Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013

    The Monkey & The Tree (WARNING: CONTROVERSY MAY (WILL) ENSUE)

    I've given this some thought as to whether or not I actually "pull the trigger" on submitting this thread, but here goes.

    I'm a proponent of VOR. My lack of understanding or an ultimate answer to the "mysteries" of the Universe is tempered by the same. It's ok not to know while looking.

    Rather than entertain a tit for tat response, I'll propose this:

    Human beings are smart apes who've recently left the trees for the open savannah, or so we think. Instead I suggest that we make forays into the wild, but more often than not, keep one hand grasping a tree branch.

    Recently, tragedy was averted when a group of boys were rescued from a flooding cave. Often I heard praises to the divine (and in my circle of friends, a particular divine being) for their rescue. This bothered me.

    When I looked back at what happened and how the kids got out, I saw nothing divine. What I did see (and here comes the firestorm) were people executing a thought out plan. This aspect of our society seems to have fallen out of favor but I remind you that the vast majority of your activities of daily life are rooted in the same laws that allowed for the rescue. Water does not flow uphill against the force of gravity. With sufficient oxygen and lack of enough other toxic gases, people can survive in enclosed spaces for a goodly time. Taking into account our knowledge of the natural world, remarkable but predictable things occur.

    So, while the folks that made this (the video below) happen may have different opinions, I regard this as one of those moments when the monkey let go of the tree.



    So, what crawled up my willywong to cause me to write this and post such an old video? I've been spending a lot of time "researching" situations of late. There appear to be rational rules in place even if I'm not YET privy to all of them.

    The rational world is remarkable and I want to bear witness.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: El Scorcho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    776
    I have been on this planet for a while now, well past the 10,000 hours required to be a professional human being. I associate with a good number of religious folks and an equal number of "not so much" types and this is what I have come to realize;

    Seek and ye shall find works for everyone. If you seek for the divine, you will find it. If you look for rational explanations, you will find it. If you look for the good in people, you will find it. If you look for reasons to be angry, you will find it. You see where I am going with this?

    Human nature is to find justification for our beliefs.

  3. #3
    a real member's member
    Reputation: blackfrancois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    3,658
    first time i've seen that video. thanks.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,723
    There was a mysterious force that pulled him from orbit?

    Obviously he was not in orbit!
    BANNED

  5. #5
    wots...uh the deal?
    Reputation: mmoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,065
    There are a lot of natural laws. Some we understand well, some we don't. But Humans are a different thing. Rational thought is one thing. Beliefs are another. I agree with Voltaire "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" (isn't 'mother nature' one such?)
    That is not saying that god does not exist.

    But, more interesting than rationality is irrationality. Observing irrationality in humanity interests me. There are rational rules, sure. But trying to understand the irrational rules seems to be where the fun is.

    Oh, and the original space diver, Kittinger, is one of the old school badasses. (think there was a thread here about him a decade or so ago)

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by mmoose View Post
    Oh, and the original space diver, Kittinger, is one of the old school badasses. (think there was a thread here about him a decade or so ago)
    ... true dat, same rules applied except Go-Pro & Red Bull.


  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    Human beings are smart apes who've recently left the trees for the open savannah, or so we think. Instead I suggest that we make forays into the wild, but more often than not, keep one hand grasping a tree branch.
    Another theory is the origin of human is not native earth. According to the gene research, there was a sudden change in chromosome and big jump in intelligence level when human existence began.

    Anyone watched Ancient Alien series on TV? They do bring up some thought provoking points from time to time.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,029
    This esoteric stuff must be over my head because I read your post three times and I have no idea what it is about. Do I need to be smoking something to get it?

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    Another theory is the origin of human is not native earth. According to the gene research, there was a sudden change in chromosome and big jump in intelligence level when human existence began.

    Anyone watched Ancient Alien series on TV? They do bring up some thought provoking points from time to time.
    Another theory might suggest that that "jump" was a mutation. Evolution has not demonstrated a preference for intelligence, hence millions of year old species with the same wet wiring as their ancestors. Also remember that modern **** Sapiens appear to be a genetic mix with traces of lost "dead ends".

    I put "jump" in parens because time frames may have been hundreds of thousands to millions of years with a lot of variations on the theme, starts, restarts and unknown consequences (we may have been smart far sooner but could not compete genetically or in number with ancestors of the same time periods).

    Course then there is always this,.


  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    Another theory might suggest that that "jump" was a mutation. Evolution has not demonstrated a preference for intelligence, hence millions of year old species with the same wet wiring as their ancestors. Also remember that modern **** Sapiens appear to be a genetic mix with traces of lost "dead ends".

    I put "jump" in parens because time frames may have been hundreds of thousands to millions of years with a lot of variations on the theme, starts, restarts and unknown consequences (we may have been smart far sooner but could not compete genetically or in number with ancestors of the same time periods).
    That's what I meant, a mutation but a very unusual one, perhaps too unusual to be considered as natural mutation. Name:  Emoticon-Think.gif
Views: 138
Size:  2.2 KB

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    This esoteric stuff must be over my head because I read your post three times and I have no idea what it is about. Do I need to be smoking something to get it?
    Same here. I just noticed that a meadery is about to open next door to my office. Maybe I'll check back after they're up and running.

    OP, what's VOR?

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    That's what I meant, a mutation but a very unusual one, perhaps too unusual to be considered as natural mutation. Name:  Emoticon-Think.gif
Views: 138
Size:  2.2 KB
    I think it was Smithsonian or some other source, somewhat less "iffy" than a show about aliens, that offered another theory on the relatively quick evolution of human intelligence.

    Our heads simply got bigger.

    Something (either a mutation and/or our discovery that cooking food was a good thing) caused our jaw muscles to atrophy thereby removing a major obstacle to the growth of our parietal and other skull bones and allowed our heads, and subsequently our brains, to expand.

    Learning to cook food also meant that our bodies could access more nutrients from our diet without a proportionate increase in our caloric demand. So our brains got fed better without the stresses of increased hunting etc.

  13. #13
    Proud luddite
    Reputation: azpeterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,798
    Quote Originally Posted by dir-t View Post

    OP, what's VOR?
    Isnít it those rock songs from the 70ís that go on and on and on for so long until you are ready to slit your wrists because youíre so bored?

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    Isnít it those rock songs from the 70ís that go on and on and on for so long until you are ready to slit your wrists because youíre so bored?


  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by dir-t View Post
    OP, what's VOR?
    voice of reason

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    This esoteric stuff must be over my head
    Let go of the tree branch and stand erect. That should put your head at the right height.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    Let go of the tree branch and stand erect. That should put your head at the right height.
    I checked both hands. No tree branch in either one

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: velodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,142
    Speaking of monkeys and the Voice of Reason...

    Too old to ride plastic

  19. #19
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    ....
    Anyone watched Ancient Alien series on TV? They do bring up some thought provoking points from time to time.
    Yeah, and a bunch of idiotic hooey the other 99.9% of the time. Only an uneducated imbecile would believe that hogwash.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: velodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,142
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    Another theory is the origin of human is not native earth. According to the gene research, there was a sudden change in chromosome and big jump in intelligence level when human existence began.

    Anyone watched Ancient Alien series on TV? They do bring up some thought provoking points from time to time.
    Monkeys vs Aliens

    Too old to ride plastic

  21. #21
    Master debator.
    Reputation: nOOky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    8,393
    As for believing in God, the best explanation for Atheism I have read yet was this. If you and I and God were standing together, and we all found out that we could immediately cure cancer, I know at least two of us that would do so immediately.
    "I felt bad because I couldn't wheelie; until I met a man with no bicycle"

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    As for believing in God, the best explanation for Atheism I have read yet was this. If you and I and God were standing together, and we all found out that we could immediately cure cancer, I know at least two of us that would do so immediately.
    The third being would throw their virtual hands up in the air, turn and walk off mumbling something about "now the population will rise, food will be in short supply, war will break out and everyone will die slow and horrible plague, radiation and zombie ridden deaths".


  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: velodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,142
    Quote Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    As for believing in God, the best explanation for Atheism I have read yet was this. If you and I and God were standing together, and we all found out that we could immediately cure cancer, I know at least two of us that would do so immediately.
    I'm sorry, but that's one of the silliest things I've read.

    Life ain't about what you are given, it's about what you do with what you are given. We're all gonna die, some peaceful and some not so peaceful, but dying is just part of, or the end of, the journey, depending on ones beliefs. There is going to be suffering, and it is a measure of a wo\man how they deal with that suffering. Whether the measure is taken by God or a neighbor don't matter; all that matters is how one measures up. The True Worth, what one takes to the grave, is in how they deal with that cancer.

    All you've got to do is look at all those with the riches to do anything they'd like that do nothing more than to flush their lives down the toilet, and then look at the child dying a horrible death of inoperable cancer who cheers up those who come to weep for her\him. Which one would you be proud to have known.
    Too old to ride plastic

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by dir-t View Post
    Our heads simply got bigger.
    Our physical posture changed too.

    Something (either a mutation and/or our discovery that cooking food was a good thing) caused our jaw muscles to atrophy thereby removing a major obstacle to the growth of our parietal and other skull bones and allowed our heads, and subsequently our brains, to expand.
    I've heard / watched similar theories and speculations but I always wondered what that something was.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,013
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    Our physical posture changed too.


    I've heard / watched similar theories and speculations but I always wondered what that something was.
    ... ahh, the smoking gun.

    It's quite possible that a great many factors all played together.

    I also believe that life on Earth in general is a consequence of carbon based chemistry, that is, it was inevitable given the prevailing conditions (which have changed dramatically over the billions and billions).

    Today, we can combine a goodly many organic compounds that by their very nature, replicate but they fall far short of our current definition of life. And, as mentioned earlier, there have probably been many false starts and dead ends (anaerobic and cyanobacteria dominated this planet at one time). There is still debate if viruses are alive or just strings of organic molecules.

    What the something was was probably more than a single thing... or not. At the very least, we are the Universe made self aware regardless of whether that matters in the big scheme of things.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Fossil burning: Will a climate blame game ensue?
    By BadHabit in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 04-25-2014, 08:54 PM
  2. I may be abandoning my Palm Tree soon
    By Mel Erickson in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-09-2012, 12:21 PM
  3. The Great Radio Controversy (fyi)
    By 128 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 03-23-2004, 01:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

roadbikereview.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.