DOGMA 60.1 vs PRINCE - FULL REVIEW
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    188

    DOGMA 60.1 vs PRINCE - FULL REVIEW

    I have finally finished the review of my the DOGMA 60.1 versus the PRINCE. To see the complete review, visit the link below. I will happily answer any other questions.

    Enjoy....

    http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009...lo-prince.html

  2. #2

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,305
    Good stuff. As tempting as the Dogma is, I really like my Prince in the orange and black.

    The Trigon/MoST bars are really nice and exceptionally comfortable. I have yet to see something from Trigon I did not like. Their frames are quite impressive as well. I think Pinarello did well to contract with them.
    "Whoever still can't put one and one together about what happened in cycling is beyond my help." - Jan Ullrich

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    70
    interesting comparo. how different are the prince and dogma to the fp7 and fp3.

    are they all a case of dimishing returns or is there a marked difference in stiffness, comfort and handling.

    cheers mate.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    328
    Nice comparison - not to be nit-picky, but you wrote 'croup' instead of 'group' in the middle of the write up.

    I'd love to have a quick spin on either bike - your wheels on the Prince cost more than my entire bike.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    125
    Great Review.

    There is a review of the FP7 somewhere in the Pinarello forum I believe. I would expect it would be a similar experience as the dogma prince review in most ways. The FP7 is a great value though if you can work with the stock setup.
    Bart Stetler
    QueenCity Bicycles
    1408-A East Blvd
    Charlotte NC 28203
    704-522-7006
    www.queencitybicycles.com

  6. #6
    Batteries not required
    Reputation: BunnV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,035
    Quote Originally Posted by natethomas2000
    Nice comparison - not to be nit-picky, but you wrote 'croup' instead of 'group' in the middle of the write up.

    I'd love to have a quick spin on either bike - your wheels on the Prince cost more than my entire bike.
    The wheels on the Prince are HED Ardennes ($1000), the wheels on the Dogma are Edge Carbon (tubulars?, clinchers?) probably $2500 or more.

    In the write up he said both bikes had the same wheels. Obviously they didn't when he took the pictures. I wonder which wheels he used for the comparison?

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by BunnV
    The wheels on the Prince are HED Ardennes ($1000), the wheels on the Dogma are Edge Carbon (tubulars?, clinchers?) probably $2500 or more.

    In the write up he said both bikes had the same wheels. Obviously they didn't when he took the pictures. I wonder which wheels he used for the comparison?

    The EDGE's are Clinchers.

    As for what wheels were used during the test... I tested both bikes with identical wheels. The test was as controlled as I could make it. Same course, same bike, groupo, wheels, etc. I switched the wheels from one bike to the other to test.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    72
    That is the best, most objective review of the Dogma versus the Prince. Great job.

  9. #9
    likes shiny bikes
    Reputation: rhauft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,109
    Interesting... I'm a 07 Paris / 09 Prince owner. If you inserted/substituted Paris/Prince for Prince/Dogma you would pretty much have my same opinion of the two. The difference is in degrees. When I'm on my Paris I always wonder why they would consider improving such a perfect bike. Then I jump on my Prince a go Hmph! nice! It's subtle and almost intangible but it just feels a couple degrees sweeter. A couple degrees is not enough to get me to "upgrade" to a Dogma. I'll wait until the next generation of Mac friendly digital HD Super Prince SL++ with integrated programable active transmission... with OnStar
    2012 Pinarello Dogma2 / SR11ti
    2010 Specialized SL3 S-Works / Red
    2008 Orbea Ordu TT / Red
    2000 Pinarello Prince Team Banesto R10
    1997 Pinarello Vuelta Team Banesto / R10
    1994 Pinarello Stelvio / C-R8
    1989 Pinarello Montello / C-R6

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    966
    Would have been nice to also read some cycling specific comparisons such as climbing, decsending, sprinting etc rather than just feel of the bike - I did however find it interesting that the new stronger 60k carbon was actually smoother to ride as I would have expected the bike to be a stiffer ride and therefore perform better in a sprint or climb while expecting it not to perform so well in fast descents or comfort due to lack of "give".
    A writer cannot serve today those who make history, he must serve those who are subject to it - history's victims ..... Albert Camus

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    How about another comparison test!

    Quote Originally Posted by iridepinarello
    I have finally finished the review of my the DOGMA 60.1 versus the PRINCE. To see the complete review, visit the link below. I will happily answer any other questions.

    Enjoy....

    http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009...lo-prince.html
    iridepinarello,

    I've just purchased, but not yet received, a 2010 Dogma 60.1. I had been looking at a Colnago EPS, but decided against that bike. I can provide the reason(s) for the switch to Pinarello if anyone is interested...but just a brief justification for the switch. The switch upset some in the Colnago forums, for reasons that are not quite clear to me.

    Anyway, I've not had the opportunity to ride any high-end racing bikes. I'm wondering if you, or perhaps someone else, can write a short comparison between the Dogma 60.1 and some other high end bike. Of course, I have the Dogma 60.1 vs. Colnago EPS in mind. But the Dogma 60.1 vs. ________(fill in the blank) would be helpful. I have recently received a new Lynskey Custom Level 3 titanium frame bike, but winter has hit where I am, so I'm unable to ride that bike for now except on my trainer. Any comparison information for the Dogma 60.1 or any riding experience description would be helpful.

    k.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: CliveDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    305
    I have recently finished doing demo rides on 5 of the new 2010 bikes. One of them the Dogma 60.1 I should be able to shed some light.

    The bikes I have tested so far for 2010 are Eddy Merckx EMX5, BMC Team Machine SLR01, Pinarello FP7, Pinarello FP3. Other bikes I have owned or ridden are Colnago Extreme Power, Colnago Christallo, Look 595, Look 586, Orbea Orca, Orbea Opal, Colnago Titanio, Pinarello Prince, Litespeed Archon, Scott Addict, Blue RC8, Orbea Onix, BMC Road Racer, BMC Pro Machine, Ridley Damocles, Ridley Excaliber, Time Edge.

    The new Dogma is head and shoulders over any of these bikes, I try not to be a "Dogma Beater" but it's just a fact. Smoother, Stiffer, Feels lighter and handles better than any of the listed bikes. Has is the best characteristic of each bike was all brought down to one frame and it's reflected in the price as well.

    I have reviewed most of these bikes on my blog, call me if you want the blow by blow.

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    966
    I think everybody is dying for a top of the range shoot out my list would be;

    Dogma - King 3RS - Power EPS - 595 Ultra - Ridley Noah

    Trek, Specialized, Wilier, Giant, BMC etc should probably be there too but above would be my top 5.

    I hope you get to ride them all side by side one day and give us the mother of all reviews.
    A writer cannot serve today those who make history, he must serve those who are subject to it - history's victims ..... Albert Camus

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    Lot's of High End Bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveDS
    I have recently finished doing demo rides on 5 of the new 2010 bikes. One of them the Dogma 60.1 I should be able to shed some light.

    The bikes I have tested so far for 2010 are Eddy Merckx EMX5, BMC Team Machine SLR01, Pinarello FP7, Pinarello FP3. Other bikes I have owned or ridden are Colnago Extreme Power, Colnago Christallo, Look 595, Look 586, Orbea Orca, Orbea Opal, Colnago Titanio, Pinarello Prince, Litespeed Archon, Scott Addict, Blue RC8, Orbea Onix, BMC Road Racer, BMC Pro Machine, Ridley Damocles, Ridley Excaliber, Time Edge.

    The new Dogma is head and shoulders over any of these bikes, I try not to be a "Dogma Beater" but it's just a fact. Smoother, Stiffer, Feels lighter and handles better than any of the listed bikes. Has is the best characteristic of each bike was all brought down to one frame and it's reflected in the price as well.

    I have reviewed most of these bikes on my blog, call me if you want the blow by blow.
    You've certainly had the opportunity to ride many high-end bikes. I'm new to that level of bike. I've just received a Custom Level 3 Lynskey R330 (not even ridden on the road due to weather conditions where I live) and the 2010 Dogma 60.1, which I'll receive in a couple months (in mid-winter here). So you're perspective is helpful.

    I noted that, in one of Ward Bates's articles, he writes that a Takara was his first real bike. That was my first real bike as well, although mine had bar-end toggle shift levers. I purchased the Takara in a grungy old bike shop in a beat up arae of Buffalo, NY. The Takara was a great bike for the money. It was the bike for me, although I still can't explain why. Foolishly, I used it as a trade-in on the Trek 520. Other than that bike I've owned or still own a Schwinn Paramount, Trek 520, Specialized Allez (carbon fiber), and a Schwinn Circuit. I never managed to buy a high end bike until now, so I have no perspective on those bikes. And the above bikes are all from the late 1980s...things have certainly changed. Can't wait until the 2010 riding season.

    Thanks,
    k.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    966
    Clive - what is your general impression of SRAM RED?
    A writer cannot serve today those who make history, he must serve those who are subject to it - history's victims ..... Albert Camus

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: CliveDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    305
    I think I know how you feel about the older 80's bikes. I had a Viner with suntour superb that my brother bought for me when I was in the military in Africa in 1989. Somewhere in the back of my mind I still think it was the best bike I ever had.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    All pretty much gone

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveDS
    I think I know how you feel about the older 80's bikes. I had a Viner with suntour superb that my brother bought for me when I was in the military in Africa in 1989. Somewhere in the back of my mind I still think it was the best bike I ever had.
    I don't think the Takaras have been made since the early 1980s. I believe mine had Suntour components and Suntour now is mostly gone. I don't recall the Viner name. Things have changed since those days...probably for the better. I googled on "Takara" from time to time. I do get hits, mostly from people wanting to sell an old Takara or looking for parts that will fit their Takara. People don't seem to remember if the Takaras were built in Japan or by craftsman in the U.S.

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    68
    I was living in Africa so never saw them but Suntour was big when I started racing, pity they fell off the map.

    BTW- Anyone see the new Team Sky Dogma?

    Also coming available at the same time a British Federation color Dogma Red/White/Blue. Both will be available in the US in Jan in limited numbers.


  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    Nice color combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by cwdzoot
    I was living in Africa so never saw them but Suntour was big when I started racing, pity they fell off the map.

    BTW- Anyone see the new Team Sky Dogma?

    Also coming available at the same time a British Federation color Dogma Red/White/Blue. Both will be available in the US in Jan in limited numbers.
    On the Team Sky Dogma that is. I need to stop looking at these new colors...I've already ordered my Black/Silver/Red Dogma 60.1.

    Suntour was big in the U.S. in the 1980s and I've read that they were the first to come out with indexed shifting. There was also a Swedish or Swiss company that manufactured a component groups. It was high-end, but pretty obscure. I don't remember their name and don't know if they are around at all any more.

  20. #20

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    178
    how much is it for dogma ??

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    Cost of Pinarello Dogma

    Quote Originally Posted by bianchi77
    how much is it for dogma ??
    The cost of the 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 frame, which is the newest and presumably the best Dogma frame, is $5,499 MSRP. Shop around, vai email, and you might can probably get a better price. Try racycles.com, glorycycles.com, wrenchscience.com and your LBSs.

    The complete bike/build will depend on the components you select. A full Campagnolo Super Record build can easily cost $10,000 and up. For example see the Pinarello factory build at http://www.wrenchscience.com/road/fr...11+Bike+-+2010 . $11,000!

    Wrench Science and other retailers can do the roughly the same build as the factory build a little cheaper and with less wait time for the bike. Of course, you can use lesser components to save some money. But I wouldn't cut back on the quality of the components much. The Dogma frame deserves the best or near best.

    Good luck,
    k.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    107
    Its funny how the type of roads the bike is used/tested on determines the perceptions of the bike. I've just visited Nth Sydney, which has arguably some of the crappest patch-ridden roads known to man. The local Pinarello dealer has a few sales of the Dogma already, and the general vibe is that it is extremely harsh.
    Reading between the lines, I think that for rough chip type roads, the ride of the Dogma is probably better than lower-end models, however the higher modulus carbon makes larger jolts travel through to the rider much more.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: CliveDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    305
    SRAM Red performance is fantastic but it does not give me the same impression as lets say Campy Record or Super Record. On a Dogma somehow it's better to do Campy.

    For the hardcore racer SRAM is the ticket, for the type of riding I do I prefer Campy cause it's so more "solid" not to mention the way it looks and finishes a bike off.

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    224

    Alex: It seems natural...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRandall
    Its funny how the type of roads the bike is used/tested on determines the perceptions of the bike. I've just visited Nth Sydney, which has arguably some of the crappest patch-ridden roads known to man. The local Pinarello dealer has a few sales of the Dogma already, and the general vibe is that it is extremely harsh.
    Reading between the lines, I think that for rough chip type roads, the ride of the Dogma is probably better than lower-end models, however the higher modulus carbon makes larger jolts travel through to the rider much more.
    that the type of road might affect a person's perception of a bike's ride quality. That's assuming that the type of roads that you describe are the only roads available. Of course, the ride qualities of a bike are not really road surface dependent. People's perceptions are. I suppose that, to properly assess the ride quality of a bike one needs to ride the bike on various road surfaces at various speeds. If you're interested in the ride quality of the frame itself, rider weight and the wheelset also make a difference and should be factored in. I've been told by someone in the Colnago forum that the Dogma is best for a criterium, not so good for road racing. That's a puzzling statement, given that I saw the Pinarello Prince/Dogma in the 2009 Giro, the Vuelta, the Milan-San Remo and the world championship road race. An elite pro racer would not put themselves at a competitive disadvantage IMO. In all fairness, the guy who told me this was really upset that I did not buy a Colnago,

    I live in an area, Western New York State (WNY) that has all types of roads types. Some with quite smooth surfaces, others with uneven but not patched surfaces, and some with potholes and many patches. Any of these roads may, at some time have debris from farms fields scattered on them. I've recently received a 2009 Lynskey Custom Level 3 (R330) frame bike and have ordered the 2010 Dogma 60.1. I intend to stay well clear of the really rough, patched roads, as well as those that may have debris scattered about. Due to the cold and snow in my area, I don't really expect to be able to ride outside until April 2010. Until then, I need to get on my trainer with one of my older bikes. I haven't ridden in many years, but I really need something to keep my fitness levels up. The bike technology has changed and my Lynskey is Campy Record, my Dogma Campy Super Record. All my older bikes have Shimano Ultegra or 105 mounted on the down tube. It will be like learning to ride a "10-speed" again.

    When I ordered by Lynskey, I briefly tested a Felt and a Lynskey Custom Level 4. The CL4 was very stiff. I could feel hairline cracks in the pavement that I would not even been aware of if it had not been a rainy summer and the cracks themselves were dark from a tiny amount of water seepage. The road was actually very smooth, but I felt even the tiniest imperfection. Upon return to the shop, I mentioned that to a mechanic. There were two CL4 owners in the shop and they said that my experience with the CL4 was typical. At lower speeds, the CL4 (and probably the CL3 that I bought) will transmit _any_ road imperfection as harshness. But at speed, all that harshness goes away, on the same road or even a rough road. The wonders of a titanium frame. I'm hoping for a similar ride on my Dogma, smooth that is.

    My biggest concern is the structural integrity of the Pinarello frames. I've read way too much about cracked frames. And the warranty is just 2 years.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    966
    Quote Originally Posted by CliveDS
    SRAM Red performance is fantastic but it does not give me the same impression as lets say Campy Record or Super Record. On a Dogma somehow it's better to do Campy.

    For the hardcore racer SRAM is the ticket, for the type of riding I do I prefer Campy cause it's so more "solid" not to mention the way it looks and finishes a bike off.
    I just wanted to know how aware you are of a bike in order to figure out how much weight I should attach to your review of Dogma.

    It is a well known fact that SRAM red suffers from gear change problems which is why many including sponsored SRAM pro teams used shimano cassette and chain (DA7800 not 7900 which has its own problems) throughout the 2009 season - even SRAM has admitted to the problem and say that they have improved it for 2010 edition (funnily enough they didn't say that they resolved or fixed the problem - just that they have improved it) - the Chainset also suffers from some flex to the extent that even a Cat 1 cyclist can feel it compared to Record or DA chainsets.
    A writer cannot serve today those who make history, he must serve those who are subject to it - history's victims ..... Albert Camus

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.