The 65.1 Fakes Have Arrived! - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Is it bad that i want to get a chinarello dogma2 frame and swap over my components from my legit paris just to say i have a dogma (lets be honest a reg person cannot tell the difference between a chinarello and a pinarello).
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinrm View Post
    Is it bad that i want to get a chinarello dogma2 frame and swap over my components from my legit paris just to say i have a dogma (lets be honest a reg person cannot tell the difference between a chinarello and a pinarello).
    Yes it is.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxRomana View Post
    I think what he is saying is that the Dogma 65.1 is now made in China as well, meaning closer access for counterfeits, so the new fakes will be of much higher quality and look even more like the originals.
    The argument is sound IF the facts are correct, however, it's my understanding that;

    - All 2012 models except Dogma were wholly made in TAIWAN (not China). My new Quattro has a "Made in Taiwan" sticker next to the serial #.

    - All 2012 Dogma frames were built in Taiwan and finished in Italy.

    Is it confirmed that frame production has shifted from Taiwan to China, and for all models?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliveDS View Post
    That's just wrong.

    You pay more for a cheap China fake because it has Pinarello logo's then you show up on a ride posing that you have a Pinarello when it's clear to everyone that you "want to" have a Pinarello but could not swing it.
    Yeah, especially if throw Tiagra or 105 on it.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinrm View Post
    Is it bad that i want to get a chinarello dogma2 frame and swap over my components from my legit paris just to say i have a dogma (lets be honest a reg person cannot tell the difference between a chinarello and a pinarello).
    Not sure why you would want to do that. I suspect that your legit Paris would ride much nicer than a chinarello dogma, it certainly won't be worse.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinrm View Post
    (lets be honest a reg person cannot tell the difference between a chinarello and a pinarello).
    Exercise in futility.
    Objective: impress people with a fake Dogma.
    Most enthusiasts could tell it's a fake, so they won't be impressed.
    Reg person can't tell the difference, but reg person wouldn't be impressed by Dogma anyway.
    Net result: enthusiasts unimpressed or think you're a goof for having a fake. Reg people unimpressed or more likely uninterested.
    No benefit.

  7. #32
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    Did you know that these counterfeit frames are actually asymmetric. Check it out, look at the left and right side of the down tube, fork, top tube, and rear chain stay. Its actually amazing.

    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...635319214.html

    I really wonder how one of these newer ones ride.
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  8. #33
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    A regular person doesn't know the difference between a paris and a dogma2, so why bother? Performance wise you won't know the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinrm View Post
    Is it bad that i want to get a chinarello dogma2 frame and swap over my components from my legit paris just to say i have a dogma (lets be honest a reg person cannot tell the difference between a chinarello and a pinarello).

  9. #34
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    I just registered here after finding this thread on Google. I couldn't resist having some input on this topic, as I have a fairly unique experience in this area. For a start, I own genuine 60.1 and my wife has a genuine Prince. They're lovely frames, but the fact is, they're not worth anything like the price consumers are required to pay - it's almost comical, really. A Dogma frame in Australia $9,900AUD! I also used to ride downhill MTB and paid overwhelmingly less for a fully-kitted downhill frame than for a genuine Pinarello, which is just a basic carbon wrap! My son is a composites engineer and bought an early 60.1 "Chinarello" two years ago out of curiousity. What we found was... nothing... That is to say, the frame was faultless and beautifully engineered; the only exception being some excess resin in the BB threads, which needed to be cleaned out.

    Since then, I've run a "fake" Dogma2 (for a year, doing 550km a week) and my son (and three friends) have done the same. Not a single issue. The quality now is seriously on par with my real 60.1, which now hangs in the garage!

    I've just ordered a new 65.1 and look forward to receiving it. Perhaps it's a little unethical, but so is charging 10k for a frame, which is made in China in exactly the same region as the "fakes", at a neighbouring factory (yes, that's correct). Pinarello lost me as a customer as soon as I became aware of their faux-Italian manufacturing! That's more unethical than anything.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qarbon View Post
    I just registered here after finding this thread on Google. I couldn't resist having some input on this topic, as I have a fairly unique experience in this area. For a start, I own genuine 60.1 and my wife has a genuine Prince. They're lovely frames, but the fact is, they're not worth anything like the price consumers are required to pay - it's almost comical, really. A Dogma frame in Australia $9,900AUD! I also used to ride downhill MTB and paid overwhelmingly less for a fully-kitted downhill frame than for a genuine Pinarello, which is just a basic carbon wrap! My son is a composites engineer and bought an early 60.1 "Chinarello" two years ago out of curiousity. What we found was... nothing... That is to say, the frame was faultless and beautifully engineered; the only exception being some excess resin in the BB threads, which needed to be cleaned out.

    Since then, I've run a "fake" Dogma2 (for a year, doing 550km a week) and my son (and three friends) have done the same. Not a single issue. The quality now is seriously on par with my real 60.1, which now hangs in the garage!

    I've just ordered a new 65.1 and look forward to receiving it. Perhaps it's a little unethical, but so is charging 10k for a frame, which is made in China in exactly the same region as the "fakes", at a neighbouring factory (yes, that's correct). Pinarello lost me as a customer as soon as I became aware of their faux-Italian manufacturing! That's more unethical than anything.
    Interesting to hear from someone who actually has owned and ridden both. Thanks for posting but you obviously don't know the amount of retaliation you're about to receive from the enthusiasts on this forum!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qarbon View Post
    A Dogma frame in Australia $9,900AUD!
    30 seconds on Google found a Dogma2 complete with Campagnolo Super Record and Fulcrum 3 wheels for $9500.

    Glen Parker Cycles - Specials

    I agree about the price being ridiculous actually, it's the same in North America where one distributor has a monopoly on the market. Buying from Europe is the only way to go, better selection and price.
    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 09-16-2012 at 06:53 AM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    30 seconds on Google found a Dogma2 complete with Campagnolo Super Record and Fulcrum 3 wheels for $9500.

    Glen Parker Cycles - Specials

    I agree about the price being ridiculous actually, it's the same in North America where one distributor has a monopoly on the market. Buying from Europe is the only way to go, better selection and price.
    what stores do you buy your pinarellos from?
    Looking to buy a second bike.
    But very tempted by the chinarello.

  13. #38
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    Shinybikes or Bellatisport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Shinybikes or Bellatisport
    Bellatisport is a great place to buy cycling stuff.

  15. #40
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    Yeah but don't u get hammered on customs?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero77 View Post
    Yeah but don't u get hammered on customs?
    I have never had a problem with customs, even on my large orders. They usually only sieze the items if its multiple same items in a package, or something that looks suspicious. They chinese also do 2 other things to help you out, they mark the package as a gift to avoid suspicion, and they put a low numerical value on the package to lower import tax. However, there is still one more layer of security, packages sent through EMS often do not get scrupulous attention paid to them from customs unlike USPS.
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  17. #42
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    What site has the best chinarellos?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero77 View Post
    What site has the best chinarellos?
    The best frames i have seen yet are from aliexpress seller greatkeenbikes. I made a post about this frame earlier being completely asymmetric like the real dogma. If you get one please post pictures. I have never personally bought from greatkeenbikes but on the chinese carbon frame thread other people have and they have been happy with the bikes.

    If i were to buy one i would get this one after many hours of research, for fun.
    Aliexpress.com : Buy 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think2 white red Full Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset from Reliable 2013 Pinarello suppliers on Greatkeen Bike Sport equipment co.,LTD(aero seatpost)

    They also have different paint options but make sure its the same frame, you want the asymmetric frame set.
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  19. #44
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    I'm far from purchasing a chinarello but sooo tempted. Would build it up with eps athena. But just bought a real dogma 2.but very tempted can't beat that price

  20. #45
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    I just want to see what one of these look like in real life. Ive already said to myself if i get in a crash during a race im getting a chinarello next time (prob put my own decals on it, and make it mine). I just am not gonna pay $4k for a new frame.
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  21. #46
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    Don't understand why anyone would want to take a chance and ride a bike that is made anonomously by some fly by night shop in China. Even if you are riding a Motobecane it is manufactured with quality control checks and adheres to the standards that Motobecane puts in place. These fake Pinarello's or for that matter any of the bikes being sold through Alibabi or other sights could be held together by duct tape under the first layer of carbon. I wouldn't trust bombing some descent with a knock off frame. Same thing with these guys buying cheap carbon wheels.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggrin View Post
    Don't understand why anyone would want to take a chance and ride a bike that is made anonomously by some fly by night shop in China. Even if you are riding a Motobecane it is manufactured with quality control checks and adheres to the standards that Motobecane puts in place. These fake Pinarello's or for that matter any of the bikes being sold through Alibabi or other sights could be held together by duct tape under the first layer of carbon. I wouldn't trust bombing some descent with a knock off frame. Same thing with these guys buying cheap carbon wheels.
    Read the chinese carbon frames and wheel threads and see what people who have actually bought/riden this products think about them. Lately the chinese manufactures have produced much better carbon products than 2-3 years ago.
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  23. #48
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    so now this thread is endorsing/posting links/recommending purchasing chinarellos?!

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayovolks View Post
    so now this thread is endorsing/posting links/recommending purchasing chinarellos?!
    People ask, i answer. I have my own opinions on these chinarellos, but i dont endorse perse.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    All they need to make an exact copy is the file for the CNC mill that cuts the molds....it's probably on the Pirate Bay by now.
    That is what is needed to make a replica, but a little more than that is required to make an "exact" copy. Specifically engineering documents that detail the carbon/resin used, ply layups, cure schedules....and so on.

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