2018 NBA Playoffs - Page 4
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    I do note how you both use, and discount, long term stats and in the moment swings in the game... when they suit your purposes.
    If you'd care to quote specific examples, we can talk about 'em.


    I get what you are saying. It boils down to "the team that lost should have done something different." This is not an unusual way to make your case, people do it all the time.
    I think a careful reading of what I said would not lead one to oversimplify my analysis to that extent.

    Really, it would not matter if Houston had won (though the way they are currently set up vs the way Golden State is makes that unlikely). The point is, they are operating under a system that ensures a lot of wins over the long haul (the regular season), but that is not reliable for the short haul, i.e. a single game or a playoff series. Winning or losing one series with Golden State would not change that.

    And, to note it again, D'Antoni's 14 season history as an NBA coach follows that exact pattern... lots of regular season success, followed by consistent playoff disappointment.


    Should a team that did well in the regular season, and made the conference finals, change their play? Usually, no. Would suddenly trying to make mid range jumpers, which they did not do a lot all year, and which their offense (and rebounding scheme) is not set up for, have led to the win? I doubt it.
    Thank you for agreeing with me. As I said in an earlier post in the thread:

    SystemShock: "So, you're throwing up enough bricks from 3-point land to build a new Empire State Building. Do you [Houston] stop shooting 'em? Nope. Because you've got no midrange game to fall back on."


    Yeah, they missed a lot of shots. Open threes included. But the counterfactual that they WOULD have made those midrange jumpers is up in the air.
    See above.


    GS is the best team ever, in the opinion of some, and in the conversation for many. Houston took them to 7 and was up on them in game 7. With CP out.
    Kudos to Houston, but it should be noted that while CP3 (his actual nickname) was out for two games, Andre Iguodala, a key player for the Warriors, was out for four games, i.e. double that.

    Warriors coach Steve Kerr stated that the Warriors would've won the series in five games had Andre not been out, and from where I sit, I'm inclined to believe him. Maybe it could've gone six in that event.

    Which is not to take too much away from the Rockets. They had a terrific regular season, going 65-17, and were able to handle the two overmatched opponents they faced in the first two rounds of the playoffs pretty well.


    The only thing Houston did wrong is miss their shots. Shots they made all year, shots they made in the wins in the playoffs. I get why they say they would do the same thing again, because they would not miss that many shots again.
    They would do the same thing again because they don't really know how to do anything different, with the exception (ironically) of CP3, who actually has a pretty strong midrange game. Not that Coach D'Antoni wants him to use it much.

    Look Q, we both understand basic statistics/math. If you're flipping a coin that's weighted to come up heads 51% of the time, then taking a bet that after 10,000 coin flips, heads will come up more times than tails becomes an ironclad, Fort-Knox-safe bet. But for 10 coin flips, it is much, much less of a safe bet.

    That's what the Rockets system is like. It works extremely well over the long regular season. But, if their shooters are cold from 3-point land in a single game or over a series, there isn't that much of a fallback position for them.

    What's funny is that the Warriors have even better 3-point shooters than Houston does. And they do take a lot of 3s. But, not nearly as many as Houston does. In part because, if you're picky about the looks you get on your 3s you tend to shoot less of them, but at a higher percentage (and GS shoots a fantastic percentage on their 3s), but also because GS knows that in order to have a reliable fallback, you have to actually USE said fallback (i.e. the midrange game) fairly regularly.

    IOW, you can't just suddenly change the way you play on a dime, as you and I agreed on earlier in the discussion.

    One other factor: Fatigue. When shooters get tired, their legs start to go, and their shots tend to come up short. D'Antoni played mostly a six-player rotation in Game 7, and Houston got tired. And it was from the mid-second quarter on that they started bricking almost all of their 3s. Coincidence? Probably not.


    I think Houston has the game, and the personnel to win it all. What they don't have, to my eye, is the attitude and the grit to fight every minute of the playoffs against opponents who have been there, done that. Maybe they learned their lesson, maybe not.

    And maybe Harden will figure out why he sucks so often in the 4th quarter. That would be a good thing for Houston if he found a way to bust that tendency.
    If you look at the game, Houston had all the fight in the world early in the game. They came out on fire, really, ready to fight the world. And they got up by as many as 15 or 17 points before the Warriors really started to fight back.

    But, they got tired. Because it's hard to sustain that level of emotion for the length of an entire NBA game. At some point, you come back to Earth, and 'then you have to play basketball', as Kerr noted.

    And, as previously noted, D'Antoni's short rotation increased the fatigue level. And thus Harden's 'tendency to suck in the 4th quarter' as you put it.

    Houston needs a stronger bench, so that the above is less of a problem, but they also need a better fallback for when their 3s aren't going in. Perhaps D'Antoni will learn from this setback, and adapt.

    But it may be hard for him to do so, as he is a pioneer (some would say THE pioneer) of '3-ball', as some refer to it. He's had to fight stubbornly all his career for 'his' way of playing to be taken seriously, and when it becomes a sort of ideological war, your position can become hardened, and it can make it harder to accept criticism or the notion that you might have to change some things.

    Kerr, on the other hand Ė who was GM of the Phoenix Suns at the same time D'Antoni was their head coach Ė had the benefit of coming in late, taking things from D'Antoni's approach that worked, leaving out the things that didn't, and then setting them up within a larger system that does seem to work better, on the whole.

    He actually does own D'Antoni quite a lot, though I'm sure that he, like most head-coach types, would not want to acknowledge the full scale of said debt.

    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  2. #77
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    Game 1 of the Finals.

    Well... that was insane.

    I would not want to be JR Smith right now. Or some of the refs.

    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Game 1 of the Finals.

    Well... that was insane.

    I would not want to be JR Smith right now. Or some of the refs.

    .
    Smith must have lost his cool under pressure. Could have called a TO or at least passed it off to an open teammate. Oh well, thatís the way the ball bounces.

    Lebron couldnít have done any more than he did. Too bad heís stuck with a bunch of duds. Again.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    Smith must have lost his cool under pressure. Could have called a TO or at least passed it off to an open teammate. Oh well, thatís the way the ball bounces.

    Lebron couldnít have done any more than he did. Too bad heís stuck with a bunch of duds. Again.
    +1. I have to wonder if the JR Smith debacle (and LeBron scoring 51 and still losing) might be the last straw far as his decision to stay in Cleveland or leave again goes.

    I mean, at this point, would anyone really blame him for bailing?

    CLE has to win these Finals for him to stay, I think.

    For me, I'm kinda rooting for LBJ to go to the Lakers and help revive the classic Celtics-Lakers rivalry. Kyrie vs LeBron. It'd be pretty cool.


    (except of course that they probably wouldn't meet in the Finals for quite some time, given the Warriors and to some extent the Rockets being major roadblocks standing in the way of such a meeting. barring some absolutely amazing trades and free agent acquisitions. )




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    Last edited by SystemShock; 06-01-2018 at 04:00 AM.
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  5. #80
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    Wow. The Cleveland newspapers are absolutely killing JR Smith.

    This headline from the Plain Dealer:

    JR Smith loses mind, Cavaliers drop Game 1 in OT



    https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index...rt_maj-story-1

    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Game 1 of the Finals.

    Well... that was insane.

    I would not want to be JR Smith right now. Or some of the refs.

    .
    It was definitely played at a high intensity level. Fun to watch for sure.

    Here's hoping for more of that for the rest of the games.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Game 1 of the Finals.

    Well... that was insane.

    I would not want to be JR Smith right now. Or some of the refs.

    .

    Cavs aren't going to get many gifts like this...

    Lol JR...and everyone thought throwing soup was dumb.

  8. #83
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  9. #84
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    I donít think LeBron can continue to play iso ball the entire series . Once GS makes a adjustment for that the rest of team has to show up .


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  10. #85
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    Green and Curry suspended for unsportsmanlike conduct --- CAVs in FIVE.

    *****************

    To be unsportsmanlike is to act in a manner unbecoming to the image of professional basketball. It consists of acts of deceit, disrespect of officials and profanity. The penalty for such action is a technical foul. Repeated acts shall result in expulsion from the game and a minimum fine of $1000.

    A flagrant foul-penalty (1) is unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent.

    A flagrant foul-penalty (2) is unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. It is an unsportsmanlike act and the offender is ejected immediately.

    The offender will be subject to a fine not exceeding $35,000 and/or suspension by the Commissioner.
    Last edited by troutmd; 06-01-2018 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post

    LOLZ. The JR Smith-related jpegs and memes comin' out of Game 1 have been awesome.































    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  12. #87
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    lol.

  13. #88
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    ^ LOLZ.

    CLE lost again tonight, are down 0-2 in the Finals.

    But JR Smith says he's not worried, is "sure the Cavs will still win it in 9."

    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  14. #89
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    Btw, for those of you who watch SportsCenter (I only started 'cuz of the Finals)... is it just me, or does Stephen A. Smith suck something awful as a commentator/analyst?

    He seems to have a simple four-step repertoire...

    Step 1: Overreact to whatever just happened in sports-land
    Step 2: YELL said overreaction so everyone knows JUST HOW SERIOUS HE IS
    Step 3: Offer absolutely NOTHING in the way of deep or meaningful analysis
    Step 4: Close his mini-tirade with a joke or a smile so you think, "Aww, he's one of us"



    Seriously, just about the biggest d-bag I've seen in his line of work. And ESPN can't put him on often enough.


    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Btw, for those of you who watch SportsCenter (I only started 'cuz of the Finals)... is it just me, or does Stephen A. Smith suck something awful as a commentator/analyst?

    He seems to have a simple four-step repertoire...

    Step 1: Overreact to whatever just happened in sports-land
    Step 2: YELL said overreaction so everyone knows JUST HOW SERIOUS HE IS
    Step 3: Offer absolutely NOTHING in the way of deep or meaningful analysis
    Step 4: Close his mini-tirade with a joke or a smile so you think, "Aww, he's one of us"



    Seriously, just about the biggest d-bag I've seen in his line of work. And ESPN can't put him on often enough.


    .
    That's a pretty accurate summary. Incendiary sells. I guess I'm numb to his schtick at this point. That said, Michael Wilbon is a calming 180deg when they're side by side.

    Regardless, Ernie, Charles, Kenny and Shaq are the only ones that should be allowed nba commentary.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckice View Post
    Regardless, Ernie, Charles, Kenny and Shaq [the Inside the NBA crew] are the only ones that should be allowed nba commentary.
    +1. They're probably the overall best NBA commentator crew on TV. Well, when Chuck n' Shaq aren't wasting half the show needling each other that is.

    For online, I really like The Ringer. Here's a good article from them, on how LeBron being the in-effect GM of the Cavs has, well, led to their current difficulties:

    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6...nals-teammates



    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  17. #92
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    PTI is simple straight forward .

    Stephen A. Seems like he changes his opinion every other day . One day somebody sucks the next their awesome . Or same with teams .


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  18. #93
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    Game 3 upcoming tonight. Otherwise known as, The Cav's Last Standô. 'Cuz they can't go down 0-3 and expect to have any chance in this thing.

    Would expect them to play better than they played in Game 2. CLE really is a different team at home.

    If the Cavs can play a more physical game, while actually knocking down whatever wide-open looks they get (so far they haven't, and are shooting only 29% from three in general), then they have a good chance tonight.

    It's gonna be hard, though.

    Durant has re-discovered his 'efficient' play-style, i.e. operating within the flow of the Warrior's ball- and player-movement offense, rather than just iso'ing and forcing up difficult shots. Curry is obviously back to 100% now, and is a threat to go off on a hot streak at any time. And Igoudala, the Warrior's best LeBron defender, may finally (no pun intended) be back in action tonight.

    So, big mountain to climb. But this is the Cavs' best (last?) opportunity to get a meaningful win and change the story/momentum. Nothing like going back home, and there must be a sort of 'well, just eff it' mentality in the back of their minds at this point that should let them play looser and freer.

    .
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  19. #94
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    The constant complaining and crying on every play is getting painful to watch . Especially LeBron and dreymon .


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  20. #95
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    Great game tonight.

  21. #96
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    The Cavs have the Warriors right where they want them.

  22. #97
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    I was laughing at Bron when he walked away from the ISO on KD. The game was lost on that weak move by Bron. KD sank that crazy 25ft plus 3 pointer and it was effectively over.

  23. #98
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    Frankly, I was shocked by this game.

    The Cavs came up out with TREMENDOUS energy. LeBron had 33 points and a triple-double. Kevin Love played lights-out in the first-half, wound up with 20 pts and 13 rebounds in just 31 minutes. JR 'Whats the score?' Smith and Rodney Hood (yes, Rodney Hood) stepped up and were effective. And the Cavs continued to slaughter GS on the offensive boards (CLE got 11 more shot attempts than GS). All on a night where Curry goes an ice-cold 1-for-10 from three, and Klay Thompson is quiet as a mouse.

    And. the. Cavs. STILL. LOSE.

    A lot of it was Kevin Durant having a total monster night (43/13/7), but it was more than that. Whether it was by over-concentrating on Curry and Thompson on the perimeter (cheating towards them, trapping, doubling), or very bad communication, or both, the Cavs' defense was just an absolute sieve inside.

    Lost track of how many easy layups and dunks the Warriors got off of quick passes to someone cutting to the basket. Multiple someones. Anybody-who-wanted-to-someones. And that play was there. ALL. NIGHT. LONG. NO effective adjustments. WTF?

    Durant was the story of the night, but the Warriors had *five* other guys in double-figures besides him. Everyone outside of the four GS All-Stars shot a combined 16-for-23. IOW, the Cavs' defense made the likes of Jordan Bell look great.

    And while Igoudala wasn't 100%, he gave what he could, including a crucial steal from Love in the final minutes.

    And, so much respect for Durant. He scored on all three levels - midrange, three, and at the basket - early and often, and never really let up. He outplayed LeBron.

    So, I just don't know what to say. I expected the Cavs to offer more resistance than this. (And yeah, they actually did in Game 1, but missed their chance). But it's been the story of teams vs the Warriors this postseason - they come out ON FIRE, get a solid first-half lead, but, then... the Warriors don't panic, and eventually the other teams' emotional high wears off, they come back to Earth, and 'then they have to play basketball'.

    And the Warriors are just better at that than anyone else. Better system, better personnel, better coaching. Just. better.

    Yup, even when Curry has an absolute crap offensive night, as he did tonight.

    Game 4 will be interesting. It'll be the Cavs total 'f**k it' game, their 'don't let them celebrate on our home floor' game, their wounded-animal-trapped-in-the-corner game. It will say a lot about their mentality and their resiliency, how they play on Friday.

    If they just roll over (and maybe even if they don't), does LeBron then pack his bags and go to LA or Houston or Philly? Or does he stay, and blow up and rebuild the team yet again? That's the off-season NBA reality show I'm looking forward to.

    Best of luck with that, LeBron.





    .
    Last edited by SystemShock; 06-07-2018 at 03:07 AM.
    MH: I want to go like my Dad did, peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Sys: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that the children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Frankly, I was shocked by this game.
    Frankly, I wasn't. Cleveland's D has had issues all year, GS is the perfect team to exploit those issues.

    And pretty much the issues every other team has as well.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  25. #100
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    Clevelandís D was exposed so many times . And when it happens LeBron just looks around with his hands in the air lol


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