Pinarello FP3 Compared to Prince - Page 2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 45 of 45
  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by shachah7
    Nice looking ride - same colour as my FP3 sbhaut. Its a very nice ride. Do you happen to know how much lighter your mavics are compared to the stock most chall wheels? Please post updated pics as you add new components.

    Enjoy the ride.
    So I have done some upgrading: Here's where I am at currently: SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Look Carbon Cage. It currently weighs in at 16.21 lbs and I have a few more areas to cut.
    Last edited by sbthaut; 03-18-2009 at 08:40 PM.

  2. #27
    Embrace your inner Fred
    Reputation: Snakebitten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    359
    ^^Gorgeous bike SB....I like the upgrades. How do you like the K-Wing? I went with the Plasma on my cheap build along with the same look pedals. I cant see anyone but the most anal racer not loving this bike. Enjoy

  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by sbthaut
    So I have done some upgrading: Here's where I am at currently: SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Look Carbon Cage. It currently weighs in at 16.21 lbs and I have a few more areas to cut.
    Nice looking upgrades mate Do you feel much difference in performance? What length stem is that FSA? Cheers.

  4. #29
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    36
    Where the frame is made matters to me. Is the FP3 made in Taiwan or Italy?

  5. #30
    Is it the future yet?
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,977
    Where the frame is made matters to me. Is the FP3 made in Taiwan or Italy?
    It shouldn't.
    It's made in Taiwan.
    Only the Dogma, Prince and possibly the Paris, are made in Italy.

  6. #31
    likes shiny bikes
    Reputation: rhauft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,109

    not exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by maximum7
    It shouldn't.
    It's made in Taiwan. Only the Dogma, Prince and possibly the Paris, are made in Italy.
    The fact is, no European bike manufacturer produces monocoque carbon fiber frames in Europe, including Colnago & Pinarello. Colnago's monocoque frames are made in China. Only their tube & lug carbon frames are "assembled in Italy". The tubes are Asian C/F.
    Of the 3 frames you mentioned, only the Dogma is 100% "made in Italy"
    All monocoque Pinas including Prince, Paris, FP7, 6,5,3 etc are made of Japanese Torray carbon fiber, laid up in Taiwan, shipped back to Treviso for finish work, paint, graphics, decals. FWIW, they are Italian molds. It's a world economy folks. The Prince & Paris are still the best bikes I've ever ridden regardless of birth place.

  7. #32
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by rhauft
    The fact is, no European bike manufacturer produces monocoque carbon fiber frames in Europe, including Colnago & Pinarello. Colnago's monocoque frames are made in China. Only their tube & lug carbon frames are "assembled in Italy". The tubes are Asian C/F.
    Of the 3 frames you mentioned, only the Dogma is 100% "made in Italy"
    All monocoque Pinas including Prince, Paris, FP7, 6,5,3 etc are made of Japanese Torray carbon fiber, laid up in Taiwan, shipped back to Treviso for finish work, paint, graphics, decals. FWIW, they are Italian molds. It's a world economy folks. The Prince & Paris are still the best bikes I've ever ridden regardless of birth place.
    You are correct sir...

  8. #33
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    80
    90mm Stem and the bike feels so much more responsive and snappy off the line, not to mention I feel much more comfortable on the shorter stem. I may step into a nicer wheelset sometime later in the season but its hard to find any complaints as is!

  9. #34
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    36

    Disappointing

    I am disappointed to learn that the Prince is laid up in Taiwan. I didn't mind that they got the carbon fiber from Japan, but it is the actual making of the frame that I care about. I would personally rather have a bike that didn't perform quite as well, but was hand made at an artisan shop that has a real passion for bikes than a bike that performed better but was made by folks with no heritage that just wanted a job.

    That concept applies to watches, and watch collectors understand it very well. A Timex will tell better time than a Breguet, but the value of the watch isn't in the accuracy of the time it tells, but in the heritage and way it was built.

    When I bought my Prince I had thought it was made in Italy. Too bad.

  10. #35
    likes shiny bikes
    Reputation: rhauft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by spawn350
    I am disappointed to learn that the Prince is laid up in Taiwan. I didn't mind that they got the carbon fiber from Japan, but it is the actual making of the frame that I care about. I would personally rather have a bike that didn't perform quite as well, but was hand made at an artisan shop that has a real passion for bikes than a bike that performed better but was made by folks with no heritage that just wanted a job.

    That concept applies to watches, and watch collectors understand it very well. A Timex will tell better time than a Breguet, but the value of the watch isn't in the accuracy of the time it tells, but in the heritage and way it was built.

    When I bought my Prince I had thought it was made in Italy. Too bad.
    Steel is real, and you can still find very nice examples made in Italy. But if you're looking for a state of the art monocoque carbon fiber frame,
    Not so much.

    If you research, you'll discover that state of the art monocoque carbon fiber technology is not coming out of europe. Asia is the epicenter in c/f engineering. In order for any of the traditional european "artison shops" like Pinarello, Colnago, Willier, Fondriest, Bianchi, Orbea, Look, Time etc. they will have to partner with an Asian contractor. The best carbon fiber is made in Japan by Torayca and laid up in Taiwan by Pinarello (and its partners).

  11. #36
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    36
    You mentioned something that I wanted to address: Look bikes. Doesn't Look make all their own carbon frames, which are supposedly pretty good?

    How about Parlee/Edge - aren't those bikes pretty much the best you can stick your behind on?

    Why is China supposedly leading the way in CF technology?

    It's funny, I have had a bunch of US titanium and carbon bikes, but wanted an Italian carbon bike. Oh well.

  12. #37
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,078
    Quote Originally Posted by rhauft
    Steel is real, and you can still find very nice examples made in Italy. But if you're looking for a state of the art monocoque carbon fiber frame,
    Not so much.

    If you research, you'll discover that state of the art monocoque carbon fiber technology is not coming out of europe. Asia is the epicenter in c/f engineering. In order for any of the traditional european "artison shops" like Pinarello, Colnago, Willier, Fondriest, Bianchi, Orbea, Look, Time etc. they will have to partner with an Asian contractor. The best carbon fiber is made in Japan by Torayca and laid up in Taiwan by Pinarello (and its partners).
    That is predicated on the notion that the best cabon fibre frames are monocoque.

    LOOK makes their frames in their own factory in Tunisia and finishes them at their facility in France.

    Time weaves their own carbon then uses that to make their frames in France.

    Both company's top of the line offerings are tube and lug construction and are ar least as good if not better than any monocoque frames.

  13. #38
    likes shiny bikes
    Reputation: rhauft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by spawn350
    You mentioned something that I wanted to address: Look bikes. Doesn't Look make all their own carbon frames, which are supposedly pretty good?

    How about Parlee/Edge - aren't those bikes pretty much the best you can stick your behind on?

    Why is China supposedly leading the way in CF technology?

    It's funny, I have had a bunch of US titanium and carbon bikes, but wanted an Italian carbon bike. Oh well.
    Look, Time and Parlee are all excellent brands but none of them are monochoque construction = 1 piece mold. They are tube & lug, then bonded together. This process enables them to purchase their carbon from outside contractors and build them "in house". This is how Colnago constructs their high end carbon also. This is no different than how steel & alloy bikes are manufactured, purchasing Columbus, Dedecici, Reynolds etc. tubes and building them to spec. Only the materials have changed. As far as I know, the only bike manufacturers that make their own c/f are Trek & Time. I'm sure their are probably others. Name me a builder that smelts their own steel?

    Pinarello chose to partner with Torayaca, arguably the highest grade of c/f available in the world. They wanted access to the state of the art in materials, design & technology. That could not be achieved in house. Pinarello has always used outside contractors to achieve their goal of a state of the art design. They are more of a design studio than a traditional manufacturer. If that doesn't suite your fancy then their are plenty of other choices to suite your needs. For me, there is only one choice - Pinarello

  14. #39
    likes shiny bikes
    Reputation: rhauft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by ewitz
    That is predicated on the notion that the best cabon fibre frames are monocoque.
    LOOK makes their frames in their own factory in Tunisia and finishes them at their facility in France.
    Time weaves their own carbon then uses that to make their frames in France.
    Both company's top of the line offerings are tube and lug construction and are ar least as good if not better than any monocoque frames.
    Absolutely, if Look, Time, Calfee or Joe's Carbon Boutique & Bicycle Emporium suites your needs and fits you best then all power to you.

    Personally, I've been sold on Pinarello ever since my team visited their shop in Treviso in the late 80's getting fit for new team bikes.
    Since then I have returned to Treviso many times to visit the house of Pinarello. I've sat with Fausto Pinarello over espresso and brain-stormed custom paint schemes & designs for my next dream bike. Decades have passed and dozen's of steel, scandium, magnesium and carbon bikes later, I am still a true believer in the Pinarello brand... where ever it's actually made. YMMV
    Last edited by rhauft; 04-01-2009 at 08:45 AM.

  15. #40
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    482
    I personally prefer monocoque frames better than frames that are made combination of CF tubes bounded to titanium or steel fittings. The transfer of loads from one part of the bike to another are just more responsive.

    I would have to agree that Taiwan is a leader in CF monocoque frames, though not too sure about China. You wouldn't imagine the technology behind in making a monocoque frame. Prepreging the CF with resin is one thing, but having these weaves and weaves of CF specifically cut off to form the shape of the frame without any voids, especially at the seams, is extremely difficult. Also creating the mold for the frame is very time consuming and expensive and needs a lot of engineering behind it. Without experience, the result of a frame coming out of an autoclave would have voids, contamination, etc. Improving processes and technology only comes with years and years of experience in producing CF frames and that's exactly how Taiwan got to where it is today.

    One thing about monoque frames-- the initial cost of creating the tooling and mold are extremely expensive. But after the tooling are in place, the next duplicate builds are just a fraction of the initial cost. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial mold and tooling for the prince to be upwards of at least $200,000, this including all the engineering design/analysis cost to create the mold. The design and analysis of the actual frame might be quite more. From what I read, the Prince took 3 years of design and simulation with CAD and FEA softwares to create the optimum frame with one of the strongest carbon fiber in the world. I'm not advertising for Pinarello. I personally prefer a titanium frame myself.

  16. #41
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjm36m3
    I personally prefer monocoque frames better than frames that are made combination of CF tubes bounded to titanium or steel fittings. The transfer of loads from one part of the bike to another are just more responsive.

    I would have to agree that Taiwan is a leader in CF monocoque frames, though not too sure about China. You wouldn't imagine the technology behind in making a monocoque frame. Prepreging the CF with resin is one thing, but having these weaves and weaves of CF specifically cut off to form the shape of the frame without any voids, especially at the seams, is extremely difficult. Also creating the mold for the frame is very time consuming and expensive and needs a lot of engineering behind it. Without experience, the result of a frame coming out of an autoclave would have voids, contamination, etc. Improving processes and technology only comes with years and years of experience in producing CF frames and that's exactly how Taiwan got to where it is today.

    One thing about monoque frames-- the initial cost of creating the tooling and mold are extremely expensive. But after the tooling are in place, the next duplicate builds are just a fraction of the initial cost. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial mold and tooling for the prince to be upwards of at least $200,000, this including all the engineering design/analysis cost to create the mold. The design and analysis of the actual frame might be quite more. From what I read, the Prince took 3 years of design and simulation with CAD and FEA softwares to create the optimum frame with one of the strongest carbon fiber in the world. I'm not advertising for Pinarello. I personally prefer a titanium frame myself.
    People should really be focussing more on the engineering than place of manufacture. After all a bike is a machine and the better machine will always be the one with more elegant and efficient engineering solutions.

    Couple that with companies with years of experience like pinarello and colnago who know the nuances and properties required to make a great bike, you will stand a good chance of not only getting a well engineered bike but a bike with great character and personality.

    In terms chassis, monocoque has greater potential that tube and lug. The homogeneous structure of a monocoque frame is inherently stiffer and better at transfering loads. Every time you introduce joints - tube and lug - you will add weight to achieve the same strength and stiffness characteristics.

    If you care about country about manufacture then the material should be a metal - steel, titanium and magnesium. As these days taiwan is leading the way in carbon fibre manufacture of bikes.... but not necessarily the engineering which is the more difficult and crucial part.

  17. #42
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    70
    Did you finish lightening the bike mate? Any pics of final build.

    What size is that frame btw? Cheers mate.

  18. #43
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    80
    I added Nokon cables, which were an incredible upgrade for my SRAM Red, but other than that nothing special. The plan is to upgrade the wheelset this spring and I think that will be it for this year. Hoping this fall to pick up a new Dogma... The frame is a 55

  19. #44
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    80

    FP3 vs. Quattro

    Hey guys,

    Quick question for you. I own the 2009 FP3 that is in the pictures above. I rode it for the 2009 season, but in 2010 I was sidelined because of a knee injury. Consequently, I am salivating to get going for 2011 but I am thinking about upgrading to a new ride.

    Question1: Would it be much of an upgrade to get the new Quattro, and if so, would you go with SRAM Force/Rival build or the Campy Athena components?

    Question 2: How much do you think a fair price would be to sell the bike I have above? It is fitted with:Full SRAM Red drive train, FSA K-Wing Handlebar, FSA CSI Stem, TRP 950 SL Brake Set, Ksyrium SL Wheelset, Look KEO Sprint Pedals, FSA K-Force Lite Seat Post, Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbino Pro, Nokon Cables.

    Ball park figures for a 2 year old bike?

  20. #45
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1
    Just purchased an FP Quattro and waiting for it for arrive. I was really close to buying a 2009 FP3 with DuraAce build (a lot because of the paint scheme). However, I caught a glance at the Quattro in the LBS and was intrigued.

    After discussions with the LBS and other online sources, it was pretty consistent from others experiences that there was a noticable difference in ride quality between the two, especially out of the saddle.

    Hope this helps

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.