Federal Pandemic Unemployment Compensation (FPUC) Loophole?
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  1. #1
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    Federal Pandemic Unemployment Compensation (FPUC) Loophole?

    I was arguing with my buddy today about the federal $600 weekly supplemental checks being issued to unemployed people.

    My understanding is:
    1. You're unemployed.
    2. You apply for and get state unemployment benefits.
    3. If you get #2, you're eligible for the federal $600 additional payments.

    He's trying to tell me there's some loophole in the law that's allowing currently employed (and he claims some of his coworkers have told him directly they are doing this) and working individuals to collect that same $600 WHILE THEY ARE STILL WORKING.

    I call B.S. I can't find any reference to such a loophole. If this is just a loophole in a particular state, the state we're discussing is Connecticut.

    Can you help me ferret out the truth?

  2. #2
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    I’ve never heard of that kind of loophole. I guess calling it a loophole sounds better than what it probably is: fraud.

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    I'm uniquely qualified here...because I've been laid-off for 4 months and have been lucky enough to even GET unemployment. And got FPUC

    So.

    Peter P, You are 100% correct, within the extent of my knowledge (Nebraska). The FPUC payment ONLY COMES via STATE UNEMPLOYMENT. If you are not qualified via state UE benefits and are receiving FPUC benefits then that is all but certainly FRAUD and is a CRIME. Your buddy is a classic ignorant fool who doesn't know what he is talking about.


    Another quirk....in Nebraska, if you get ANY LEAVE time that meets/exceeds the value of the STATE UE normal payment--the state withholds the federal $600 as well. Which can really screw you. Many people are desperate and are getting paid "more" than they were earning--but that is only because they were paid DIRT beforehand and were being abused by employers.
    Last edited by Marc; 6 Days Ago at 05:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    I was arguing with my buddy today about the federal $600 weekly supplemental checks being issued to unemployed people.

    My understanding is:
    1. You're unemployed.
    2. You apply for and get state unemployment benefits.
    3. If you get #2, you're eligible for the federal $600 additional payments.

    He's trying to tell me there's some loophole in the law that's allowing currently employed (and he claims some of his coworkers have told him directly they are doing this) and working individuals to collect that same $600 WHILE THEY ARE STILL WORKING.

    I call B.S. I can't find any reference to such a loophole. If this is just a loophole in a particular state, the state we're discussing is Connecticut.

    Can you help me ferret out the truth?
    Complete bullshit. While I was out of work, I got my regular NYUI benefits plus the $600, when I went back to work, they both stopped. It was a sweet ride while it lasted, and I could've squeezed another month out of it, but I'm glad I 'got ahead of the herd'. Things look like they won't be back to normal for a while. I figure the bleakness is about to really start. It's going to be a long autumn with a lot of people scraping the bottom in order to keep ahead of debts...
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

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    I've got more info to add to my original post.

    Said worker at my friend's employment is currently working reduced hours due to the reduction in business because of the pandemic.

    There is a program available in CT, as well as in other states, called the Shared Work program.

    The employer, not the employee applies to the program.

    Here's how the program works:

    Employee has a reduction in hours from full-time employment, in this case from 40 to 32 hours.

    They receive PARTIAL unemployment compensation.

    According to the law, even if the employee receives $1 in weekly unemployment compensation, they will be eligible for the $600 supplemental benefit as well.

    (Unemployment benefits don't usually equal 100% of the worker's wages.)

    I'm guessing my friend either doesn't understand what the hourly worker is telling him or the worker is telling him that, even with the reduction in hours/lost wages, unemployment compensation PLUS the $600 supplemental benefit means they are being paid more than if they were working 40 hours.

    Now here's where I could see a scam: Say your spouse/friend/whatever is the principle in a company and you're an hourly worker there as well. Your "employer" wants to do you a favor without any money out of their pocket, so they unnecessarily reduce your hours so you can derive the benefit of the unemployment compensation plus the $600. That advantage may be afforded to you because of your relationship to the employer, while other otherwise eligible employees would not receive the same treatment.

  6. #6
    wots...uh the deal?
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    Not sure on the legalities, but is there opportunity for someone to abuse this? Of course. More a matter of how many or how much abuse. Can't do anything about it now (besides discuss over in PO!) I've heard worse about the current unemployment benefit situation. And, it bothers me. But, passing the package quickly and without too much red tape seems to have worked. I do hope the next (if any) is pro-rated, not to exceed "income of regular hours" etc. But with so many folks working reduced hours, flexible schedules in the first place, the stoopid American system of restaurant servers hourly wage and tips.... it was a mess to begin with.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmoose View Post
    Not sure on the legalities, but is there opportunity for someone to abuse this? Of course. More a matter of how many or how much abuse. Can't do anything about it now (besides discuss over in PO!) I've heard worse about the current unemployment benefit situation. And, it bothers me. But, passing the package quickly and without too much red tape seems to have worked. I do hope the next (if any) is pro-rated, not to exceed "income of regular hours" etc. But with so many folks working reduced hours, flexible schedules in the first place, the stoopid American system of restaurant servers hourly wage and tips.... it was a mess to begin with.
    What are "regular hours", the gig economy is increasingly a thing as big business tries to dump paying people's health insurance. Already Unemplyment tries to base it on a year's pay--but years can vary severely/wildly one year to another.

    Almost no one is "getting rich". Most are barely making due. Most of those on unemployment were on the financial brink anyway--even if they are earning more than "regular hours"--it barely makes up for what they haven't been earning all along. There's a reason a supermajority of Americans don't even have a saving's account.


    And the most insane/aggravating thing of it all...people get upset about people "earning more than regular hours"....meanwhile the federal unemployment money is a DROP in a BUCKET compared to the billions of USD Trump's own advisors directly attained for churches found guilty of sexual abuse. Trump's own people actually directly solicited churches telling them to apply for aid they didn't need because they could get it interest-free....NVM "small business" aid that was sent to military defense contractors. In the grand scheme of things, any "overpayment" in unemployment is a weed compared to the veritable forrest of graft and corruption that went on with "business" bailouts.
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  8. #8
    pmf
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    You have to be unemployed to get the supplemental unemployment money. Plenty of people who were doing just fine collecting their paychecks got stimulus money though. The solution to everything, right? ... throw money at it.

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    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    You have to be unemployed to get the supplemental unemployment money. Plenty of people who were doing just fine collecting their paychecks got stimulus money though. The solution to everything, right? ... throw money at it.
    Say, whose name went out on those checks, anyway?
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  10. #10
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Say, whose name went out on those checks, anyway?
    I wouldn't know, I'm rich.

  11. #11
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I wouldn't know, I'm rich.

    Good for you. But just so you know, a lot of folks aren't, and a lot of folks really weren't doing just fine in the past few months, what with the economy cratering in the worst way.

    Re whose name went out on the checks, this may be informative for you:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ks/5135921002/
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  12. #12
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Good for you. But just so you know, a lot of folks aren't, and a lot of folks really weren't doing just fine in the past few months, what with the economy cratering in the worst way.

    Re whose name went out on the checks, this may be informative for you:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ks/5135921002/
    Yeah, I too read the newspaper. I'm sure the outrage in PO was off the charts.

    I don't lament not getting any of that money because I don't need it. And neither did a lot of people who received it. Does a Federal employee, sitting at home working and getting paid $160k a year deserve stimulus money? $2800 of it according to the calculator CNN had on their site. The people who really need the help are low income service workers, small business owners, etc. And they didn't get enough. I don't dispute that people need help, but the way this was done was idiotic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Yeah, I too read the newspaper. I'm sure the outrage in PO was off the charts.

    I don't lament not getting any of that money because I don't need it. And neither did a lot of people who received it. Does a Federal employee, sitting at home working and getting paid $160k a year deserve stimulus money? $2800 of it according to the calculator CNN had on their site. The people who really need the help are low income service workers, small business owners, etc. And they didn't get enough. I don't dispute that people need help, but the way this was done was idiotic.
    No one making 160k a year got 2800.. my wife and I who combined make a non specific amount which may be more or less than what you just posted, received $700 between the two of us. Did we need it, no, but I made sure to spend it on local businesses....

    As for why it was done that way... well lets call it Trump trying to buy his reelection... and that it would have taken too long to send different values to different people based on income AND those who fall well below the poverty levels and don't file taxes. To get it out to the public as quickly as possible, necessitated just sending it to everyone.

  14. #14
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    To answer your question directly ... Technically, yes.

    The CARES act allowed individuals that had their work hours reduced due to COVID could file for unemployment based on the reduced hours. So, they were still working, but potentially went from full time to half time ... they could file for unemployment to make up for the lost 20 hours per week, and would also qualify for the additional $600 per week benefit.

    With that said, I'm not sure how many people could handle having their hours reduced by half and still be able to pay the bills, but I'm guessing it's not a large number.

    Remember, UI only covers approximately 60% of previous income up to a certain point. If you had a large salary you had large bills and UI wouldn't cover monthly expenses. The additional $600, was to help everybody and some people came out ahead, others are still behind what they were making.

    So, this makes sense that, not only could they file for unemployment, but also get the additional funding.

    This also applied to self employed and "GIG" workers ... if you lost all of your "GIG's" or even a substantial portion of them, or if your contracts were lost due to employers or individuals no longer having funds to pay for your services ... you were allowed to file for unemployment and would qualify for the extra $600 per week.

    My preference would have been to just give people the same amount they were making before the lay off, however ... that's almost impossible for the Unemployment office to calculate in an efficient manner, and they struggled enough as it is with all the new claims.

    "IF" congress can get something passed, I'm guessing the number will drop into the "$300 - $400" per month range moving forward.
    Voting isn't marriage - it's public transport. You are not waiting for "The One" who is absolutely perfect. You are getting on the bus, and if there isn't one going exactly to your destination you don't stay at home and sulk - you take the one going closest to where you want to be!

  15. #15
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Yeah, I too read the newspaper.

    ...

    I don't lament not getting any of that money because I don't need it. And neither did a lot of people who received it. Does a Federal employee, sitting at home working and getting paid $160k a year deserve stimulus money? $2800 of it according to the calculator CNN had on their site. The people who really need the help are low income service workers, small business owners, etc. And they didn't get enough. I don't dispute that people need help, but the way this was done was idiotic.

    You read the newspaper, yet you "wouldn't know" whose name was on those checks?

    OK.

    Did you use the same keen perception to decide that "a lot of people" didn't need their stimulus check money, too?

    BTW, according to the CNN calculator page:

    "Individuals are eligible for up to $1,200 and couples would receive up to $2,400 -- plus $500 per child. But the payments would start phasing out for individuals with adjusted gross incomes of more than $75,000. The amount would then be reduced by $5 for every additional $100 of adjusted gross income, and those making more than $99,000 would not receive anything. The income thresholds are doubled for married couples."

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/polit...tor/index.html

    CNN took the calculator off (since it was no longer needed), but H&R Block has this handy:

    Stimulus check eligibility & Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) ranges
    Filing Status Low ThresholdIf your AGI is below this amount, you’ll qualify for the full $1,200 (per person) stimulus payment. High ThresholdIf your AGI is above this amount, you won’t qualify for any of the $1,200 (per person) stimulus payment.
    Single Less than $75,000 $99,000
    Married Filing Jointly Less than $150,000 $198,000
    Head of Household Less than $112,000 $136,500
    https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/f...k-eligibility/

    So, a lone federal employee who made $160K/yr. would not get a check. You must've specified a married couple with children when you did your calculations.

    Good to know that you don't dispute that people need help, but it's sure hard to tell from your posts, when you say such things as "a lot of people don't need it," "plenty of people were doing just fine collecting their paychecks," and disparage stimulus payments as "throwing money at" the problem.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  16. #16
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljvb View Post
    No one making 160k a year got 2800.. my wife and I who combined make a non specific amount which may be more or less than what you just posted, received $700 between the two of us. Did we need it, no, but I made sure to spend it on local businesses....

    As for why it was done that way... well lets call it Trump trying to buy his reelection... and that it would have taken too long to send different values to different people based on income AND those who fall well below the poverty levels and don't file taxes. To get it out to the public as quickly as possible, necessitated just sending it to everyone.

    ^This. The idea behind the checks was that people would take the money and spend it, stimulating economic activity.

    I did my part for America by purchasing a bunch of bike stuff.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  17. #17
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    You read the newspaper, yet you "wouldn't know" whose name was on those checks?

    OK.

    Did you use the same keen perception to decide that "a lot of people" didn't need their stimulus check money, too?

    BTW, according to the CNN calculator page:

    "Individuals are eligible for up to $1,200 and couples would receive up to $2,400 -- plus $500 per child. But the payments would start phasing out for individuals with adjusted gross incomes of more than $75,000. The amount would then be reduced by $5 for every additional $100 of adjusted gross income, and those making more than $99,000 would not receive anything. The income thresholds are doubled for married couples."

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/polit...tor/index.html

    CNN took the calculator off (since it was no longer needed), but H&R Block has this handy:

    Stimulus check eligibility & Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) ranges
    Filing Status Low ThresholdIf your AGI is below this amount, you’ll qualify for the full $1,200 (per person) stimulus payment. High ThresholdIf your AGI is above this amount, you won’t qualify for any of the $1,200 (per person) stimulus payment.
    Single Less than $75,000 $99,000
    Married Filing Jointly Less than $150,000 $198,000
    Head of Household Less than $112,000 $136,500
    https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/f...k-eligibility/

    So, a lone federal employee who made $160K/yr. would not get a check. You must've specified a married couple with children when you did your calculations.

    Good to know that you don't dispute that people need help, but it's sure hard to tell from your posts, when you say such things as "a lot of people don't need it," "plenty of people were doing just fine collecting their paychecks," and disparage stimulus payments as "throwing money at" the problem.
    He has a wife who is a stay at home mom and three dependent kids. I typed that into the calculator CNN had in their web site and it returned $2800. Then again, its CNN, which we all know is fake news. Right?

    So you think giving someone a couple thousand dollars of tax payer's money who has not lost a cent of their salary due to this a good idea?

    Why don't you save your arbitrary judging and hate for PO?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    He has a wife who is a stay at home mom and three dependent kids. I typed that into the calculator CNN had in their web site and it returned $2800. Then again, its CNN, which we all know is fake news. Right?

    So you think giving someone a couple thousand dollars of tax payer's money who has not lost a cent of their salary due to this a good idea?

    Why don't you save your arbitrary judging and hate for PO?
    And Massive corps got humongous forgivable loans.. the same companies that spent their massive tax breaks on stock buy backs instead of saving it for a rainy day.. like say a pandemic....

    No one claimed the bill was perfect, in reality, it was a kneejerk reaction bill to get money to the people (and businesses) fast, and not take months to implement.. there are still some people who have not received their unemployment.. many months after applying, the systems are broken (in some cases.. Florida, I am looking at you, intentionally.. and I know this as first hand experience since I was part of the team that designed, built and implemented the FL UI system).

    So no, people like myself, and many others probably should not have received anything, but the reality is, to implement a system to determine who was worthy and who was not would have taken too long.

    Then there were the banks that manipulated to the program to maximize their commissions and fees, prioritizing bigger clients than the small businesses the bills were supposed to focus on..

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljvb View Post
    And Massive corps got humongous forgivable loans.. the same companies that spent their massive tax breaks on stock buy backs instead of saving it for a rainy day.. like say a pandemic....

    No one claimed the bill was perfect, in reality, it was a kneejerk reaction bill to get money to the people (and businesses) fast, and not take months to implement.. there are still some people who have not received their unemployment.. many months after applying, the systems are broken (in some cases.. Florida, I am looking at you, intentionally.. and I know this as first hand experience since I was part of the team that designed, built and implemented the FL UI system).

    So no, people like myself, and many others probably should not have received anything, but the reality is, to implement a system to determine who was worthy and who was not would have taken too long.

    Then there were the banks that manipulated to the program to maximize their commissions and fees, prioritizing bigger clients than the small businesses the bills were supposed to focus on..
    I agree with everything you're saying here. The sad fact is that they did have more time to implement something, or at least give it some thought, but our government stuck its head in the sand and hoped it would blow over.

  20. #20
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    He has a wife who is a stay at home mom and three dependent kids. I typed that into the calculator CNN had in their web site and it returned $2800. Then again, its CNN, which we all know is fake news. Right?

    So you think giving someone a couple thousand dollars of tax payer's money who has not lost a cent of their salary due to this a good idea?

    Why don't you save your arbitrary judging and hate for PO?

    So, with a wife and three kids to support (aka a "family"). Have you heard how much those things eat?

    Speaking of arbitrary judging and hate, why don't you try commenting without making things personal?
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  21. #21
    xxl
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    In case anyone is wondering who got what from the stimulus:

    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  22. #22
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    So, with a wife and three kids to support (aka a "family"). Have you heard how much those things eat?

    Speaking of arbitrary judging and hate, why don't you try commenting without making things personal?
    Yes I do. I have two teenage boys and a wife. aka a family.

    I'm entitled to an opinion and as far as making it personal, ...

    "Good to know that you don't dispute that people need help, but it's sure hard to tell from your posts, when you say such things as "a lot of people don't need it," "plenty of people were doing just fine collecting their paychecks," and disparage stimulus payments as "throwing money at" the problem."

  23. #23
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Yes I do. I have two [not three] teenage boys and a wife. aka a family.

    I'm entitled to an opinion and as far as making it personal, ...

    "Good to know that you don't dispute that people need help, but it's sure hard to tell from your posts, when you say such things as "a lot of people don't need it," "plenty of people were doing just fine collecting their paychecks," and disparage stimulus payments as "throwing money at" the problem."
    All that I wrote is true; it is hard to tell your sentiments from what you wrote. I'm glad you cleared that up.

    Notice that I didn't make any disparaging comments to you about whether you were arbitrarily judgmental and hateful.

    YMMV.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Say, whose name went out on those checks, anyway?
    Some people just don't make good candidates for friendly cross-examination. Generally easy to spot be making generalized claims without an ounce of evidence. In this case --- names.

    Then again personal conjunctures and corroborated true statement are two different things.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

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  25. #25
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Some people just don't make good candidates for friendly cross-examination. Generally easy to spot be making generalized claims without an ounce of evidence. In this case --- names.

    Then again personal conjunctures and corroborated true statement are two different things.
    C'mon, troutmd; let's shuffle back to PO, our work here is done.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    There are 4.8 million covid cases in the United States (as of July 31), six months after Donald Trump said it was "totally under control," and that "it's gonna be just fine."

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