2012 Pinarello Dogma 2 LIMITED EDITION - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    The crocked old man with a crocked old cane walked down the crocked old road. Oh wait!, now he can ride his crocked old bike. Honestly that thing looks like someone hit it with a stun gun and it tried to shrivel up.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    Here's a new picture of the Dogma 2 Limited Edition with Campy Bora Ultra 2 wheels. HOT!!

    Just in! Pinarello Dogma with Campagnolo EPS- Unboxed, weighed and first impressions - Bike Rumor
    Thanks for posting that, the write-up has some interesting info on the first impressions of the EPS system.
    I noticed that at least these guys had the sense to replace the Shamal wheels that came with the bike with the Bora2 wheels. I like Shamal wheels as they are for sure very nice wheels but what a complete cheap out to supply this super premium $ bike with them and command a price thousands above normal!!!

    These photos show the bike a little bit better than the initial photo (...any more?). The black schemes are difficult to capture photographically as the type and angle of the light source creates different visual effects and the camera does not always capture them. For instance; its quite hard to find photos that capture the Pina BOB paint scheme to full effect. All that said you can/will be able to do a custom build of the same bike (except for the unremarkable frame paint scheme) and with Bora2 wheels for many thousands less!!! The only requirement is a little knowledge and patience while the EPS parts become available. Incredible that someone would pop for this deal as it comes supplied out of the box. Sad fact is that someone out there will, though its doubtful that any of the cognoscenti here in this forum will be the ones to do so.
    campagnoloneutron
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  3. #28
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    I had a chance to check out one of the LE bikes the other day. It does look similar to some of the other BOB schemes they have within the line. 25 of these bikes are here in the states with 25 more on the way. Apparently there will be some Campy electric available for aftermarket sales sometime in the spring.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    Nope, I know the EPS Record Group will cost around the same price as the Dura Ace Di2. So, I'm guessing EPS Super Record might cost around $1000 or so more than the EPS Record Group. Anyway, Wrench Science always take care of me, so I know I will get a good price on the EPS Super Record Group.
    Best estimate to date on the SR EPS Group is $6200 - $6500 based on the price of the Pinarello LTD Dogma 2.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRFIXALL4 View Post
    I got to see the new Pinarello Dogma up close and personal today at Big Bang Bikes here in Pittsburgh. I was told it was the first one to arrive in the States. I don't know why anyone would care about that. But I have to agree with the general feelings here about this bike not having much bling. The Campy EPS isn't any more attractive than the Di2. I asked how much and they said $16,500.00. WTF are these manufacturers thinking. I'll bet the majority of those high dollar bikes are sold here in the USA. Lots of doctors and lawyers who can probably affrord a bike like that. I know I can't even afford the doctors, dentists, and lawyers. So I have no problem going to Chinese manufacturing. Hell I think my bike looks just as good as any bare carbon bike out there and it performs well enough to probably kick Pinarello's arse.
    That is the best looking of the chinese generics I have seen. by a LARGE margin. well done.
    I would indeed wager you could kick a little Pino butt with that.

  6. #31
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    MRFIXALL's bike looks far better than the Pinarello Dogma. Props to that dude. Well done.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRFIXALL4 View Post
    I got to see the new Pinarello Dogma up close and personal today at Big Bang Bikes here in Pittsburgh. I was told it was the first one to arrive in the States. I don't know why anyone would care about that. But I have to agree with the general feelings here about this bike not having much bling. The Campy EPS isn't any more attractive than the Di2. I asked how much and they said $16,500.00. WTF are these manufacturers thinking. I'll bet the majority of those high dollar bikes are sold here in the USA. Lots of doctors and lawyers who can probably affrord a bike like that. I know I can't even afford the doctors, dentists, and lawyers. So I have no problem going to Chinese manufacturing. Hell I think my bike looks just as good as any bare carbon bike out there and it performs well enough to probably kick Pinarello's arse.
    Awesome build

  8. #33
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    I can get the eps system now if anyone wants it

  9. #34
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    I thought about that bike but ended up ordering a white and red 2012 Paris with the Campy Chorus group from Competitive Cyclist last Friday. EPS is interesting but, like the rest of you, I just couldn't imagine spending $16,500 for a completely nondescript black bicycle. I don't even like black bikes.

    You're also paying a huge premium to get out on the leading edge with EPS. It seemed to me that if I was going to spend that kind of money on electronic Campy derailleurs, I'd want to wait until I could do it on a bike that also had hydraulic disk brakes designed for a road bike, which is probably 2 years away. I'm 61; it's not worth waiting. (In December, I test-rode a 2011 Campy Dogma with carbon wheels. Oh, my. Worst brakes ever. I would never buy carbon wheels with rim brakes.)
    Last edited by Nicole Hamilton; 02-22-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Hamilton View Post
    It seemed to me that if I was going to spend that kind of money on electronic Campy derailleurs, I'd want to wait until I could do it on a bike that also had hydraulic disk brakes designed for a road bike, which is probably 2 years away. I'm 61; it's not worth waiting.
    You wont have to wait 2 years, you can have hydraulics later this year
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnV View Post
    You wont have to wait 2 years, you can have hydraulics later this year
    That's only just the brakes. You also need all the other parts, including the frame, fork, hubs and so on, and they all have to be designed to accommodate the very different braking forces. I don't think they're available, at least, not anything really tuned for a road bike. And I doubt that'll change this year. Also, though maybe not a factor for others, after 38 years on Campy, I'm not switching now.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Hamilton View Post
    That's only just the brakes. You also need all the other parts, including the frame, fork, hubs and so on, and they all have to be designed to accommodate the very different braking forces. I don't think they're available, at least, not anything really tuned for a road bike. And I doubt that'll change this year. Also, though maybe not a factor for others, after 38 years on Campy, I'm not switching now.
    This is a good point. Hydraulics may be available, but the braking forces may require additional structural support to the frame and/or fork.

    It's certainly not as simple as tossing some hydraulic brakes on there. At least, I wouldn't do it.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Hamilton View Post
    I thought about that bike but ended up ordering a white and red 2012 Paris with the Campy Chorus group from Competitive Cyclist last Friday. EPS is interesting but, like the rest of you, I just couldn't imagine spending $16,500 for a completely nondescript black bicycle. I don't even like black bikes.

    You're also paying a huge premium to get out on the leading edge with EPS. It seemed to me that if I was going to spend that kind of money on electronic Campy derailleurs, I'd want to wait until I could do it on a bike that also had hydraulic disk brakes designed for a road bike, which is probably 2 years away. I'm 61; it's not worth waiting. (In December, I test-rode a 2011 Campy Dogma with carbon wheels. Oh, my. Worst brakes ever. I would never buy carbon wheels with rim brakes.)
    That's interesting that you say that about campy's braking issue, but you buy the Chorus group? I ride the SR groupset and the braking is amazing. I do have carbon Enve rims, use the dual pivot brakes and did swap out the pads to DT Yellow Stop pads. Maybe you were riding a single pivot rear or the bike wasn't tuned.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vboy19 View Post
    That's interesting that you say that about campy's braking issue, but you buy the Chorus group? I ride the SR groupset and the braking is amazing.
    My comment wasn't intended as a dig at Campy rim brakes. Sorry if it sounded that way. I wouldn't buy rim brakes with carbon rims because I don't think they work even as well as the 38-yo Weinmann centerpulls I have now. But that has nothing to do with Campy; I wouldn't buy that combination from anyone.

    What I meant is that a lot of the appeal of EPS is the technology leap from mechanical to electronic. If you're at all inclined to be an "early adopter" (and, as an engineer, I tend to be), it's exciting to have the newest thing and be the first to get some personal experience. But (again, perhaps as an engineer), I like a design to be balanced so that everything goes together in all the usual ways, including quality, style, technological sophistication, etc.

    There's nothing wrong with rim brakes, especially with a metal rim. You couldn't ask for more tried and true technology. I had single-pivot rim brakes on my J.C. Higgins 3-speed around 1962. Centerpulls fixed the rubbing on one side problem and I've been happy with mine, especially as I'm basically a fair-weather rider. (I ride because it's fun and if I'm getting drenched and the bike is getting filthy, that's not fun for me, even before we get to the problem of braking.) Even "modern" sidepulls aren't particularly more modern than the sidepulls you could have bought in the 90s.

    It's possible disk brakes aren't actually the future for road bikes because of the usual objections, including weight, aerodynamics, blah, blah, blah. I don't claim my crystal ball is perfect. But my personal take is that disks are the future, they will take over and that it will be fast. I'm not predicting, but it would not surprise me to read a news article 5 years from now reporting that half of all road bikes over $2000 are shipping with disk brakes.

    If I was going to build up a bike that I viewed a leading edge technology bike, then of course I'd want EPS. But there's just no good option for pairing that leading edge drivetrain with equally leading edge brakes. You get undeniably great, reliable, tried and true brakes. But they're not leading edge.

    I keep a bike a long time (obviously). It would pain me to build a leading edge bike and spend a lot of money on it knowing that it will be painfully out-of-date in 2 years and that if I had instead waited the 2 years, I could build a leading edge bike that could remain leading edge for more like 10 years.

    Finally, as engineer, I think about the learning curve, the sailing ship phenomenon and paradigms. The learning curve speaks to the fact that as we build more of something, we get better at it. The sailing ship phenomenon refers to the amazing refinement of sailing ships and all the tall ships that appeared just before they were overtaken by steam; by the end of a given technology's reign, it's usually really, really good at what it does, even in the basic models. Paradigms are the constraints your technology imposes on what you can think about. Change the technology and you change the paradigm. Let me give you an example: With an electronic drivetrain, you can think about an automatic transmission and it wouldn't even necessarily have to add anything to the weight.

    I decided that for what I wanted, I was happy to buy the really well-made sailing ship model. It's fabulously refined technology, they definitely know how to make it, the Chorus pricing reflected that, and I just didn't feel like the next-generation option was really soup yet.

  15. #40
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    Just wanted to touch a bit more about hydralic rim brakes. Magura has had hydralic rim brakes for years now. I had a set of the H-33 on a mountainbike and my opinion is they were the best stoppers I have ever used. Much better than disc brakes and more reliable than pads in bad weather. I think if Sram can do it as good as Magura only geared towards roadbikes it will be a welcome advancement. I think all this electric shifting stuff will die out because lets face it, there are many reasons for not using batteries and it doesn't take much to knock em out of commission. How many people would enjoy a technical breakdown while on a group ride? And on a final note about designing bikes unified with the component group thought into it. That doesn't happen. Marketing would have you believe that but you got to be a pretty big sucker to actually believe it. The bike industry, bike builders I should say, not the component manufacturers, just doesn't employ the highly edjucated and technical know how to do that kind of R&D and I would laugh at anyone who tries to tell me differently.

  16. #41
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    Campy DP Super Record brakes + Shamals = Spectacular braking.

  17. #42
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    $16,500 is comical.

  18. #43
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    that looks awesome to be honest, I don't care if it's China

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