were made in the US, and some in Taiwan. I really can't tell them apart in terms of build quality. Maybe the Taiwanese bikes have the edge, because they are later technology and they really have nailed down the manufacturing processes. Quality control, supply chains, and other factors that directly impact the final product are more easily controlled- but it does come at a price.

    Chinese bikes? Not really a fan, unless the sourcing company has rigid quality controls in place and boots on the ground watching everything. Very good products are coming out of China, but there is a lot of garbage being churned out with it. I imagine it will be much the same in Vietnam and Cambodia, depending on the laws on the books and the political will to enforce them. Developing nations rarely have the best liability protections in place, no matter which hemisphere they are located in.

    I really don't care what color the person who makes my bike is, as long as they display a high degree of craft when they do it and only use quality materials. Life is too short to trust it to anything less.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    My last three bikes (frames) were made in the US. They're titanium, and the source of the raw materials and the reputation of the manufacturer mattered a great deal to me. Titanium can vary widely in quality, just like carbon fiber can.

    Some of my plastic bikes were made in the US, and some in Taiwan. I really can't tell them apart in terms of build quality. Maybe the Taiwanese bikes have the edge, because they are later technology and they really have nailed down the manufacturing processes. Quality control, supply chains, and other factors that directly impact the final product are more easily controlled- but it does come at a price.

    Chinese bikes? Not really a fan, unless the sourcing company has rigid quality controls in place and boots on the ground watching everything. Very good products are coming out of China, but there is a lot of garbage being churned out with it. I imagine it will be much the same in Vietnam and Cambodia, depending on the laws on the books and the political will to enforce them. Developing nations rarely have the best liability protections in place, no matter which hemisphere they are located in.

    I really don't care what color the person who makes my bike is, as long as they display a high degree of craft when they do it and only use quality materials. Life is too short to trust it to anything less.
    Well said. And diplomatically at that. It won’t let me rep your reply, I must spread it around...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Wow. Clearly you are a racist bigot. That’s your business. I’d be mortified to present as such a complete POS. Sadly, you are one of millions of racist POS Americans.
    And clearly you are a gutless bigoted coward living in some delusional world other than reality. You got something to say, you say it to my face and we will settle this like men. You are a man? Right? You have a set of b*lls? Nothing in my post was racist. Did not say or imply that a euro or American frame was better. I just stated that either the USA or Europe is where I'm getting my next frame. YOU brought race into this. So how are your goose stepping classes going?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    My last three bikes (frames) were made in the US. They're titanium, and the source of the raw materials and the reputation of the manufacturer mattered a great deal to me. Titanium can vary widely in quality, just like carbon fiber can.

    Some of my plastic bikes were made in the US, and some in Taiwan. I really can't tell them apart in terms of build quality. Maybe the Taiwanese bikes have the edge, because they are later technology and they really have nailed down the manufacturing processes. Quality control, supply chains, and other factors that directly impact the final product are more easily controlled- but it does come at a price.

    Chinese bikes? Not really a fan, unless the sourcing company has rigid quality controls in place and boots on the ground watching everything. Very good products are coming out of China, but there is a lot of garbage being churned out with it. I imagine it will be much the same in Vietnam and Cambodia, depending on the laws on the books and the political will to enforce them. Developing nations rarely have the best liability protections in place, no matter which hemisphere they are located in.

    I really don't care what color the person who makes my bike is, as long as they display a high degree of craft when they do it and only use quality materials. Life is too short to trust it to anything less.
    Very well put. It's not WHERE it's made, but the company behind where it's made and their quality control specs that matter.

    I think the point behind this thread was the fact that companies are always looking for the cheapest labor they can find. Chinese and Indian labor used to be cheap. However, as nations develop an industrial presence, labor starts to cost more. So the bean counters are constantly looking for the least common denominator. They want the closest thing to slave labor that they can find.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  17. #42
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    old saying goes like this,
    when everyone you around you smells like dog crap its a good idea to check the bottom of your shoes

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    that's a great question. Why don't more American companies do business in Central and South Americas versus in Asia. It probably all boils down to economics. I'm guessing Asia is the hub of manufacturing of the world. Everything is close by over there, making productions of everything cheaper.

    Central and South Americas do export a lot of fruit products to the US though. In fact, why don't the US just use the entire Central/South America continent as its food basket? This would totally solve the immigration issue huh since immigrants will be heading back home for the farming jobs. I reckon if left to natural competition, agricultural products in the US would be out-competed by Central/South Americas. But this is too much of a political risk to see it happen for politicians in agro disctricts, and too much of a national security risk to have our food source come from one corner.
    How about taking some of that foreign aid money we give to these countries and use that for tax breaks for companies that set up manufacturing in those countries?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Oh, y’all don’t need to speculate. Y’all don’t need to apologize or explain... bigots are bigots and they are just exposing themselves. Brown people make bad bike frames. White people make good bike frames. Good bike frames make white people win bike races. White people bikes are good. Dark people bike frames are bad. White people get angry about their bigotry... normal...

    Elite world class riders are winning on Swiss engineered but Taiwanese built frames just like mine. I find it hard to understand why they can beat frames built by white people? Help me with that? Why are white people products better than brown people products?
    The only one that has exposed themselves to be bigot is you. You just don't have the guts to admit it.You also proved yourself to be quite the ass, since you like to ASSume things about people you know nothing about. Back home you'd be a prime example of your typical haole. Since you are such a brainiac and I'm such a bigot; perhaps you would like to explain why I would "knowingly" have bought my current bike (Scapin) if it were made in Taiwan. The one before that (Guerciotti)Taiwan. The one before (Abici) USA. Before that (Paramount) USA. And so on and so forth. The rep of the company is more important than where it is made and I'd rather ride something you don't see everyday. Just because I'd rather own a Gaulzetti, Cyfac or Sarto rather than a Trek, C'dale or Specialized does not make me a bigot but it does make you look foolish. Oh and I think heard/read somewhere that Sarto transferred some of his production to the Taiwan. So what, Still a Sarto.
    Last edited by exracer; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:59 AM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Oh, y’all don’t need to speculate. Y’all don’t need to apologize or explain... bigots are bigots and they are just exposing themselves. Brown people make bad bike frames. White people make good bike frames. Good bike frames make white people win bike races. White people bikes are good. Dark people bike frames are bad. White people get angry about their bigotry... normal...

    Elite world class riders are winning on Swiss engineered but Taiwanese built frames just like mine. I find it hard to understand why they can beat frames built by white people? Help me with that? Why are white people products better than brown people products?
    Doubling down I see.

    And you don't see the irony in calling someone a bigot based on essentially nothing but assumptions.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Doubling down I see.

    And you don't see the irony in calling someone a bigot based on essentially nothing but assumptions.
    Gotta watch for them bigots, Jay. They're hiding behind every rock. You just don't know. We must assume everybody's a bigot until proven otherwise. Better safe than sorry.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Central and South Americas do export a lot of fruit products to the US though. In fact, why don't the US just use the entire Central/South America continent as its food basket? This would totally solve the immigration issue huh since immigrants will be heading back home for the farming jobs. I reckon if left to natural competition, agricultural products in the US would be out-competed by Central/South Americas. But this is too much of a political risk to see it happen for politicians in agro disctricts, and too much of a national security risk to have our food source come from one corner.
    Yeah, seeing as how unhealthy many (most?) Americans diets are I'm not sure there's that much demand for more fruits/veggies from down south. Corn based junk is what sells. Does wheat even grow at far southern latitudes?

    Factor in concerns about carbon footprint (i.e. barges full of Chilean oranges motoring north), deforestation, fair trade, picking fruit before it's ripe so it survives the trip...

    We may already be importing as much produce as we ever would.

    It might be better to travel south as often as possible and gorge yourself on that stuff when it actually ripens on the tree, wash down with a nice SA vino, and and pair it with locally caught seafood.

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