Meaning of a Lifetime Warranty - Page 3
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 68 of 68
  1. #51
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    Did you, or AGB come to any logical conclusion as to how both dropouts cracked and or broke, and how the headtube cracked? My understanding from your site that they declared it an accident, which kind of makes sense but I don't see any scuff marks indicating such. I did read one of the posters on your site stated the following:

    "Iíve spend over 20 years in engineering and aerospace and have plenty of experience of highly-engineered products in composites and titanium. Initial thoughts from the photos are this is classic weld-failure due to hydrogen-embrittlement / contaminated weld. There is nothing in those photos which indicate crash-damage Ė and Iíve crashed and repaired plenty of bikes to know the classic signs Ė outward bend of the gear hanger isnít one of them. I guess the guys at ABG skipped the Ďcustomer serviceí classes at business school, because their reputation is heading so far south it must be across the Rio Grande!"

    Was that basically the final determination for the damage? Other posters thought there wasn't enough evidence to prove or disprove the embrittlement theory. But all of that doesn't account for the cracked head tube.

    Bob Bichen posted this on your site too which I found interesting:

    "It would seem that LItespeed has lost a lot of what made it special at one time. My 3 year old, lightly used, Vortex (sold as a Douglas Titanium through Colorado Cyclist) cracked at the head tube weld. Like others, I am getting the runaround from Litespeed (ABG). I didnít even hear a peep from Colorado Cyclist until today, after I sent them draft pleadings (lawsuit; breach of warranty, etc.) Within an hour the owner calls me. At least I have his attention but I suspect I wonít get resolution until I file suit and serve Litespeed. A real shame as I have always admired them and own two of their bikes. But this will be the last one even if they do warranty it. Next bike will be something different (if another Ti, probably Lynskey)."

    Obviously your not alone. And I've heard similar complaints on other forums over the years since AGB took over, so a AGB Lightspeed, Merlin, or Quintana Roo frame breaking is not something AGB will likely honor their warranty over...at least not without a major hassle and threat of a lawsuit.

    If I remember correctly AGB repaired your bike and then said the repair will void your warranty for any future warranty claims...so much for the lifetime warranty.
    In my previous posts I've said everything that was needed to say regarding my warranty claim.

    The point I am trying to make here is companies spend a fortune on search engine optimisation to ensure their products pop up as high as possible on a Google search.

    The last thing I assumed any manafacturer would want is a lot of, once loyal, customers moaning and ranting about a complete lack of warranty and support.

  2. #52
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    Quote Originally Posted by infopete View Post
    In my previous posts I've said everything that was needed to say regarding my warranty claim.

    The point I am trying to make here is companies spend a fortune on search engine optimisation to ensure their products pop up as high as possible on a Google search.

    The last thing I assumed any manafacturer would want is a lot of, once loyal, customers moaning and ranting about a complete lack of warranty and support.
    So no comment about the cracked head tube as to how that may have happened? If I remember correctly you didn't really comment about it in your previous posts either.

  3. #53
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    So no comment about the cracked head tube as to how that may have happened? If I remember correctly you didn't really comment about it in your previous posts either.
    If I knew why my Merlin fell apart I would tell you. What I can say, again, is it was never in an accident.


  4. #54
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    Quote Originally Posted by infopete View Post
    If I knew why my Merlin fell apart I would tell you. What I can say, again, is it was never in an accident.

    You can beat your head all you want, but I'm not siding against you. If you couldn't tell that from my post then continue to beat your head maybe you'll knock some sense into it.

  5. #55
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    You can beat your head all you want, but I'm not siding against you. If you couldn't tell that from my post then continue to beat your head maybe you'll knock some sense into it.
    No problem

  6. #56
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    135

    Thank you for the education on ABG and small claims

    I was going to buy a Xicon or less chance of but maybe the Archon.
    I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER LITESPEED NOW!
    I have 2 now but they were when Litespeed was Lynskey.
    I will buy a Moots, Lynskey (leaning this way) or some other Ti bike.
    The new Litespeed company seem to be crooks and dishonest to me.
    KTM 300XC- This must be what it is like to be on Crack without the side effects!
    Litespeed Vortex
    Ellsworth Truth
    Good riding to you!

  7. #57
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5
    Are warranties valid when a company has a change in ownership? The people that owned Litespeed when you bought your frame are different than who owns it now.

  8. #58
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Cru Jones Columbus View Post
    Are warranties valid when a company has a change in ownership? The people that owned Litespeed when you bought your frame are different than who owns it now.
    Problem with the new owners of Lightspeed, the AGB group or whatever they hell their initials are, is that they won't warranty their own warranties on bikes made while they are at the helm! So no way will they honor a warranty prior to them taking over...at least not without an attorney intervening.

    Typically though if a company buys out another company they have to honor their warranties on products sold prior to sale of the company. There has been cases where a company bought out another then sent registered mail stating they would not be honoring warranties but most companies if not all stopped that because it hurt sales like crazy for the new company.

  9. #59
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: threebikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    342
    The reason the frame cracked there is its a bad design. The mount should taper like this.

  10. #60
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    But even with that tapered mount you can still experience that same effect, that metal piece is working like a can opener against the frame. Short of putting thicker gauge steel or a lug on the actual frame and or making the part longer to spread out the load you're just waiting for that to happen...of course depending on the riders weight and abuse the bike is given it could last forever or only last a few years.

    I can't tell in the picture if the tapered part is longer then the original, but tapered is not the problem, the problem is spreading out the load forces over a greater area on the frame or reinforcing the frame to handle it..

  11. #61
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: threebikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    342
    Yep the stock mount is to short.

  12. #62
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    22

    Why I won't buy a Litespeed.

    Lifetime warranty well... I'm OK with simply a realistic warranty for a $2700-$4K frame.
    10 years maybe? So... here's why I won't buy one. I like the look, geometry and construction of their new LR1 and have been mulling over purchasing one. So I I carefully looked their warranty. I was a bit surprised to read that they consider loosening ( failure) of the water bottle bosses to be covered for only 30 days. Yep 30 days. On carbon frames I have seen this happen more than once and it's a pain to fix. You can do it... but it's a pain. Since the warranty page also included being charged for refinishing the frame I assumed this was from Litespeed's pre carbon days so I sent an inquiry. The response from Sarah from ABMG is here:
    "Thank you for submitting your warranty question. Yes, if a water bottle riv
    nut comes loose after 30 days then it is not considered a manufacturing
    defect and will not be covered under warranty. We make a $4000 TI frame as
    well, if the riv nut comes loose on that frame after 30 days it is not
    considered a manufacturing defect either."

    OK... glad to know they stand behind their products. For 30 days. For a $4,000 frame. OK, moving on.

  13. #63
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    yup, move on...away from any bike built by ABG, including Quintana Roo, and Merlin.

  14. #64
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,045
    As I mentioned earlier, a lifetime warranty is useless, especially when it comes down to the
    "limited of time." This is more than likely stipulated in the "fine print of the contract." I find it easier to get a nice carbon frame, keep in mind that it has a limited lifetime, and plan for replacing it after a
    certain time period.

  15. #65
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    Quote Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, a lifetime warranty is useless, especially when it comes down to the
    "limited of time." This is more than likely stipulated in the "fine print of the contract." I find it easier to get a nice carbon frame, keep in mind that it has a limited lifetime, and plan for replacing it after a
    certain time period.
    That is true. I have a lifetime warranty on a 84 Trek steel lugged bike. So how would Trek handle their lifetime warranty on a lugged steel frame they no longer make either the frame or steel lugged frames? What would they replace it with if a braze failed? A cheap steel 520 frame? A cheap aluminum frame? That 660 was the second from the top of the line bike made that year, would they replace it with their current second from the top of the line model bike? Sure they will, don't make me laugh, in other words I'm screwed in the terms of the warranty.

    Usually if something is wrong in the construction of the frame it should present itself within the first year of ownership and most of the time the failure will happen within the first 90 days.

    Having said that, Competition Cyclist has their own lifetime warranty that supersedes the manufacture warranty. They claim that if for any reason in your lifetime that you are unhappy with the bike you can get either a refund or an exchange dollar for dollar, and they claim that includes crashing the bike! I personally sent an e-mail to Competition Cyclist questioning that claim of crashing and they did confirm it, but if I was buying a bike from them I would drill the sales person to make sure that information is correct, and get it in writing because that sounds too good to be true. Of course if Competition Cyclist goes out of business then so does your warranty.

  16. #66
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    22

    Credit to ABG where due.

    I realize that this discussion is about the meaning of "lifetime" when a product is sold with that warranty, but I'll give credit where credit is due. This morning I received a follow up call from ABG on my inquiry about the warranty (see quote) and was pleased with the conversation and the effort the company took to reach me for clarification.
    It seems the website information is inaccurate and that was used to base the initial response to my inquiry. So a loosening of a water bottle rivet is covered for the true (not 30 day) warranty period. I understand the website information is being changed to reflect the actual warranty policy. I know that if you have a frame that has failed due to a material or manufacturing fault and are fighting to get it warrantied- this doesn't mean very much. However, when a larger company rep makes the effort to reach out to a potential customer to clarify a policy, it should be applauded. No... I don't work in the industry, or for a bike shop or for ABG. And yes I've been riding and racing for 30 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerma View Post
    Lifetime warranty well... I'm OK with simply a realistic warranty for a $2700-$4K frame.
    10 years maybe? So... here's why I won't buy one. I like the look, geometry and construction of their new LR1 and have been mulling over purchasing one. So I I carefully looked their warranty. I was a bit surprised to read that they consider loosening ( failure) of the water bottle bosses to be covered for only 30 days. Yep 30 days. On carbon frames I have seen this happen more than once and it's a pain to fix. You can do it... but it's a pain. Since the warranty page also included being charged for refinishing the frame I assumed this was from Litespeed's pre carbon days so I sent an inquiry. The response from Sarah from ABMG is here:
    "Thank you for submitting your warranty question. Yes, if a water bottle riv
    nut comes loose after 30 days then it is not considered a manufacturing
    defect and will not be covered under warranty. We make a $4000 TI frame as
    well, if the riv nut comes loose on that frame after 30 days it is not
    considered a manufacturing defect either."

    OK... glad to know they stand behind their products. For 30 days. For a $4,000 frame. OK, moving on.

  17. #67
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: froze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    7,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Yerma View Post
    I realize that this discussion is about the meaning of "lifetime" when a product is sold with that warranty, but I'll give credit where credit is due. This morning I received a follow up call from ABG on my inquiry about the warranty (see quote) and was pleased with the conversation and the effort the company took to reach me for clarification.
    It seems the website information is inaccurate and that was used to base the initial response to my inquiry. So a loosening of a water bottle rivet is covered for the true (not 30 day) warranty period. I understand the website information is being changed to reflect the actual warranty policy. I know that if you have a frame that has failed due to a material or manufacturing fault and are fighting to get it warrantied- this doesn't mean very much. However, when a larger company rep makes the effort to reach out to a potential customer to clarify a policy, it should be applauded. No... I don't work in the industry, or for a bike shop or for ABG. And yes I've been riding and racing for 30 years.
    When they actually fix your problem then report back, talk is cheap.

  18. #68
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    22
    No... talk is free and I have no problem to fix. As I stated in my original post, information on Litespeeds website and an initial response kept me from considering their current frames. And since I went through the trouble to post that information, I felt the correct response on my part should be to post their follow up and correction.
    Last edited by Yerma; 10-05-2012 at 04:57 PM.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.