• 04-28-2015
    Andy69
    Ford vs Honda quality comparison
    We just got two new cars in the last month and a half - a 2014 F150 XLT (actually not new, one year old with 20k on it) and a 2015 Honda CRV LX.

    Not really the same class of vehicle, but I was struck by the quality difference.

    The Honda feels cheap. The seats aren't bad (although not as comfortable as others. I would not be comfortable on a long drive), but the plastics are kind of hokey, better than what was in the Saturn but not as good as what was in the van. The doors feel spindly and insubstantial, even compared to the 1997 Saturn I just sold. Rap on the outside of them and they make a rather loud bonking sound and the door skin depresses rather easily when I push on it. Switches and knobs feel decent, on a par with everything else I've driven in the last few years.

    Top that off, when we got the car home with 15 miles on it, and opened the left rear door to get one of the kids out, the weatherstrip came off. And the car shakes badly at idle (a common complaint, which imho would be rectified by increasing the in drive idle speed by about 100 rpm). It also has a very harsh ride. It does seem to handle well for an SUV and doesn't have any bumpsteer that I could detect. No throttle delay, either.

    If this were a $15 economy car, I might be able to excuse some of this, but it was $25k - not quite average price but up there. I'm somewhat disappointed, although if it ends up being maintenance free for 10 years that will make up for a lot.

    And the Mrs likes it, though, and that's what's important.

    The Ford on the other hand has a much better quality interior, idles quietly and flawlessly, and feels much more substantial (mainly because is IS more substantial, being a truck, but like parts like the seats and etc have a better quality feel, plus the exterior sheet metal has less give. I really have no gripes. Even the RIDE is better than the CRV, and it's a truck. The kicker is, my uber-picky family would rather take the truck on long trips.

    I'd have to say, Ford has come a long way since the 80s.
  • 04-28-2015
    wgscott
    In general, I have found Toyotas to be better value than Honda (which for some reason I want to like better -- maybe they are less stoggy). The minivan was a much better value (price) than the almost identical honda version.
  • 04-28-2015
    love4himies
    I now own a Honda Accord, but did have a Tempo & Taurus before that and it's true what you are saying. Back in 2002 I test drove an Accord and dropped the keys on the salesman desk and told him bluntly the Accord doesn't drive nearly as nice as the Taurus. If Ford made a car that I liked back in 2007 when I bought my Accord, I would have bought another one.

    We currently have a 2000 F150 and it rides great.
  • 04-28-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    I now own a Honda Accord, but did have a Tempo & Taurus before that and it's true what you are saying. Back in 2002 I test drove an Accord and dropped the keys on the salesman desk and told him bluntly the Accord doesn't drive nearly as nice as the Taurus. If Ford made a car that I liked back in 2007 when I bought my Accord, I would have bought another one.

    We currently have a 2000 F150 and it rides great.

    I was really disappointed with the Ford minivan in 2005, which is why we ended up with the Dodge.

    I tried to steer the mrs toward a Ford Edge, but she was having none of that.
  • 04-28-2015
    MR_GRUMPY
    The base MSRP for the Ford is $7500 more than the Honda.
  • 04-28-2015
    Saddletramp1200
    I have owned Ford & Honda. Honda is almost feed it & forget it. More weight less mileage is how they look at it. Ford is American thinking. If their comfy they are less picky. It's the lesser of two evils.
  • 04-28-2015
    SauronHimself
    I have a 2012 Focus Titanium hatchback that I love. It gets the same MPGs as a Honda Civic, but it handles more nicely, and the interior looks way better. Plus, it's fun to show off the automated parallel parking feature.
  • 04-28-2015
    Mcfarton
    i have worked in the automotive industry for 2 decades and can assure you that your ford is the opposite of quality. but I do agree that American cars in general ride nicer than Japanese cars.
  • 04-28-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mcfarton View Post
    i have worked in the automotive industry for 2 decades and can assure you that your ford is the opposite of quality. but I do agree that American cars in general ride nicer than Japanese cars.

    ehh, I ain't buying that. I've seen our crews absolutely destroy Chevy and Toyota trucks, but they can't touch the Fords. Tough as hell and no major repairs of any kind on 3 F150s in almost 9 years.
  • 04-28-2015
    Mapei
    I've had two Hondas -- a 1975 Civic and a 2008 Fit. Both have used the lightest, seemingly most inexpensive materials theoretically possible, but the quality of assembly and fit n' finish has always been the equal (if not better) than my BMWs and Mercedes. Both Hondas were/are almost magically reliable and hardy...though the Civic was perhaps not quite the last word in overall longevity. It was ready to be retired after about eight years and 150,000 miles. I actually kissed the damn thing goodbye!

    I have to say, also, that my Hondas were/are surprisingly agile and fun. They feel good under the hands. The seats comfortable. They're easy to see out of. The pedals are well-placed and feel good underfoot (yeah, the clutch pedals tend to squeak like hell). My Hondas unmistakably possess some of the sporting DNA that founder Soichiro Honda put into his race cars and motorcycles.
  • 04-28-2015
    lot8con8
    I have had our Honda CRV for over 10 years. I have zero complaints. My folks are on their third CRV without complaint.
  • 04-28-2015
    nOOky
    You should be comparing the CR-V to the Escape. You can't really make a valid comparison between a truck and a small SUV. Honda's are fairly pedestrian, but my experience has always been solid reliability, just not the most exciting. Ford tries to be flashy, and succeeds quite often, but see what each vehicle looks like after 125,000 miles. I have had 3 Ford Rangers, an Acura, a CR-V currently, and the wife has a Hyundai Tuscon.

    If I were buying currently I would strongly consider a Hyundai, depending on vehicle type.
  • 04-28-2015
    CBus660R
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    Ford tries to be flashy, and succeeds quite often, but see what each vehicle looks like after 125,000 miles.

    It depends on what you're buying. If you're talking the F series, they will last. Ford does those right. My Mustang GT was doing well at 106K with the only issues directly related to the bimbo in an SUV who thought she could do 50+ in an ice storm wiping out the whole right side of the car when it was just over 2 years old. $13k in repairs, but value was still $20k so it got fixed instead of totaled like it should have been. I have no experience with the "commodity" vehicles like a Focus, Fusion, Escape, etc...
  • 04-28-2015
    CBus660R
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    If I were buying currently I would strongly consider a Hyundai, depending on vehicle type.

    Or a KIA. My father-in-law has a newer KIA Sedona minivan and I was shocked at how nice it was to drive when my wife "volunteered" me as the driver on our family vacation from Ohio to Myrtle Beach.
  • 04-28-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    You should be comparing the CR-V to the Escape. You can't really make a valid comparison between a truck and a small SUV. Honda's are fairly pedestrian, but my experience has always been solid reliability, just not the most exciting. Ford tries to be flashy, and succeeds quite often, but see what each vehicle looks like after 125,000 miles. I have had 3 Ford Rangers, an Acura, a CR-V currently, and the wife has a Hyundai Tuscon.

    If I were buying currently I would strongly consider a Hyundai, depending on vehicle type.

    well, I'm comparing those two because that's what I've had a chance to live with for a while.

    I'm impressed with the engine in the race car. 30 years old, 300,000+ miles (most of it above 5000 rpm), and I just replaced the original 5-speed. I shredded a CV joint, and the axle smacked a hole in the side of the transmission. It was the middle of the season, so I covered the hole with marine epoxy and kept going. The piece was inside, and ended up shredding the input shaft bearing. The cage was collected in pieces on the magnet, but the balls were still in place. I don't know how long it had been that way, but pretty amazing that it was still functional.
  • 04-28-2015
    robwh9
    I've owned Hondas for 26 years. Only once were they in the shop, and they fixed it for free. Pretty much perfect cars. I'll only buy Hondas.
  • 04-29-2015
    PMC
    We have the same two vehicles (2012 XLT and 2015 CRV) and I think they're both great for what they're used for.

    Three years into my first Ford in over a decade and I'm super happy with nearly everything about it. It's got a couple of nit-pick things I won't go into but overall it's been great. Ours has the eco-boost and we tow a 7000 lb travel trailer around all summer long without any drama. It's big, super comfortable and has power to spare. With a topper/cap on the back I can take two bikes with and keep them out of the elements, it's awesome.

    Last fall we replaced the wife's Acura with a 15 CRV EX-L so interior wise ours might be a little different but it still screams Honda. It has a bit of road noise (not nearly as loud as the Element we had) and handles tight, reminds me of every other Honda I've driven in that it feels correct.
    We haven't had any build quality issues but the new motor in the 15 is a little rough at idle although not annoyingly so. We're only 5k miles into ownership so it's way to early to tell if it's going to be as bomb proof as the Element we had 10 years ago but I suspect it will be.

    The last Ford I owned was an SHO from the 90s and that thing had so many rattles and electrical issues that I swore off american cars for years. The number of issues it had within the first 20k miles was unbelievable. I ended up giving it to my dad who loves tinkering with that stuff and he still has it 15 years later; I think it still has less than 50k on it.

    When I went to buy a truck I tried the big Toyota but it did nothing for me. I was coming off a number of years driving a Land Cruiser (which I loved) but it wasn't meant to be. The Ford F150 just felt better to me.
  • 04-29-2015
    pmf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    You should be comparing the CR-V to the Escape. You can't really make a valid comparison between a truck and a small SUV. Honda's are fairly pedestrian, but my experience has always been solid reliability, just not the most exciting. Ford tries to be flashy, and succeeds quite often, but see what each vehicle looks like after 125,000 miles. I have had 3 Ford Rangers, an Acura, a CR-V currently, and the wife has a Hyundai Tuscon.

    If I were buying currently I would strongly consider a Hyundai, depending on vehicle type.

    I used to think that way until I test drove some Hyundai vehicles. I tried a Kia too (basically the same vehicles). I was looking at the large SUV. If you want to get the thing nice trim wise, it's bumping $35k. I asked my mechanic about them and he told me that the parts are expensive. After shelling out money for Volvo parts for the last several years, that was the deciding factor. I looked at the Escape. Nicer vehicle, but pretty expensive. I just couldn't justify spending over $40k on a Ford. I ended up buying an Acura MDX. A bit more expensive than the Escape, but a lot nicer car. Bigger too, which I like. Of the three, Acura has a lot better resale value.

    A friend of mine bought a Honda CRV, and I have to agree that the interior is not very nice and the seats definitely aren't comfortable. A bit of a dog too.
  • 04-29-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I used to think that way until I test drove some Hyundai vehicles. I tried a Kia too (basically the same vehicles). I was looking at the large SUV. If you want to get the thing nice trim wise, it's bumping $35k. I asked my mechanic about them and he told me that the parts are expensive. After shelling out money for Volvo parts for the last several years, that was the deciding factor. I looked at the Escape. Nicer vehicle, but pretty expensive. I just couldn't justify spending over $40k on a Ford. I ended up buying an Acura MDX. A bit more expensive than the Escape, but a lot nicer car. Bigger too, which I like. Of the three, Acura has a lot better resale value.

    A friend of mine bought a Honda CRV, and I have to agree that the interior is not very nice and the seats definitely aren't comfortable. A bit of a dog too.

    One thing I will say is the CRV has more power and gets better mileage than the van. That's where the CVT comes in handy. Definitely not as roomy or comfortable, though. But we knew that going in.

    But the big surprise is the truck. Better acceleration than my GS and about the same mileage as the van - so far 24-25 hwy and 18 city.

    And, I just brought home my new (to me) car hauler. No more driving the race car to the track, no more begging rides when I break it, and best of all NO MORE CHANGING FROM STREET TIRES TO RACE TIRES AND BACK AGAIN. yippeee!!
  • 04-29-2015
    Notvintage
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by robwh9 View Post
    I'll only buy Hondas.

    My daily is an E92 M3, but when shopping for my wife's car I went right to an Accord. Honda quality is well documented (look at True Delta's website). I have never bought, or ever would, an America car. Between their ugly designs, largely inferior quality (compared to Asian cars), Government handouts. . . Not happening.
  • 04-29-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    My daily is an E92 M3, but when shopping for my wife's car I went right to an Accord. Honda quality is well documented (look at True Delta's website). I have never bought, or ever would, an America car. Between their ugly designs, largely inferior quality (compared to Asian cars), Government handouts. . . Not happening.

    I've never been overly impressed by foreign cars. Japanese = cheap, German = nice but horribly unreliable and expensive to repair (most people think Volkswagen is German for "people's car", but it really means "sell this car before it reaches 100,000 miles), Korean cars are slightly upscale Japanese cars, except they handle poorly.

    I've never had any reason to go with anything other than a Ford or a GM, when it's been my choice. Heck, I just sold my 19 year old Saturn to a buddy. Wouldn't surprise me if he drives it for ten years, too. The three best daily cars I've had have been a Cavalier, Escort, and the SL1, driven a combined 26 years (and all used when I got them). Only the Cavalier was junked - blew a head gasket at 180,000 miles and decided it wasn't worth it.

    The Toyota pickup is always the last one out of the motor pool, and the first one back. It's had the suspension completely rebuilt once, while the Fords hum right along.

    I'm sure there are people with their own horror stories regarding any and all makes/nationalities of car. I've just never had any real bad luck with American cars.
  • 04-29-2015
    nealric
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    I've never been overly impressed by foreign cars. Japanese = cheap, German = nice but horribly unreliable and expensive to repair (most people think Volkswagen is German for "people's car", but it really means "sell this car before it reaches 100,000 miles), Korean cars are slightly upscale Japanese cars, except they handle poorly.

    I've never had any reason to go with anything other than a Ford or a GM, when it's been my choice. Heck, I just sold my 19 year old Saturn to a buddy. Wouldn't surprise me if he drives it for ten years, too. The three best daily cars I've had have been a Cavalier, Escort, and the SL1, driven a combined 26 years (and all used when I got them). Only the Cavalier was junked - blew a head gasket at 180,000 miles and decided it wasn't worth it.

    The Toyota pickup is always the last one out of the motor pool, and the first one back. It's had the suspension completely rebuilt once, while the Fords hum right along.

    I'm sure there are people with their own horror stories regarding any and all makes/nationalities of car. I've just never had any real bad luck with American cars.

    I have almost 160k on my VW. They really aren't bad- just more expensive parts and service. Really not bad at all if you do your own wrenching.

    Trucks have been where American automakers have traditionally shined. It's their cars where they have had quality issues in the past (although that seems to be getting better). The Japanese have switched production of many of their vehicles to the U.S. and cut costs, which means things like plastic trim may have issues. They are still quite reliable though.

    In the end, the globalization of the car-making business has meant that the nationalities of the car makers means less and less these days. Your "German" VW is probably going to be built in Mexico with parts from all over the world. The new "American" Ford Focus RS will be built in Germany. The "American" brand Dodge is owned by an Italian company.
  • 04-29-2015
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    I have almost 160k on my VW. They really aren't bad- just more expensive parts and service. Really not bad at all if you do your own wrenching.

    Trucks have been where American automakers have traditionally shined. It's their cars where they have had quality issues in the past (although that seems to be getting better). The Japanese have switched production of many of their vehicles to the U.S. and cut costs, which means things like plastic trim may have issues. They are still quite reliable though.

    In the end, the globalization of the car-making business has meant that the nationalities of the car makers means less and less these days. Your "German" VW is probably going to be built in Mexico with parts from all over the world. The new "American" Ford Focus RS will be built in Germany. The "American" brand Dodge is owned by an Italian company.

    My F150 was built in Dearborn
  • 04-29-2015
    nealric
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    My F150 was built in Dearborn

    And probably will be for a long time. My point is just that generalizations about "American" cars have become rather difficult these days. Even if it was 100% assembled in the U.S., I guarantee you it has a substantial amount of parts that were imported.
  • 04-29-2015
    Andy69
    true enough.

    been that way since NAFTA