Motobecane warranty sucks
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  1. #1
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    Motobecane warranty sucks

    https://www.motobecane.com/warranty001.html

    I have a motobecane immortal force 2009 which is just a year old.
    while riding yesterday, going up hill about 5 mph yes im slow, the rear dropout broke off, derailleur fell off as well and i had to quickly stop and put a foot down as stumbled and I almost fell over.

    I thought the warranty would cover the frame as it said lifetime warranty on frames!
    after sending pictures to the mfg, they want 400+ shipping for a black 2010 frame with NO FORK! Plus they want me to saw off the rear left non drive side of the frame and send it back to them!! WTF is this?!!

    can anyone help? what can i do?... 400 is 1/4 the cost of the bike from bikesdirect.com



    Last edited by darklyte27; 10-14-2009 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    The bikesdirect.com page claims that the Immortal frames have a replaceable derailleur hanger:

    "2.7 Pound Monocoque High Modulus Carbon Fiber with replaceable rear derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses (weight is for 50cm bare frame per manufacturer)"

    You can buy them here for $21. In your picture I see one hex bolt connecting the hanger to the seat stay, but it looks like it is bonded into the chain stay. You may need to get a reputable carbon frame repair company to install the new hanger for you.

    You could also try bikesdirect.com's support email directly to see if they will help you out, or PM to bikesdirect on this web site. I have had good luck with them on 2 post-sales support issues, one small and one big, and both were resolved to my satisfaction.

    Do you think that it failed because of a manufacturing defect, or did something else happen to cause the failure? I'd look for any signs that the RD went into the spokes or evidence that something went into the cassette and jammed it up.
    Old La Honda in less than 20 minutes! Or you can watch race video from the low-key hill climb on Welch Creek. More at www.biketelemetry.com.

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  3. #3
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    If you read their warranty carefully, it states the only thing that is covered by free replacement is non-carbon parts. Carbon parts (including frames) are covered by a cost-replacement program. They say it's the best warranty in the industry, but this is market weasel wording (in fact for frames it's a lousy warranty).

    Looks like you're stuck having to pay a replacement cost - I'd switch to a new company and start a campaign against them for such a crummy warranty...

  4. #4
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    I guess you could check with a lawyer to see if there's some recourse over them making what appears to be a false (and misleading claim): "best warranty in the industry" which is false since many companies have FREE lifetime replacement...

  5. #5
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    Its more than just the derailleur hanger thats broken, its where the screw hole that snapped. rest of the frame is fine, but yea.. i think ill go with another brand.

    Is Kestrell ok?
    Im not rich, actually unemployed, 3 year old TV just broke and it costs 350$ to fix, while a new tv is 450$... whats the world coming to!!

    PS the RD only went into the spokes because its hanging by the chain and cable which probably pulled it in..

    also if you look at the design, its very thin where the screw is holding the hanger, it broke at the weakest link..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    https://www.motobecane.com/warranty001.html

    I have a motobecane immortal force 2009 which is just a year old.
    while riding yesterday, going up hill about 5 mph yes im slow, the rear dropout broke off, derailleur fell off as well and i had to quickly stop and put a foot down as I almost fell over.

    I thought the warranty would cover the frame as it said lifetime warranty on frames!
    after sending pictures to the mfg, they want 400+ shipping for a black 2010 frame with NO FORK! Plus they want me to saw off the rear left non drive side of the frame and send it back to them!! WTF is this?!!

    can anyone help? what can i do?... 400 is 1/4 the cost of the bike from bikesdirect.com



    UNLESS i AM READING THERE WARRANTY WORNG, THEY DO not REPLACE THE FRAME FOR FREE:



    IMO< that is a CRAPPY warranty. You pay for thier defects?

    Good riddance!
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


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    Thanks guys, as I am not the only one that feels this company blows..

    Time to shop for a new bike.. any brand suggestions? I just need a new frame and fork..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    I guess you could check with a lawyer to see if there's some recourse over them making what appears to be a false (and misleading claim): "best warranty in the industry" which is false since many companies have FREE lifetime replacement...
    I agree. If they can't back up there stuff, they are DONE!
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    Thanks guys, as I am not the only one that feels this company blows..

    Time to shop for a new bike.. any brand suggestions? I just need a new frame and fork..
    Blue Competition
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  10. #10
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    would be useful to find out whether you have any recourse under the warranty law. I'd at least write a letter to Velonews, Bob Mionske etc asking what rights consumers have re frame defects.

  11. #11
    duh...
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    they have "authorized dealers"?
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by mikagsd
    Fat tire Fred....you are the bike god of the universe and unless someone agrees with your reasoning they are just plain stupid

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    Thanks guys, as I am not the only one that feels this company blows..

    Time to shop for a new bike.. any brand suggestions? I just need a new frame and fork..

    Hi

    I will PM you for details

    But I think most industry types seeing this would ask; what happened here? Did the frame just break without any impack at all - if so, that is beyond odd

    The reason we treat CF warranty differently than metal parts is the same reason Trek does - and many sellers. CF is harder to evaluate when you see fractures

    Of course, we go over and beyond what is called for under warranty when we see an actual defect. The issue is sometimes what is an actual defect.

    I feel it is fair to state what a warranty covers up front; and we have done that. But in cases where the customer will work with us; we always go over board to make the customer happy.

    I can tell by looking at this bike for 2 minutes if the frame was defect; I think most people in the industry can too.

    Please return my PM

    Thanks

    Mike
    mike
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  13. #13
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    See what the Bikes Direct guy can do for you. Sounds like he's being reasonable. If it really is $400 for a frame replacement, decide if you want another one or something else. One thing these companies won't cover is the cost of transferring the components on the trashed bike to the new frame.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Hi

    I will PM you for details

    But I think most industry types seeing this would ask; what happened here? Did the frame just break without any impack at all - if so, that is beyond odd

    The reason we treat CF warranty differently than metal parts is the same reason Trek does - and many sellers. CF is harder to evaluate when you see fractures

    Of course, we go over and beyond what is called for under warranty when we see an actual defect. The issue is sometimes what is an actual defect.

    I feel it is fair to state what a warranty covers up front; and we have done that. But in cases where the customer will work with us; we always go over board to make the customer happy.

    I can tell by looking at this bike for 2 minutes if the frame was defect; I think most people in the industry can too.

    Please return my PM

    Thanks

    Mike
    That's great Mike. But that warranty for CF frames with the way it is written out is terrible! T claim sonone must pay for a warranty replacement?

    If I saw this when I was thinking of buying a CF frame form BD, I would move on to another brand. Who wants top buy and find out later what BD and Moto will do.
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  15. #15
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    I just saw his post and replied to his PM.
    I am not directing my emotions to bikesdirect, it was towards motobecanes response.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=ukbloke]The bikesdirect.com page claims that the Immortal frames have a replaceable derailleur hanger:

    "2.7 Pound Monocoque High Modulus Carbon Fiber with replaceable rear derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses (weight is for 50cm bare frame per manufacturer)"

    You can buy them here for $21. In your picture I see one hex bolt connecting the hanger to the seat stay, but it looks like it is bonded into the chain stay. You may need to get a reputable carbon frame repair company to install the new hanger for you.

    You could also try bikesdirect.com's support email directly to see if they will help you out, or PM to bikesdirect on this web site. I have had good luck with them on 2 post-sales support issues, one small and one big, and both were resolved to my satisfaction.

    Do you think that it failed because of a manufacturing defect, or did something else happen to cause the failure? I'd look for any signs that the RD went into the spokes or evidence that something went into the cassette and jammed it up.[/QUOTE]


    Thank you for pointing this out. Seeing frames broken in this manner is common on all brands. I have seen thousands. This would be a very odd point for a defect to occur at; Impacts on read der; mis-adjusted der that results in over shifts, and even bent hanger from leaning bike on something are certainly the cause in over 99% of cases. But if an actual defect ever occurs at this point; the frame factory surely wants to see it.

    I will get personally envolved in this case if the OP wishes and as always go beyond what the warranty calls for.
    mike
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  17. #17
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    I guess you could check with a lawyer to see if there's some recourse over them making what appears to be a false (and misleading claim): "best warranty in the industry" which is false since many companies have FREE lifetime replacement...
    "Best warranty in the industry" is not an objectively verifiable true/false fact. It's an opinion. Chevy is free to say the Aveo is the best car in the world even if 999/1000 people disagree. What Chevy can't say is that the Aveo goes 0-60 in 3.5 seconds when it clearly does not.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    http://www.motobecane.com/warranty001.html

    I have a motobecane immortal force 2009 which is just a year old.
    while riding yesterday, going up hill about 5 mph yes im slow, the rear dropout broke off, derailleur fell off as well and i had to quickly stop and put a foot down as I almost fell over.

    I thought the warranty would cover the frame as it said lifetime warranty on frames!
    after sending pictures to the mfg, they want 400+ shipping for a black 2010 frame with NO FORK! Plus they want me to saw off the rear left non drive side of the frame and send it back to them!! WTF is this?!!

    can anyone help? what can i do?... 400 is 1/4 the cost of the bike from bikesdirect.com
    Not to pick sides, but based on what I'm seeing in those pictures, I don't think this is a frame defect issue. Accept the crash replacement option and be happy.

    It appears you have torn the dropout (not replaceable) and the hanger (replaceable) in half. I say torn, as in one of the pictures, the hanger looks twisted and bent. In the same picture, I also see dings to the outer edge of the derailer which could have resulted from laying the bike down on the pavement. What ever dinged the derailer could have easily been what bent the derailer hanger, which in turn sets it up to go into the spokes when you are in your biggest cog (going up a hill).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    I just saw his post and replied to his PM.
    I am not directing my emotions to bikesdirect, it was towards motobecanes response.
    you should know that bikesdirect is motobecane. The real motobecane went bankrupt in 1981. Motobecane USA has no relation to the French company.

    Bikesdirect should change its warranty language. The phrase "best warranty in the industry" is misleading. I'm sending a letter of complaint to the FTC about it. It's gulling to have what is essentially a crash replacement program as a warranty - especially since you're still making a profit charging $400 for a frame plus shipping. I'll bet your cost is under $200 for that frame.

    It's also irritating to see the first reaction from bikesdirect is to raise suspicion against the owner. The drive-side rear dropout is a structurally weak part of the bike to begin with and there's nothing infeasible about the owner's account.

  20. #20
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    Its not like replacing these types of parts are a new concept. Any bike shop will have the same issues with Trek, Specialized, Giant..etc. if it is proven to be a mfg defect, then they might gove you a good deal on a replacement frame... like BD. But its is NEVER FREE. I know this from doing warranty claims. The bike shop and company will charge for the will give you a frame credit - similar to the discount that moto give you and in addition to this, charge for shipping, reassembly, and return of the broken item.

    In recent years the new policy is not to replace the frame, but to give a bigger discount on the level of bike you buy to replace the existing one
    (not real numbers, but you will get the idea)
    IE - for crash replacement
    2003 trek 5900 with DA 9x3 = about $500 for a new 2010 5 series madone
    or $720 on a new 2010 6 series madone. " more you buy - more you save"

    This way companies do not have to give people newer frames for the older parts, they give them an incentive to upgrade.

    also - IMO, If you cannot afford to replace your frame material - you should not be riding it.
    Just think about it..but these are my two cents on the issue.
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  21. #21
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    So after speaking with Mike for about 50 minutes he wants me to send the bike back for them to look at it on his dime.

    As for the dings, dings happen, you cant magically step off the bike when the bike breaks unexpectly on you when you are clipped in.
    I was lucky to have unclipped my right foot and step to the right which is when it probably got dinged.
    Heck when I bought the bike, the paint job was dinged here and there so they gave me a 25$ credit.

    As for the warranty, its understandable if i totally thrashed the bike that I would be at fault and pay for a new frame if i choose to go that route. but for them to want 400+ shipping doesnt seem like a warranty or assume I was at fault.

    Any way either way im out of a bike for now.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20sMotoSpirit
    Its not like replacing these types of parts are a new concept. Any bike shop will have the same issues with Trek, Specialized, Giant..etc. if it is proven to be a mfg defect, then they might gove you a good deal on a replacement frame... like BD. But its is NEVER FREE. I know this from doing warranty claims. The bike shop and company will charge for the will give you a frame credit - similar to the discount that moto give you and in addition to this, charge for shipping, reassembly, and return of the broken item.

    In recent years the new policy is not to replace the frame, but to give a bigger discount on the level of bike you buy to replace the existing one
    (not real numbers, but you will get the idea)
    IE - for crash replacement
    2003 trek 5900 with DA 9x3 = about $500 for a new 2010 5 series madone
    or $720 on a new 2010 6 series madone. " more you buy - more you save"

    This way companies do not have to give people newer frames for the older parts, they give them an incentive to upgrade.

    also - IMO, If you cannot afford to replace your frame material - you should not be riding it.
    Just think about it..but these are my two cents on the issue.
    what are you talking about? The standard in the industry is to replace FOR FREE a defective frame, typically to the original owner. The major variation is the lifespan of the warranty, ranging from a few years to lifetime. What you are describing is crash replacement programs.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklyte27
    So after speaking with Mike for about 50 minutes he wants me to send the bike back for them to look at it on his dime.

    As for the dings, dings happen, you cant magically step off the bike when the bike breaks unexpectly on you when you are clipped in.
    I was lucky to have unclipped my right foot and step to the right which is when it probably got dinged.
    Heck when I bought the bike, the paint job was dinged here and there so they gave me a 25$ credit.

    As for the warranty, its understandable if i totally thrashed the bike that I would be at fault and pay for a new frame if i choose to go that route. but for them to want 400+ shipping doesnt seem like a warranty or assume I was at fault.

    Any way either way im out of a bike for now.
    Ok, let's say the ding to the derailer was from falling over after the disaster (which you did not previously mention), that still does not explain how the hanger and drop out appear to have been bent and torn from the frame. A hanger gets bent from only a few causes, such as:
    • Banging the derailer into something
    • Attempting to force a rear shift into an easier gear while under heavy pedal load
    • Derailer limit screws not set correctly, allowing cage to connect with spokes


    If the hanger simply sheared off (without bending), you'd probalby have a clear case of frame defect.

    On the other hand, perhaps MB could do a better job designing the dropout/hanger. the value of a replaceable hanger is somewhat dubious if there it is likely going to break the dropout too..

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by RHankey
    Not to pick sides, but based on what I'm seeing in those pictures, I don't think this is a frame defect issue. Accept the crash replacement option and be happy.

    It appears you have torn the dropout (not replaceable) and the hanger (replaceable) in half. I say torn, as in one of the pictures, the hanger looks twisted and bent. In the same picture, I also see dings to the outer edge of the derailer which could have resulted from laying the bike down on the pavement. What ever dinged the derailer could have easily been what bent the derailer hanger, which in turn sets it up to go into the spokes when you are in your biggest cog (going up a hill).
    I agree. It looks like the bike was crashed....

    Without knowing what exactly happened here, it would be rare for the type of bending of the derailleur with the scrapes on the skewer and the rear of the seatstay from a "just riding along" scenario.

    Maybe BD can get this replaced at a more reasonable cost.

  25. #25
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    for goodness sakes, this is why bikes should be made of steel for everyone who isn't rich or sponsored.
    Lugged Steel Treks

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