The 65.1 Fakes Have Arrived! - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin001 View Post
    That is what is needed to make a replica, but a little more than that is required to make an "exact" copy. Specifically engineering documents that detail the carbon/resin used, ply layups, cure schedules....and so on.
    My bad.

    Looks are all that matter to some buyers. Some sellers use pics stolen from the Pina website or people's picture galleries. The deleted Madfiber thread had an ad for wheels which used a pic stolen from someone's picasa gallery. What you see may not be what you get.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rucskus View Post
    How about this.....it's getting hotter
    Is that yours?
    Road: Pinarello Paris
    MTB: Mongoose Ontero

  3. #53
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    now on fleabay of course.

    Pinarello DOGMA 65.1 Think 2 2013 Frameset NEW

    for US$ 3,599

  4. #54
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    ^ Complete with a picture stolen from the Pinarello website.

    Buy on Dh for $600 and sell on EBay for $3599...not a bad profit!

  5. #55
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    Looks like Chinarellos and Masi are made in same place.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by merckxman; 10-05-2012 at 03:53 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckxman View Post
    Lookslike Chinarellos and Masi are made in same place.
    Where did you find these pictures?

    P.S Do not look up Masi on DHGate, its not a bike frame. . .
    Road: Pinarello Paris
    MTB: Mongoose Ontero

  7. #57
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    Those pics are great merckxman. Sadly those Masis are probably the legit ones.

    Here's a link to the counterfeiter's own facebook page, with tons of interesting pictures...Cycle Links House | Facebook...he has all kinds of frames, Pina, Bianchi, Cervelo, even carbon shoe soles. Maybe he is making fake Sidis?

    Public Enemy Number One for Pinarello, Cervelo and Bianchi:
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    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 10-04-2012 at 07:00 AM.

  8. #58
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    They would have a better chance passing those frames off as dogma 2 as they don't appear to have the manual/electronic cable routes of the new 65.1.

    While on first impression they appear to be pretty good imitations there are obvious differences such as the dogma print overlaps the red, the tones on the font for the black orange are also wrong. These "mistakes" helps when trying to spot the fakes.

  9. #59
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    Of course the decals and paint are going to be off. It's done by kids looking at a picture on a laptop for guidance. Some of the frames do have the dual routing of the 65.1, it can be seen in other pics on the site. In these pictures the black grommets have not yet been attached so it doesn't show up.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #60
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    don't forget this other d-bag on f-book.

    CarbonXsports

  11. #61
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    For those that bought the chinarellos. Are the bottom bracket Italian thread or is it still English thread?

  12. #62
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    on fleabay, with fake bora wheels

    2013 Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think2 New

  13. #63
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    That's awful...not even close.

  14. #64
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    I just struggled through this decision. Found a bike with a full SRAM Force kit and decent other components (wheels, bars) for $1000, so I could put a full bike together for maybe $1800 with a fake frame and miscellaneous parts. But Force on a Dogma frame would be a dead giveaway anyway.

    Found a leftover '11 Paris frame in my size for $2500, so could put that together for $3500. Then I found the same setup using a closeout '12 frame built for me for $4100

    Would love to know the real weight of one of these Chinarello frames compared to what it's mimicking. Also, what quality of carbon they are using.

    Anyway, made my decision to get the real Pina, just a lesser one that I can afford.

    Fakes are theft and rip off everybody, including those who own the real thing.

    Unless of course we are talking about fake Cervelos. That would be something else entirely!

  15. #65
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    My China frame is on hopefully a fast boat as we speak. It's a Think 2 replica as i simply could not afford the real thing. I've already done the second hand real deal route buying a Look 481 which has been fantastic and a budget way in to the sport to find out if I had the staying power, which I have and I've joined a club. In the recession we are in people will look for budget options and having researched thoroughly I've decided to go replica. I get a style of frame I like and it's enabled me to scrimp less on the components so I'll be full 2013 Chorus with Mavic Cosmic SL's. A guy in the club has a legit Dog 2 in the same size so I'm going to do some side by side pics which he's happy to do, I did say, look this is a fake so I would understand if he didn't want to but he doesn't care. I probs will never sell this frame, most likely make it my winter bike if I ever changed but it will most likely enable me to buy a TT bike as well if the bug totally hits. I certainly would not try and pass it off as the real deal but understand that there are some unscrupulous people out there that would try and rip someone off. The dedicated forum thread to the china frames and velobuild seem to be full of genuine people just looking to build a nice budget bike. Also the manufacturer/agent I chose have fully EN tested their products, we might not get a sticker but they have the test equipment and their own reputation to keep. If you look into it, there are a lot of happy people. I wish I'd found out I could have had Chinerello on the side for no extra cost before I had it shipped and that would have covered my intentions but it will have Pinarello on, and ok it's not real and I would say the same to anyone asking but it's still free advertising to the company that put the RnD and design into it's creation and copies just spurs the company on to make further innovation and retain exclusivity. Ok that's a bit of self justification but Pina have not lost out on a sale with me or most likely any other person buying a replica.

  16. #66
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    Doesn't bother me one bit these fakes.
    How many are really bought compared to the actual revenue Pinarello generates.
    Bike snobs can't stand the fact that a Walmart clerk can get a great looking bike for 10% of the actual cost. Think of these frames as if they were diamonds. Diamonds are a big ripoff and so are these boutique frames. Chinerello's are as safe as any frame on the road these days. Far East manufacturing has come a long way and these guys on Alibaba do not make the frame as they are distributors only. Guess who makes these frames? Same factory as the bike you ride on today in all likeliness.
    So when someone rides a Chinerello on his/her next club ride, some fat overweight dentist or lawyer type doesn't even sniff their nose at the replica itself but rather at the fact that their bike is no longer 'exclusive'. Someone compared the Chinerello to a Fiero-Ferrari copy. The Chinerello is a much more closer replica.

    Maybe if the Pinarellos were still actually made in Italy then it would/could demand the extra cost for real craftmanship. Not so however, Pinarello went to Asia to save money...wow, what a concept... So some cheapo gets theirs from Asia too...What's the real difference? Purists can go on ALL DAY, but who cares. People harp on the safety issue where there really is none. Pinarello itself has a warehouse of bad frames returned on warranty. Chinerello's have no warranty (not a practical one anyways) so it's buyer beware. 2013 will see the gap between real and replicas narrow with only the finish and decals the difference. The rawness of the finish is why they are so cheap and of course perhaps the carbon grade.

    I think I'll get one just to piss off the dork that has one in our shop group.

  17. #67
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    I won't get piss off, because someone is riding a fake Dogma in my group or area. It's just tell me a little something about the kind of person he is buying a fake product. You assume most people who ride a Dogma, C59 or other high end bikes must be a lawyer, doctor or some rich dude. Well, you are so wrong because I'm not rich at all, but if I want something I will start saving my money to buy the real product I wanted to buy. Buying a fake frame will only support the criminals. If money is an issue than there are many nice frames made by a lot of very good bike brands.

  18. #68
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    Im not assuming at all that every Dogma owner is a rich dude, just demonstrating an example of a Dogma owner. Same can be said for owning a Porsche: buy it with the money you have in your left sock or save up and buy one.

    Many nice people buy replica bikes. Doesn't mean they are lesser people. I'll buy one for the style and to race in crits. If I crash then the loss is limited...

    If counterfeiting is so heinous, we should really blow up all Walmarts. Everything there is practically a made in China replica of some sort, disposable if anything.

    And yes, there are many, many nice, inexpensive frames to suit all budgets. It seems as though the Dogma styling to many is irresistible fake or otherwise hence that desire to own one.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    I won't get piss off, because someone is riding a fake Dogma in my group or area. It's just tell me a little something about the kind of person he is buying a fake product. You assume most people who ride a Dogma, C59 or other high end bikes must be a lawyer, doctor or some rich dude. Well, you are so wrong because I'm not rich at all, but if I want something I will start saving my money to buy the real product I wanted to buy. Buying a fake frame will only support the criminals. If money is an issue than there are many nice frames made by a lot of very good bike brands.
    ^This...lots of people save and sacrifice to get nice bikes, it's their one luxury in life.

    And even those doctors and lawyers work plenty hard for their money. My neighbour and riding buddy does plenty of 24hr (or more) shifts in the ER. I don't resent him having a nice bike.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    ^This...lots of people save and sacrifice to get nice bikes, it's their one luxury in life.

    And even those doctors and lawyers work plenty hard for their money. My neighbour and riding buddy does plenty of 24hr (or more) shifts in the ER. I don't resent him having a nice bike.
    I agree, a lot of people do sacrifice everything to get a nice bike. Why do people work so hard in life? Some want to buy a nice house, some want a nice car and some people just want to buy a dream bike.

    If I wanted just a nice bike and didn't want to spend $$$$, I would be happy riding a Cannondale CAAD10 over any counterfeit frame or bike.

    But I always wanted to buy a Dogma and I saved up everything I had to make the purchase.

  21. #71
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    What about the people who arent actually buying decalled frames. Plain black clear coated stuff. I mean if you google chinarello you can obviously see some certainly not interested in passing it as an original when it is not.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.baig View Post
    What about the people who arent actually buying decalled frames. Plain black clear coated stuff. I mean if you google chinarello you can obviously see some certainly not interested in passing it as an original when it is not.
    I have the Dogma 2 Bob color frame and you can barely see the Pinarello Dogma 2 decals, because everything is black on black. You can just look at the frame and know it's a Pinarello. So, I think even if the Chinarello frame got no decals on the frame but they got parts on the frame which look like a Pinarello, it's a counterfeit frame. For example if you are driving and looking in your rearview mirror, you see a car behind you, just by looking at the front grille you can tell it's a BMW without looking at their logo.

  23. #73
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    apn, your SN appears to be formatted the same as my FPQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by apn View Post
    Is this limited to Dogma models?

    Curious, since it doesn't appear to be the case for my 2012 Quattro, from my reg email;

    FRAME DATA
    Retail purchase date: 2012-04-06
    Sales receipt number:
    Model: FPQUATTRO
    year: 2012
    Color: W/B/R 593
    Size: 56
    Wheels: Fulcrum Racing 5
    Group: Ultegra
    Frame serial number: 2AZ********98

    NOTES ON THE REGISTRATION:

    Sincerely,
    Cicli Pinarello S.p.A.
    Bill

    “You can change or stay the same, there are no rules to this thing...We can make the best or the worst of it."

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    I have the Dogma 2 Bob color frame and you can barely see the Pinarello Dogma 2 decals, because everything is black on black. You can just look at the frame and know it's a Pinarello. So, I think even if the Chinarello frame got no decals on the frame but they got parts on the frame which look like a Pinarello, it's a counterfeit frame. For example if you are driving and looking in your rearview mirror, you see a car behind you, just by looking at the front grille you can tell it's a BMW without looking at their logo.
    Yeah i think i actually dont agree with that. There has to be a certain percent of plagiarism before it can be classed as a counterfeit. I am neither for or against buying it though.

    Only certain people can look and know straight away its a pinarello. Maybe after the exploits of team sky at the tour more commoners have the knowledge on certain products but i dont think average joe is still that much interested in a high end pinarello.

    All that aside, the analogy of a bmw badge to a bicycle is irrelevant. If you would have said a ferrari/lambo i would have agreed on that point. The other thing is you mention the BMW logo, how many people will actually know it is a pinarello if there are no logos on it and it is running tiagra and low end alu wheels.

    Justifiable or not, this is an open ended argument. Off course people who own real pinarellos are ticked off but on the other hand i dont think people buying these frames from china actually care about anyone else's opinion.. Then again there is also the anonymity over the internet where people are calling for frames to brake and people to get hurt which i think is uncalled for however does beg the question if you would react the same way if a chinarello rider was riding right next to you and was all open about it being a fake and not caring what you thought about him and his bike.

  25. #75
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    The 65.1 Fakes Have Arrived!

    What kind of BB that these china made dogmas come with?

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