The 65.1 Fakes Have Arrived! - Page 5
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogma65 View Post
    Such SN is fake (KD201308)
    Attachment 287300
    not even close to real

  2. #102
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    How could any one be conned when their Dogma is coming from China and they are only paying $520? For the money it looks like a decent (but counterfeit) frame with a nice paint job. My understanding is the companys that actually manufacture these frames pull out random samples for standardized testing so its unlikely to fall apart or crack any more than name brand frames. The fact that Pinarello or the importer Gita does not seem to be defending their trademark (like Specialized is with their Venge frames etc.) makes me wonder how much they really care about this!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by masi85 View Post
    How could any one be conned when their Dogma is coming from China and they are only paying $520? For the money it looks like a decent (but counterfeit) frame with a nice paint job. My understanding is the companys that actually manufacture these frames pull out random samples for standardized testing so its unlikely to fall apart or crack any more than name brand frames. The fact that Pinarello or the importer Gita does not seem to be defending their trademark (like Specialized is with their Venge frames etc.) makes me wonder how much they really care about this!
    Good point. Some posters announce that they are consciously buying fake frames, assuming reliability, without warranty. Bike snobs care, of course, and Pinarello's market has a bunch of snobs, for sure. I'm guessing most of the buyers could drop ten pounds easily. Which extra weight pretty much erases any benefits from Assymetric-designed 60-ton carbon. So the snobs buy new from dealers and spend a lot of time polishing and worrying about scratches. I bought a legit used 2012 Paris frame (got SN verified by Gita, has correct paint, factory cable guides, badging...seems to hold up to scrutiny.) But got a deal because Giovanni has not signed off on it. I'll let you know if it breaks.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by masi85 View Post
    My understanding is the companys that actually manufacture these frames pull out random samples for standardized testing so its unlikely to fall apart or crack any more than name brand frames.
    Can you document that? EFBE has a list of all the frames they test, I don't see Dengfu on it anywhere.
    The fact that Pinarello or the importer Gita does not seem to be defending their trademark (like Specialized is with their Venge frames etc.) makes me wonder how much they really care about this!
    Just how do you suggest they go about enforcing their IP rights in a sovereign country? China's gov't couldn't care less. Specialized, Cervelo, Colnago and Bianchi copies are all available. Phone up your Chinese ambassador and see what he does about it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by masi85 View Post
    How could any one be conned when their Dogma is coming from China and they are only paying $520?
    I'm sure it's licensed frame. Why? See for yourself: in the Chinese market Cannondale sold as Cann0nda1 or as SuperLight, Cervelo as just R5, Colnago as C01nag0, that is hiding the name of the brand. This means that Cannondale, Cervelo and Colnago prohibit selling fake under his own name. Pinarello sold under real name. This suggests that the Italians moved manufacturing to China serial frames. For the mass consumer

    For example: why real name of brand is hidden?
    SuperSix EVO Frame XRoad Bicycle Frame and fork wholesale full carbon bicycle frame hot sale! super light!-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    And this brand is not hidden:
    2013 model Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 028 White Carbon Bike Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset road bicycle-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    (sorry for bad english, I just began to study it

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Can you document that? EFBE has a list of all the frames they test, I don't see Dengfu on it anywhere.

    Just how do you suggest they go about enforcing their IP rights in a sovereign country? China's gov't couldn't care less. Specialized, Cervelo, Colnago and Bianchi copies are all available. Phone up your Chinese ambassador and see what he does about it.

    1) I was referring to the in factory test rigs all these manufacturers use on a daily basis to maintain consistent quality.

    2) I was referring to enforcing their trademarks in the end user countries like Specialized is doing in the US now by working with Customs to intercept and detain shipments infringing on their IP rights. Is Pinarello doing the same thing in the EU now?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogma65 View Post
    I'm sure it's licensed frame.
    That's so ridiculous I don't even know how to debate it.

    It's not licensed. It's not even a good copy. And if was licensed the copies would be more uniform, there are obvious variations in design and finish among the copies.

    I recently posted photos of fake Cervelo, Colnago and Bianchi frames alongside fake Pinarellos in a counterfeiter's workshop. All had the brand names on them.

    Pinarello has many of their own models for the mass market.
    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 10-01-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by masi85 View Post
    1) I was referring to the in factory test rigs all these manufacturers use on a daily basis to maintain consistent quality.
    You've visited all of them to see these rigs?
    Lots of these sellers claim to be sending their frames to EFBE or equivalents for CE testing. But they can't prove it when asked about it.
    Also, I've seen some well respected framebuilders who do NO testing.


    2) I was referring to enforcing their trademarks in the end user countries like Specialized is doing in the US now by working with Customs to intercept and detain shipments infringing on their IP rights. Is Pinarello doing the same thing in the EU now?
    I believe Gita and Pina are both trying to do it but it is very difficult, much more difficult than it may appear. Look how hard the entertainment industry is fighting piracy, yet they are losing the battle. Brand name clothing companies also fight hard yet you can find tons of fake Rolexes or Louis Vuitton easily.
    Customs have limited resources and have much higher priority things to worry about than bicycles or purses. I work in a company that sends product all over the world, I deal with customs a lot. You can't imagine the volume of packages in a customs clearing center. Like I said, they have their priorities, and the rest, there's no time. Think about the last time you crossed a land border, did they take every single car apart? No, of course not. They do what they can but they can't do everything.
    EBay...they don't even accept reports of fake items anymore.
    Hiring lawyers to pursue counterfeiters? Well, just call up a lawyer and ask him how much it will cost to track down a counterfeiter (not an easy thing to do thanks to anonymous sales sites like aliexpress) and then go to China and launch a case in Chinese court.
    Yes Specialized is trying but they aren't making much progress. Just a few days ago someone posted a fake Venge in the Specialized section of this forum, and tried top pass it off as legit.
    Finally, I'd say don't blame Pinarello for not enforcing the copyright, the fraudsters in China and their collaborators over here are the criminals.
    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 10-01-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    That's so ridiculous I don't even know how to debate it.
    Ah, yes. I'm sorry, my English mistakes again. I would like to say that it is "licensed factory" ( not for professionals). Green color does not exist in the catalog - it is my order (in person).
    Please wait. I do repairs in my room (painting the ceiling, walls, etc.), will soon make a bike and start speed test (now there is no free space in my room)
    Place your bets: will be 55 km / h or less? Before, I was driving maximum 53 km/h (33 miles/h) on a hybrid 28"

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinrm View Post
    The best frames i have seen yet are from aliexpress seller greatkeenbikes.
    It appears that some of the folks from Greatkeenbikes have left and started Joybikes. I actually got a much better response from Joybike than Greatkeenbikes. I contacted Shana who used to work there and was on velobuild too. She recomended Bob from Joybikes.


    They also have different paint options but make sure its the same frame, you want the asymmetric frame set.
    I think all the frams sold now are the asymmetric ones.

  11. #111
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    The stem police would like a few words with you.

    Also...seat not level.


  12. #112
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    Looks like someone has been reading the "Headset for a new-ish Chinese carbon frame" thread...

  13. #113
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    Interesting review! Results are as expected. The finish on these Chinese frames is often less than perfect but they seem to stay together in one piece even after jumping curbs. And if it eventually cracks somewhere toss it and get another. All my riding buddies have name brand bikes (Trek, Litespeed -Ti, Cervelo) that eventually cracked so it's not just the cheap frames that fail.

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