New Litespeed Ghisallo....? (Not for me...)
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  1. #1
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider47
    The final result of my examination - you won't find me riding one of these frames! I know that it will be flexy on the road, because it flexed in my hand. I gripped the downtube near the bottom and simply squeezed....and the tube flexed inwards like a pop/beer can under both my thumb and forefinger - and I am not exactly a gorilla when it comes to arm/hand strength. I am well aware that the tube can probably hold its shape when a rider is seated on it properly, but I cannot imagine feeling comfortable speeding down a hill at 70 to 80 kmph, knowing that there is a bend coming at the bottom of the hill. It simply felt like a somewhat stiff pop/beer can. It may be light, but there comes point when lightness becomes a liability - I can't imagine where Litespeed is coming from on this...but from their perspective - it sure is light in weight...maybe the lightest production frame being made!...(
    EasyRider47
    I certainly don't mean to insult you, but what you tried has nothing to do with how stiff the frame is. In fact you can check various other light bikes and even some heavier ones and you will be able to duplicate that experience too. Titanium likes to go back to its shape, so it would be hard to make a dent in it.
    As for stiffness, anyone who has ridden this new Ghisallo was quite impressed with the stiffness.
    Cheers,
    Herbert

    Litespeed

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    ooops, double post
    Last edited by HerbertK; 01-24-2006 at 10:49 AM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider47
    Hi Herbert:

    FYI - if you doubt what I have suggested - try it yourself........

    EasyRider47
    Again, there was never a question of whether what you did could be duplicated, I can just assure you that it has nothing to do with its stiffness or rideability. I am 6'2" 194 pounds and while no longer superfast (former pro mountain biker) to this day I can hold my own among local cyclists and have been testing various Ghisallo incarnations over the years. The 2006 is the stiffest (and lightest) version we have built so far and several riders have confirmed that. Our bikes are crafted in a fairly mountainous part of the country and we have plenty of steep ascents and descents here where all bikes get tested. Without trying to sound to brash here, there aren't too many local guys who'd outclimb or outdescend me here on the little beauty pictured below.
    Remember also that kicking the tires of a new car, or squeezing the dropouts of any bike frame does not tell you anything either about the drivability or rideability of those. :-)
    Cheers,
    Herbert
    Litespeed



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    Hi there,
    I am really sorry that this thread has gone in this direction. I actually thought it was quite clear that I worked for Litespeed and have never hidden it unlike many other companies or bikeshops here. In fact anyone who clicked on my profile always cleary could and still can see who I am and where I work.
    The bike pictured is my personal bike that I ride all the time and thus this pic was taken by me on my personal camera in front of my house after a ride. I am as proud and happy about the bikes I ride and the rides I do as most other people on this forum, and just like anyone else here, I like to talk about it.
    As for speaking forums like this, yes they are for cyclists to interact, but that is me too.

    Cheers,
    Herbert
    Director of Marketing
    Litespeed

  8. #8
    Juanmoretime
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    HerbertK.

    Herbert, it apears that you might have just been dropped from EasyRider47's Christmas card list.

    EasyRider47, I don't think that someone's occupation has any bearing here. Sure Herbert works for Litespeed. If his bike didn't work for him he wouldn't ride it. Granted he wouldn't post it in threads all over the place that the bike sucks but from the postings I've seen over at weight weenies and all the upgrades he's made since the first build up I would say he rides his bike and likes it. There is nothing wrong with this and having a strong opinion about it.

    This forum is for cyclist to express their opinion. You can disagree. HerbertK is a cyclist.
    Last edited by Juanmoretime; 01-26-2006 at 11:53 AM.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  9. #9
    "It's all about style."
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    I second that.
    "It's better to look good, than to feel good."

  10. #10
    06 Ghisallo Dream Machine
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    06 Ghisallo

    In my opinion the 06 model is superior in every way to the previous years. It is much stiffer, lighter and just looks better with the shaped tubes. I had an 02 Ghisallo and have ridden every model in between. The 06 descends much better due to the increased stiffness. Burkhalter Gap is a local climb that is commonly refered to as "The Beast" It is a monster that is a true test of a bikes climbing ability (as well as your legs) The descent is Scary Fast 45-50 mph without peddling. The last time I descended it I forgot to zip my jacket at the top. I had enough confidence to pull both hands off the bars and fumble with the zipper. A couple of guys that I ride with did not want to believe that a frame could lose weight but ride like I claimed that it did. They both work at local shops that do not carry Litespeed. They BOTH were amazed at the new ride. One of the two had previously worked for one of the worlds biggest Litespeed dealers. He has ridden every model that Litespeed has produced in the last few years and even he was impressed. He compared it to the new version of the Tuscany in regards to handling/stiffness. These were opinions from people who did Not want to like the bike simply because it was a Litespeed.

    Easy Rider you and I have exchanged PMs in regards to how amazingly similar our own Litespeeds are set up. (as well as our thoughts on the Easton EC90 stem) I do respect your opinion but I think you should actually ride an 06 before you or the guys at the shop pass judgement. If you check out the thread on Weight Weenies you will see they are trying to get together to actually test ride several offering from Litespeed as well as Scott and perhaps Giant. If you want to make the ride from all the way from Canada to Chattanooga your welcome to try my 06 as well. It looks like it may happen around the time the Tour De Georgia passes through here.

    I should let you know that I do Not work for Litespeed even though I live/ride here in Chattanooga. The shop that I have ridden for the last couple of years does not even carry Litespeed. As far as Herbert is concerned I don't think he is trying to pretend that he does not work for Litespeed. Check out his posts at Weight Weenies. He has always been very upfront about that fact.

  11. #11

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    Away from the war

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbertK
    Again, there was never a question of whether what you did could be duplicated, I can just assure you that it has nothing to do with its stiffness or rideability. I am 6'2" 194 pounds and while no longer superfast (former pro mountain biker) to this day I can hold my own among local cyclists and have been testing various Ghisallo incarnations over the years. The 2006 is the stiffest (and lightest) version we have built so far and several riders have confirmed that. Our bikes are crafted in a fairly mountainous part of the country and we have plenty of steep ascents and descents here where all bikes get tested. Without trying to sound to brash here, there aren't too many local guys who'd outclimb or outdescend me here on the little beauty pictured below.
    Remember also that kicking the tires of a new car, or squeezing the dropouts of any bike frame does not tell you anything either about the drivability or rideability of those. :-)
    Cheers,
    Herbert
    Litespeed


    Herbert,
    What's your wheelset. I can't seem to ID it. Real Design? Dura Ace? Clincher? Weight? I'm just interested to know what a Director of Marketing would use on such light frame. Thanks in advance! Ride hard!!!
    Last edited by DirtFace; 01-26-2006 at 10:42 AM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtFace
    Herbert,
    What's your wheelset. I can't seem to ID it. Real Design? Dura Ace? Clincher? Weight? I'm just interested to know what a Director of Marketing would use on such light frame. Thanks in advance! Ride hard!!!

    The wheels are Real Design Supersphere clinchers and they weigh 1430gr for a pair and they are my eveyday wheels. We hand lace those wheels here in our facility in Ooltewah, TN but they are not available as aftermarket wheels. Sometimes though you can find them on eBay.
    I still have not decided on getting some ultralight race wheels for this bike, but for now I would race on these Superspheres.

    Cheers,
    Herbert

    Litespeed

  13. #13
    FTF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmoretime
    Herbert, it apears that you might have just been dropped from EasyRider47's Christmas card list.

    EasyRider47, I don't think that someone's occupation has any bearing here. Sure Herbert works for Litespeed. If his bike didn't work for him he wouldn't ride it. Granted he wouldn't post in in threads all over the place that the bike sucks but from the postings I've seen over at weight weenies and all the upgrades he's made since the first build up I would say he rides his bike and likes it. There is nothing wrong with this and having a strong opinion about it.

    This forum is for cyclist to express their opinion. You can disagree. HerbertK is a cyclist.
    I "know" herbert from another forum, and as far as I can tell, he's on the up and up. I find his opinion to be with out any more bias than anyone else. And hell he's got a ritchey fork on that thing.....

  14. #14

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    As a former Litespeed owner, I've been impressed with their product. I know it's disconcerting that you can squeeze the tubes, but you can do that on the downtube of carbon TT bikes as well. That seems to have little bearing on stiffness.

    Personally, I'd love to own a Ghisallo, but in my opinion, it's grossly overpriced.

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  16. #16

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    Cycling Weekly, the largest cycling publication in the UK actually had a very positive review on the same bike if you are so interested in setting the record straight.
    http://www.litespeed.com/reviews/cyc...ekly_12-05.pdf
    As for you, I really appreciate that very unusual endless pursuit of finding facts and opinions you are displaying here. That shows great passion and enthusiasm to all things cycling.
    But it also brings up the question, who is this anonymous poster with almost 20 highend bikes in his arsenal? Are you Robin Williams by any chance?



    Herbert

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  18. #18
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    another defender of Ghisallo here. Nice bike.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyRider47
    a chance to chat further.

    BTW - Is the Compact Vortex as good as they say? (I was also looking for one of the Special Edition Compact Vortexes (Vortices?) from a year or two ago).

    Take it easy,
    Easyrider47
    .
    I personally like the new Vortex Compact better than the previous limited edition, but that is mostly an aethetic reason. I have spent quite a bit of time on the current one to be able to say that I like it, but have not spend a minute on the the limited one so I can't really say how they compare.

    Herbert
    Litespeed
    www.litespeed.com

  20. #20
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    Herbert,

    Does going to a 31.6mm seattube really stiffen up the frame more than a 27.2mm on the Merlin Extralight.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemond2001
    Herbert,

    Does going to a 31.6mm seattube really stiffen up the frame more than a 27.2mm on the Merlin Extralight.
    Oversizing does help indeed, but what in this specific bike design helps even more is the very flared tubeshape of that seattube at the bottom bracket. Plus the seatube in itself is really only part of the puzzle. It is truly a combination of all tubes, their specific tube shapes and sizes, plus the material and the wall thickness.
    I hope that makes sense.

    Herbert

  22. #22
    Juanmoretime
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    I test rode Herbert's bike at the TDG.

    Yesterday after a run with Herbert he asked me to ride his Ghisallo and comment on the frame.

    First picking the bike up it has great to front to back balance verses my Vortex which seems to carry most of the weight. Another thing is before this Herbert always insisted that a medium large size frame would fit me best, his is a medium large. From what I could see from the specifications on Litespeeds website I calculated a large. After hopping on Herbert's bike I found out I was wrong! I did a quick seated cycling shoe heal on the pedal at six oclock and it appears that we have the same saddle height because it was perfect. Saddle fore and aft looked right to. We had noticed a couple of days before that the sun casted a shadow on a truck in front of us with our bikes on the roff rack and the saddle heights appeared indentical. Getting on the carbon Arione felt had a good fit and felt comfortable, no I won't be trading my C64's in for this saddle but it is comfy. Off I rolled grabbing onto the bars and instantly felt right at home with the same rounded pro bend shape as my Kestrel EMS Pro SL. Right off to bat position on the bike was good and the only thing that felt differnet from my set up was the Dura Ace shifters. Pedaling on the bike it seemed as though the power I was putting to the cranks was shooting me forward. It also has the somewhat stiff ride that tells you that this is a race bike with just enough vertical compliance to keep you comfortable and absolutely no more than that. The WCS fork did a good job of aborbing road shock and was plenty stiff. The frame and fork combination was extremely stable feeling great while decending and cornering hard. I did a couple of up hill sprints and the bike just took off like a rocket. The Ghisallo is not just stiff for its weight, it's just stiff period. The frame is every bit as stiff and gives the same quality of ride as my Vortex and it weighs over a pound less. While I didn't do an epic ride on it I did ride it long enough to get a good feel overall for the bike and rode it mostly on fast rollers with plenty of high speed curves in the road.

    I honestly think Litespeed was right on the money with the Ghisallo. Now I just need to convice the wife I need one and then figure out how to pay for it.
    _________________
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  23. #23
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    I think...

    Robin Williams has about 60 bikes, and I would figure that many of them would be Treks? I would to have a new Ghisallo, however I need to save some serious cash for one of those and probably lose a bit more weight

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