Fake Dogmas will be harder to spot
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  1. #1
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    Fake Dogmas will be harder to spot

    Now that Keen has made the seat tube aero and added a braze on derailluer mount.
    How do these companies get away with blatant forgery?? Why doesn't Pinarello sue?
    GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
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  2. #2
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    This sucks for real Dogma owners myself included. I'm hoping that the fake ones have horrible paint quality as a badge of shame. LOL!

  3. #3
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    Pinarello is aware and is taking legal action.

    Having said that it remains to be seen how successful they will be.

  4. #4
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    I'm kinda pissed, I payed a lot for my Dogma just to have someone make a knock-off of it.

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    Wow - it looks like they have fake Bora Ultra Two's as well - how safe would you feel riding on those

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by spas View Post
    Wow - it looks like they have fake Bora Ultra Two's as well - how safe would you feel riding on those
    Yeah! I forgot to mention those! What about the fake Most bars? I could never tell those from original.
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  8. #8
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    I've never seen any kind of chinese fake that was the same as the original. It might be good enough for some, but it's not the real thing. They copy it because it's a fantastic product. People buy it because they are envious. Just be glad your riding a highly sought out bike that many wish they could have. None of these buyers chose this bike over the pinnarello. Schwinn should be upset, that's who's customer was stolen.

  9. #9
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    wow - just wow...

  10. #10
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    As long as I know my Prince and now my Dogma2 are the real deal, that's all what's important to me!

  11. #11
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    a fake is a fake

    If you pay attention to details you can tell very easily it is a fake, for example:
    1) Chain stays are not the correct shape, these are straight but a read Dogma's have a break in them
    2) The top tube doesn't have the same shape at head tube like a read Dogma, the dogma top tube has a pronounced rib that goes around the head tube
    3) Down tube at the BB are has only one main rib whereas the Dogma frame has 3 ribs in that area
    and so on... there are so many "little" details that gives it up as a fake and not read Dogma frame.

  12. #12
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    What immediately caught my eye on the Keen pictures are the 1) rear brake cable hole in the top tube that is lower down on the side than on my Dogma 60.1, and 2) the two screws holding the front derailleur braze-on versus the four "rivets" on the Dogma.

    There is absolutely no problem with the PinarelloChina.com site, however. One need not look at any of the pictures - just look at the specifications: 1) english BB, 2) standard 1-1/8 headset, 3) even-numbered sizing only, and my personal favorite, 4) Toray T700 carbon, which makes for a fine badminton racket.

    Really no excuse for anyone to get fooled by these two Pinarello cheats.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykol77 View Post
    I'm kinda pissed, I payed a lot for my Dogma just to have someone make a knock-off of it.
    No reason to get pissed off if you bought your real Dogma for the performance rather than the prestige and "look at me" factor.

  14. #14
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    I think its perfectly fine to have bought the Dogma for its looks and prestige. It is a work of fine art as well as a performance machine. I am pissed also that fakes exist.
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  15. #15
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    Why get pissed if you bought a real one? People purchase high-end brand names for a reason (myself included) while there are literally thousands of fakes out there that can be had for much less. I understand being pissed if you paid full price and you got a fake or replica. The people who bought fakes know they have fakes.

    If you own the real deal, well you should feel good about yourself because you obviously thought it was worth what you paid for. If not, you wouldn't have bought it in the first place. I'm not patronizing fakes I've just accepted that they are a fact of economics. In fact I've read stats that say it actually helps the original company gain advertising. Like it or not, it's wrong but it's not going to go away soon when we have other things more important to deal with and combat like world peace and hunger ;-)
    Last edited by config; 11-25-2011 at 11:12 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by config View Post
    The people who bought fakes know they have fakes.
    Not necessarily. There have been some fakes on eBay that were not disclosed as fake. It’s possible that people have unwittingly bought fakes from unscrupulous sellers. I saw a fake on eBay sell for almost $1600.
    Even the counterfeiters don’t ask that much. They list them for “Frame/fork totally price : 828$ USD Free Shipping to Global.” It’s crazy!
    I can't believe how brazen they are. They have a website with a phone number and address- meanwhile they list their product as a “2012 Pinarello Dogma 2 Carbon Road Bike Frame & Fork” WTF????
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  17. #17
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    I will be utterly frank to everyone here. Most of Pinarello buyers do it for the performance, the looks, and the prestige, AND THAT IS OKAY!!! No need to get too idealistic about it. Fakes are ripoffs, there is no changing that. Some people who want to pay 15% of the price for 90% of the looks and the prestige and 20% of the performance, will always entice these guys to keep knocking off the Dogma 2s, the Dogma 3s.

    Hambike's analysis of the distinctions will also serve to help Keen and Yong refine their next gen fakes. In addition, many factories are faking them. Pinarello is the LV of the bike industry right now. The solution? Should be a combination of law and consumer's own behavior. I saw on WW the other day some guy tauting his new Fakgma and everyone jumps to compliment how nice looking it is. Even worse, we have people on forums saying everyone else with a real Dog is f'ing stupid and overpaid $4K (or 3K in the case BunnV spotted).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by elviento View Post
    90% of the looks and the prestige and 20% of the performance
    I honestly would be very curious to read a real-world report from somebody that has ridden both a fake Dogma and a real one. Not claiming the performance is 100% of the real deal, but I doubt it's as low as 20%, either.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    I honestly would be very curious to read a real-world report from somebody that has ridden both a fake Dogma and a real one. Not claiming the performance is 100% of the real deal, but I doubt it's as low as 20%, either.
    Here is just such a guy.....

    Picture 2 shows the fake in the background, real in the foreground. He actually has Lightweights on the fake!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    No reason to get pissed off if you bought your real Dogma for the performance rather than the prestige and "look at me" factor.
    I perfectly understand your point but I also understand that typical guys like me wouldn't ever
    get all the performance out of a frame like a Dogma. I bought the Dogma because I wanted to
    experience "the best" before I get too old to appreciate that fact and also because I wanted to reward myself. I don't know whether it's a valid point or not, but to me these fakes somewhat takes away from the whole "rewarding myself" point.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykol77 View Post
    I perfectly understand your point but I also understand that typical guys like me wouldn't ever
    get all the performance out of a frame like a Dogma. I bought the Dogma because I wanted to
    experience "the best" before I get too old to appreciate that fact and also because I wanted to reward myself. I don't know whether it's a valid point or not, but to me these fakes somewhat takes away from the whole "rewarding myself" point.
    If you wanted to reward yourself with "the best", and feel that a real Pinarello meets this criteria, then your money has been well spent.

    In my mind, there are two camps of consumers that should be upset about the existence of OEM/fake Pinarellos:

    1) Those that bought a Pinarello for the look and to show off. Most of the people they are trying to impress probably couldn't tell a real from a fake, so their money was not well spent.

    2) Those that bought their Pinarello for the performance, but are concerned that the fakes aren't too far off in terms of performance and their skill/ability/fitness wouldn't allow them to discern the differences between the real and the fake in a blind ride (don't try this at home...far too dangerous).

    Both of these groups of people wonder if maybe...just maybe...they would have satisfied their goals by saving several thousand dollars and picking up a fake instead. Just one guy's opinion.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrider View Post
    If you pay attention to details you can tell very easily it is a fake, for example:
    1) Chain stays are not the correct shape, these are straight but a read Dogma's have a break in them
    2) The top tube doesn't have the same shape at head tube like a read Dogma, the dogma top tube has a pronounced rib that goes around the head tube
    3) Down tube at the BB are has only one main rib whereas the Dogma frame has 3 ribs in that area
    and so on... there are so many "little" details that gives it up as a fake and not read Dogma frame.
    I think someone played a joke on you and switched your "D" and "L" keys.

  23. #23
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    I bought a Dogma 2 because it's one of the best frame out there. Also, people think just because you bought such an expensive frame, you must be rich. Not true, it will take a while to save up my money for the frame, but if I want it, this is what I must do. I would never buy any fake products. If I can't afford something, I just won't buy it. I will never buy a fake product and try to hack it off as the real thing. CLASSLESS!!

    Why do people buy fake bike frames? Some people might say, well I'm not rich like some people and I can't afford to buy an Authentic Dogma 2 frame. Well, that's fine, but why buy a fake Dogma 2 frame? Because they want to give the impression the fake Dogma 2 frame is real? Couldn't the person use the money on an Authentic frame from many great bike companies, who makes nice frames at a good price.

    Whenever you're the best, people will always try to make fake products. Rolex, Louis Vuitton, Prada, Pinarello, Colnago etc.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyL88 View Post
    I bought a Dogma 2 because it's one of the best frame out there. Also, people think just because you bought such an expensive frame, you must be rich. Not true, it will take a while to save up my money for the frame, but if I want it, this is what I must do. I would never buy any fake products. If I can't afford something, I just won't buy it. I will never buy a fake product and try to hack it off as the real thing. CLASSLESS!!

    Why do people buy fake bike frames? Some people might say, well I'm not rich like some people and I can't afford to buy an Authentic Dogma 2 frame. Well, that's fine, but why buy a fake Dogma 2 frame? Because they want to give the impression the fake Dogma 2 frame is real? Couldn't the person use the money on an Authentic frame from many great bike companies, who makes nice frames at a good price.

    Whenever you're the best, people will always try to make fake products. Rolex, Louis Vuitton, Prada, Pinarello, Colnago etc.
    well said, my thoughts exactly.

  25. #25
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    So, I saw another Chinarello sell for almost $2000 on eBay and I noticed that the seller used the term "OEM" (original equipment manufacturer) in his title, along with "Pinarello Dogma 60.1" I think adding "OEM" is the sellers sneaky way of disclosing that it is a fake without saying it's a fake. OEM's make products for many different brands. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, it still doesn't make the seller any less of a scum bag.
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