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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Yes. But Brees doesn't just 'get it done', he's one of the three or four best QBs on the planet. Period.

    Also, as others have noted, Russell Wilson is 5'11". Also, Aaron Rodgers and Andy Dalton, both at 6'2" and around 220, aren't giants.

    You don't have to be some 6'5", 245 lb monster QB to make it in the NFL. History is littered with 'big athletic QBs' who never really lived up to their initial hype.... Daunte Culpepper, Tim Tebow, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell etc.

    It's a slight advantage, sure, and for the reasons you note. But it's sure not a deal-breaker if you're not a certain height, except maybe in certain coaches/scouts' minds. Probably the same coaches/scouts who used to think that white dudes couldn't play wide receiver at a very high level in the NFL... until guys like Welker, Nelson, Decker, Hartline, etc. showed otherwise. Some perceptions are only that, perceptions.

    Also, smaller QBs tend to be more agile/elusive. I guess you have to be.
    Though to be fair, Leaf and Russell have had problems with drugs, which probably had a fair bit to do with their failures.

    But I think you and I generally agree on the topic of short QBs.

    Wasn't Doug Flutie listed at 5'-11" but really closer to 5'-9"? He had a respectable career - over performed expectations, any how.
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  2. #27
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    lol...yeah not too big, not too small

    brees I agree, is a true tactician out there. he gets on top and stays on top of everything that's going on from the first snap. little guy, but tough and accurate. he's staying in that pocket until the job gets done, win or lose, he will not abandon the best option for destroying the opponent. sending receivers, tight ends, and backs into the pattern, reading the defense, and delivering the ball with authority down the field. and most of the time, with payton plotting the surgical strikes, it works. brees' numbers are off the charts.

    I am also a big fan of Russell Wilson. not a bad deal to play for carroll, who's been around, has kind of figured it out, and is a very good motivator of a very talented group of young professionals; the supporting cast in seattle, the personnel group on the field, is impressive.

    so he's in a system, but damn if russell doesn't make the best of it. that playoff game in Atlanta last year, second half on the road, had Atlanta crapping its pants. he has a career rating, ok only two full seasons, but a career rating of over 100. I don't think anyone else has ever done that. pro bowl two years straight, and the kid's only twenty five. speaking of devout, he also happens to be a Christian, married his childhood sweetheart, visits sick kids at the hospital as a rule, every week, win lose or draw. 25. athletically, I think Wilson is very strong, very quick. and he's smart too, like read the defense deliver the pass, and if it aint there, book it at top top speed outside for a first down if its there smart. he's good, man, the best young quarterback out of the box I've seen in a long time. and yeah he's short. short, but not small. pays his dues in the weight room. short. but strong.

    him vs. kapernick, maaannnn that is tough tough tough. talk about good young qb out of the box. maybe we'll get a chance to see who's better in two weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Yes. But Brees doesn't just 'get it done', he's one of the three or four best QBs on the planet. Period.

    Also, as others have noted, Russell Wilson is 5'11". Also, Aaron Rodgers and Andy Dalton, both at 6'2" and around 220, aren't giants.

    You don't have to be some 6'5", 245 lb monster QB to make it in the NFL. History is littered with 'big athletic QBs' who never really lived up to their initial hype.... Daunte Culpepper, Tim Tebow, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell etc.

    It's a slight advantage, sure, and for the reasons you note. But it's sure not a deal-breaker if you're not a certain height, except maybe in certain coaches/scouts' minds. Probably the same coaches/scouts who used to think that white dudes couldn't play wide receiver at a very high level in the NFL... until guys like Welker, Nelson, Decker, Hartline, etc. showed otherwise. Some perceptions are only that, perceptions.

    Also, smaller QBs tend to be more agile/elusive. I guess you have to be.

  3. #28
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    There are always exceptions to the rule ... but the rule always stands in the end.

    Manziel is likely closer to 5'10" and 180 pounds ... numbers on programs are "ALWAYS" inflated. It should be interesting to see what his size really is at the NFL combine.

    The small guys that have made it in the NFL have all had pretty good builds for their size ... Russell looks like a RB as much as a QB, and they all have been extremely good passers. Manziel has the "Chuck and Pray" style down, but he's not all that accurate in the end. In the pro's where the lines are bigger and "EVERYBODY" is fast his abilities won't transfer. He will have to be moved out of the pocket a lot to be able to see the field and DB's are going to "Light" him up in the end.

    As I said before ... A smaller and slower Tebow without the morals. At least Tebow had the body to take some hits, and he still couldn't take the NFL pounding.

    As for the morals ... it's his attitude that's the issue. In college he can back it up, in the pro's they won't take likely to his crap and defensive players will be salivating to light him up on a regular basis. He will be marked and hence, not have a long or productive career in the NFL. That's the other thing that separates the smaller QB's that make it in the NFL ... they tend to be pretty humble and a guy people want to play for, not the other way around.
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  4. #29
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    You forgot Russell Wilson. You can be small but you have to be smart. JonEfootball hasn't shown me he has nfl football smarts to be in the nfl.
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  5. #30
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    John. E. Football.

    Here is what I see.

    Positives, he's athletic, and has a great will to win and he has natural speed. His accuracy has improved

    Negatives. His height. He's not disciplined, he relies too much on the escapability (he may have had to. His statistics are overly inflated by having Ellis to throw to against defenses with weak secondaries.

    I think the best thing that could happen to him is if he drops in the draft and goes somewhere with a better O line, and a veteran QB that could show him how much work it takes to succeed in the NFL.

    I think his success will be totally related to how hard he works to fix his flaws.

    As to getting his education, he comes from oil money.......will never have to worry about money.

    Len



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  6. #31
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    John. E. Football.

    Russell Wilson is succeeding as much because he is surrounded by a great team.......great defense! great running game and great O line, as his talent. They have not had to put that team on his back to win. Put him on the jets (as an example) and no ones talking about him as being a very good QB IMO.



    "Evil....is the complete lack of Empathy!"

    ""We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. " Aristotle

    No one is as bad as the worst thing they have done & no one is as good as the best thing they have done.........think of that when you feel like you understand someone.

  7. #32
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    the prospect of getting to see JFF totally lit up by some hulking NFL defenders is almost enough incentive to watch a pro game.
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  8. #33
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    Wilson has more talent, skill and football acumen than you give him credit for. No, he's not going to put a team on his back like Rodgers can but he's in the next tier. His smarts is what sets him apart from other qb's like him. He doesn't make mistakes, makes good choices and can make plays too. Plus, he's a natural leader. I saw that at Wisconsin. He can get the best out of others and that's a critically important aspect of being a pro quarterback. His goal is to win and he doesn't worry about his stats or his legacy. He wants to be a winner above all else.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  9. #34
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    What little I've seen and heard of the guy, he comes across as a punk. He was doing quite a bit of jawing at the Duke defense which isn't what you want to see from a guy getting ready to go to the NFL. His arm seems a little weak, his deep throws had a bit of balloon toss look to them, although they were accurate. I think a team that drafts him early first round will be wasting their pick, but what do I know.

    Broke my heart to see the Blue Devils lose. I've been watching Duke football a long time (yes, I know suffering) and that was probably the best game I've ever seen from a Duke quarterback until those final two possessions, and even then still a really good game. I think Duke got screwed with the reversal of that catch on the review and the non-calls for PI, but I'm biased. Duke will be solid again next year, Anthony Boone will be back, and I'm happy to see them take a team from a power conference down to the wire.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len J View Post
    Russell Wilson is succeeding as much because he is surrounded by a great team.......great defense! great running game and great O line, as his talent. They have not had to put that team on his back to win. Put him on the jets (as an example) and no ones talking about him as being a very good QB IMO.
    I'm not sure Joe Montana would look good if he played for the Jets.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by easyridernyc View Post
    good big man always better than good little man. . . not only does size enable someone to see over the line, but it also helps preserve the quarterback's health when he gets hit. which he invariably will
    Is this really true? Intuitively it seems to make sense, but that doesn't make it so. Intuitively you might think SUVs are safer than smaller cars, but if the SUVs get in more collisions, maybe not. Also, I notice that the list of top 13 most consecutive games played in the NFL includes at number 6 Ronde Barber, 5'10" and 180 lbs. And is led by Brett Favre, not exactly a behemoth. Looks like Ronde's twin brother Tiki missed no more than 6 games in his 10-year career. Walter Payton, about the same size, didn't miss a lot of games either. I don't know the answer, but it's not hard to find smaller guys who avoid injury in spite of getting hit a lot.

  12. #37
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    But he did play for the Chiefs and looked good. His passer rating was similar to many years with the 49'ers. The main category where he fell down was passing touchdowns, and that's a reflection of his receivers IMHO. He was also at the end or his career and his physical abilities were waning. I think Joe would still look good with the Jets, even today! He would not be as big a winner as with San Fran or even the Chiefs.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
    I'm not sure Joe Montana would look good if he played for the Jets.
    Yup. There are definitely teams that have a 'Reverse Midas' touch', i.e. everything they touch turns to sh*t.

    Look at the Raiders... Carson Palmer wasn't able to get much done there. He goes to the Cardinals, and alluva sudden he's doing well. You have to wonder.
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  14. #39
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    Not that hard to identify the dysfunctional clubs. Just look at the owners.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    Not that hard to identify the dysfunctional clubs. Just look at the owners.
    I sometimes wonder if Romo would be awesome if he could just get the hell away from Jerry Jones.
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind


  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Yup. There are definitely teams that have a 'Reverse Midas' touch', i.e. everything they touch turns to sh*t.

    Look at the Raiders... Carson Palmer wasn't able to get much done there. He goes to the Cardinals, and alluva sudden he's doing well. You have to wonder.
    I think the Browns are the poster child for this.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
    I think the Browns are the poster child for this.
    On SportsCenter, they were doing a 'likely draft' breakdown, assuming Manziel went out for the NFL.

    In it, he went to the Browns.
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind


  18. #43
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    struggled to beat Duke and the 2 missed PI calls on the final drive would have changed the game

    seems the teams Texas didn't impress much during this bowl season

    he does have good leadership, but so did Tebow
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    still not figgering on biggering

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    Wilson has more talent, skill and football acumen than you give him credit for. No, he's not going to put a team on his back like Rodgers can but he's in the next tier. His smarts is what sets him apart from other qb's like him. He doesn't make mistakes, makes good choices and can make plays too. Plus, he's a natural leader. I saw that at Wisconsin. He can get the best out of others and that's a critically important aspect of being a pro quarterback. His goal is to win and he doesn't worry about his stats or his legacy. He wants to be a winner above all else.
    talented and smart, yes. plus, like I said, he is built rock hard, small, but strong as hell. I also heard Wilson on espn radio this morning. man, what a great kid, he wasn't just talking the talk, he just comes across as earnest and motivated. seahawks need to lock this kid up, three years left at like 600 per is kinda ridiculous. look at his stats, all pro both years, 100 passer rating two straight years, heartbeat away from the nfc championship, playoff bye and maybe more this year. given what veteran players get for being so much less productive, Wilson is in line for a serious raise.

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  21. #46
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    smells fishy to me

    maybe in houston. maybe not. that team has a lot of talent, and man they lost a lot of games this year. most of the problems seemed to stem from the qb position. they need a real starter

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    Kiper has A&Ms left tackle as his #2 pick. I guess he's been drinking the Aggie maroon Kool-ade. Could it be a case of one making the other look good? If so, which one?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
    I'm not sure Joe Montana would look good if he played for the Jets.
    Jesus Christ wouldn't look good playing for the Jets.

    He'd be like, "ME effing ME, this team sucks!!"
    Monkhouse: I want to go like my Dad did peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    System: Fake news?? Trump's a Fake President, for God's sake.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    Homer: I believe that children are our future. Unless we stop them now.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind


  24. #49
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    I hope he does not come to Houston. The right side of our line can make any quarter back look bad. if he does come here, it is a good thing he is not a pocket passer because we don't have pocket to pass from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by obed View Post
    I hope he does not come to Houston. The right side of our line can make any quarter back look bad. if he does come here, it is a good thing he is not a pocket passer because we don't have pocket to pass from.
    My team has an A&M qb that spent a record setting amount of time just laying around on the field. Whooda thunk having an offensive line populated with mean people would make such a difference.

    I think Kiper is trying to hype himself a little with the Manziel pick. Bet that pick will change in a month or so.

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