Do Americans really care that thousands of people are dying in Iraq?
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  1. #1
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    Do Americans really care that thousands of people are dying in Iraq?

    This country is a joke! Who cares if we kill a few thousand A-rabs in the desert? I don't think we really care because it isn't happening here in our backyard.

    If things like " In downtown Washington DC (Baghdad), dozens of gunmen carried out a brazen ambush on a car, pulling out three election officials and executing them on the pavement in the middle of morning traffic." were happening, do you think our reactions would be different?

    Take away someone's cable tv and look out.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    If things like " In downtown Washington DC (Baghdad), dozens of gunmen carried out a brazen ambush on a car, pulling out three election officials and executing them on the pavement in the middle of morning traffic." were happening, do you think our reactions would be different?
    I'm not sure what the reaction (public) would be to the above scenario.
    My question is what do you think it should be?

  3. #3

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    killers?

    Who's doing the killing?

    Yes, we care, that's why we are spending a trillion dollars over there trying to clean the place up.

    You want to go talk the nutcases into stopping the killing?

    Also, how many died under Saddam? Were those the peaceful glory years?

  4. #4
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    I don't recall Colin Powell saying we're going into Iraq to "try to clean the place up" in his address to the UN.

    You're using the very same lame excuse Bush used when they failed to find WMDs. Since the original cause for war was found to be false, Bush had to come up with some excuse to tell the parents of the fallen soldiers why he sent their children to their deaths. In the name of freedom, and democracy, to liberate a people who didn't ask to be liberated...etc. No matter how much perfume you spray on shite, it still smells like shite.

    While Saddam was a very bad man, we didn't go into Iraq to stop the killings that occured in the 80's under Reagan. Although, we did send Rummy to sell him some chemicals while he was butchering his own people.

    Nor did we stop him when he was already defeated in Gulf I, and there was the Shiite uprising... Oh yeah, by the way, that happened under Bush Sr...

    Plain and simple, we're killing thousands of innocent people, and spending a trillion dollars, in Iraq because this president effed up.

    BTW, I never mentioned money in my original post, I only spoke of the loss of human life, you would probably call it "collateral damage."

    The scenario I described happened in Baghdad today. These events are directly linked to our disbanding the Iraqi police and army. Whose fault is that? The Iraqi people, who didn't ask to be liberated? The insurgents, aka freedom fighters??

    It is Rummy's fault. It's Bush's fault!

    If that event happened in DC or Florida there would be hell to pay. These murderous events are happening on a daily basis. This is pissing off the Iraqi people (just like it would piss us off...) very quickly and it's only gonna get worse.

    Bush created this clusterphuck in Iraq. Everyone in "DumbF*ckistan" who voted to (re)elect this man can also blame themselves for endorsing this dumbass!




    Quote Originally Posted by DougSloan
    Who's doing the killing?

    Yes, we care, that's why we are spending a trillion dollars over there trying to clean the place up.

    You want to go talk the nutcases into stopping the killing?

    Also, how many died under Saddam? Were those the peaceful glory years?

  5. #5

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    they don't even care that AMERICANS are dying

    Sure, they care in principle, but unless their kids' swimming coach or somebody gets killed, they don't really give a sh!t. If they did, they'd be marching on the White House with torches over the way the war's being conducted. I thought the administration might lose some traction when Rummie claimed production problems were the reason the Hummvees weren't armored and the company that makes the armor said, "No, hey, we can give you as much as you want tomorrow," but it blew right by. People are morons. Give 'em Monday Night Football and the Simpsons, and you can do anything you want.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstrax
    I'm not sure what the reaction (public) would be to the above scenario.
    My question is what do you think it should be?
    The scenario I described above happened in Baghdad today. These events are directly linked to our disbanding the Iraqi police and army. Whose fault is that? The Iraqi people, who didn't ask to be liberated? The insurgents, aka freedom fighters??

    It is Rummy's fault. It's Bush's fault!

    If that event happened in DC, or Florida, or Ohio, there would be hell to pay. These murderous events are happening on a daily basis. This is pissing off the Iraqi people very quickly, just like it would piss us off, and it's only gonna get worse.

    It's the double standard that an American life somehow carries more value than an uneducated Iraqi, living in the desert, who is going to he11 anyway cause he doesn't worship a Christian God. This is exactly the reason why a large part of the world hates us. While they love our money, they hate our double standards and policies.

    How do you think the American people would react if Iraqi/Iranian/French/N. Korean/Chinese tanks were rolling down main street USA? How do you think American people would react if the archives in DC were looted and the constitution were stollen. That stuff is only a couple hundred years old, imagine how the Iraqis felt when their national ancient historic documents and artifacts were looted? Items that were over thousands of years old. How would we react if our children couldn't go to school, or get to a hospital.

    Out of sight, out of mind. It's a sick double standard that exists in this country.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    This country is a joke! Who cares if we kill a few thousand A-rabs in the desert? I don't think we really care because it isn't happening here in our backyard.

    If things like " In downtown Washington DC (Baghdad), dozens of gunmen carried out a brazen ambush on a car, pulling out three election officials and executing them on the pavement in the middle of morning traffic." were happening, do you think our reactions would be different?

    Take away someone's cable tv and look out.
    The people doing the killing are the same ones who did the killing when Saddam was in power. Nothing new here. You're only outraged now because you can see it on tv and you think it makes us look bad.

  8. #8

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    Personally...

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthman_1
    The people doing the killing are the same ones who did the killing when Saddam was in power. Nothing new here. You're only outraged now because you can see it on tv and you think it makes us look bad.
    Personally, I'm dismayed that we don't hear more about the loss of Iraqi lives over there, because that might make it more polarizing in the USA, but then again, probably not. As most people only care about if US lives are lost in Iraq. Of course, our news coverage only talks about the loss of American lives for the most part. As a side note, they mention that 70 Iraqis were killed, but no loss of American life. It's crazy. Tens of thousands of Iraqis killed, thousands of Americans were killed. It's a gigantic mess over there. Saddam = bad guy, we all knew this. The whole world knew this, but that's not why we allegedly went into Iraq. It was for WMDs. That's what Bush and company said. It is Bush's fault entirely, for trying to pin this whole mess on Iraq, and blaming Iraq for 9/11.

    Has the loss of life exceeded what Saddam did during his reign of power/terror within his own country? I don't know, but I'm betting that it's getting close. And might exceed it later on down the line if they keep going at this rate.

  9. #9

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    Like fireworks on the 4th of July

    There has been so much violence over the decades (centuries) in the middle east that most Americans and the world have become insensitive to the murderous actions that are so prevalent in Iraq, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others. Some of these countries will cut off someoneís hand off they are found drinking alcohol. Many Americans are of the opinion that if we can turn one large Middle Eastern muslim country (i.e., Iraq) into a democracy then the others will follow eventually. Itís called the domino effect. Itís the same strategy that worked so well in South America over the past 25 years to replace the military dictatorships, juntas and communist leaning countries into democratic governments. South America now enjoys peace and tranquility after so many decades of turmoil.

    However, itís not that easy is it? The Middle East is not South America, not by a long shot. South American culture, values and religion were inherited from Europe. The transition to democracy was a natural transition for most South American countries. In contrast, making democracy work in the Middle East is like placing sheep in a corral with lions and expecting them to all get along. I hope it works but GWB is pretty naÔve if he truly believes that the Middle East will turn to democracy any time soon. Although, IMO he truly believes that this is the case.

    I love country music! There is a song by Toby Keith that goes something like this:

    I donít know the difference between Iran and IraqÖ But we are going to light you up like the 4 of JulyÖ

    IMO, this line sums up what most Americans feel about arab casualties in the middle east.

    Moots Vamoots SL - Uber Alles

  10. #10

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    Toby...

    Quote Originally Posted by LiteSpeeder
    There has been so much violence over the decades (centuries) in the middle east that most Americans and the world have become insensitive to the murderous actions that are so prevalent in Iraq, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others. Some of these countries will cut off someoneís hand off they are found drinking alcohol. Many Americans are of the opinion that if we can turn one large Middle Eastern muslim country (i.e., Iraq) into a democracy then the others will follow eventually. Itís called the domino effect. Itís the same strategy that worked so well in South America over the past 25 years to replace the military dictatorships, juntas and communist leaning countries into democratic governments. South America now enjoys peace and tranquility after so many decades of turmoil.

    However, itís not that easy is it? The Middle East is not South America, not by a long shot. South American culture, values and religion were inherited from Europe. The transition to democracy was a natural transition for most South American countries. In contrast, making democracy work in the Middle East is like placing sheep in a corral with lions and expecting them to all get along. I hope it works but GWB is pretty naÔve if he truly believes that the Middle East will turn to democracy any time soon. Although, IMO he truly believes that this is the case.

    I love country music! There is a song by Toby Keith that goes something like this:

    I donít know the difference between Iran and IraqÖ But we are going to light you up like the 4 of JulyÖ

    IMO, this line sums up what most Americans feel about arab casualties in the middle east.

    Toby Keith is a moron IMHO. And before any right wingers start talking about how many liberal morons there are in the entertainment industry, yeah, that's true at times as well.

  11. #11
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    To answer your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    This country is a joke! Who cares if we kill a few thousand A-rabs in the desert? I don't think we really care because it isn't happening here in our backyard.

    If things like " In downtown Washington DC (Baghdad), dozens of gunmen carried out a brazen ambush on a car, pulling out three election officials and executing them on the pavement in the middle of morning traffic." were happening, do you think our reactions would be different?

    Take away someone's cable tv and look out.
    I would say the majority doesn't give a rip.

  12. #12
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    Stealthbrain, that fits the model of the American double standard value of life. We made ourselves look bad when all four reasons for war were found to be false. Worse yet, possible fabrications to meet an agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthman_1
    The people doing the killing are the same ones who did the killing when Saddam was in power. Nothing new here. You're only outraged now because you can see it on tv and you think it makes us look bad.

  13. #13
    Ya, what ATP said...!
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    No. I don't think a majority do so long as they are spoon fed the perception of a "safer America".

    It seems ironic that the mass burials in the North, the ones that Bush is using as "evidence" in the trial against SH, are the same people his father allowed to be slaughtered after Gulf War 1. Also, the groups in Iraq carrying out bombings are the groups that are being kept out of the US controlled elections. What would you do?

  14. #14
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    Don't take credit not due!

    Quote Originally Posted by LiteSpeeder
    ... Itís called the domino effect. Itís the same strategy that worked so well in South America over the past 25 years to replace the military dictatorships, juntas and communist leaning countries into democratic governments. South America now enjoys peace and tranquility after so many decades of turmoil.

    However, itís not that easy is it? The Middle East is not South America, not by a long shot. South American culture, values and religion were inherited from Europe. The transition to democracy was a natural transition for most South American countries.
    Did I miss something? How has US policy turned South American dictatorships into democracies? Remember Nixon and Pinochet? How about the Contras in Nicaragua?

    South Americans evolved into democracies by themselves, sometimes in spite of US policy.

  15. #15
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    forgive me for saying the Truth

    But the US is there because it's a region that is oil producing and the US was not only losing control and influence but believed the world would see through it's smokescreen and lies in order to maintain it's habit for cheap crude oil like a junky would maintain "i'm only selling so I can pay for me own gear". It reasoned that it may cost the US a few thousand lives and much of it's economic stability & respect from other nations but it's evident they are determined to set up another puppet that they control so they can bypass the dealer and support it's habit on their own terms. Amreeka is their because it is protecting and trying to influence the region for it's own benefit and anything else is excretion that comes from a male cow.

    On the point so many Amreeekans like to argue "Saddam killed many Iraqi's and nobody is grateful we stepped in to stop that". Well, to put it bluntly the US is responsible for far more deaths than can be accredited to Saddam. Far more. They put him in power and were the puppeteers pulling the strings by making sure region was one of division, that Iraq and Iran (that is Sunni and Shia) were never to enjoin against the hand that fed them blood lust, were happy to maintain and rally for embargo's against Iraq even when it was very obvious that only the poor, young and sick were the one's to suffer this failed political ploy whilst Saddam built bigger palaces of gold and erected more statues, sat on their hands by accepting the plight of the Kurds because to oust Saddam would mean power could fall into hands they would have no choice of influenciing to their own gain, and then fooled the majority of American's (still to this day as is evident by the recent election) that the reason they had to go to war, kill hundreds of thousands, plunder their banks, send in their own corporations to profit from the melee and mop up the dollars and oil, was because of the mouse that never roared or as we have come to know it through manipulated media and the cute politcal catchphrase "threat of terrorism" and the now ubiquitous WMD baloney - none of which has transpired and there is yet to surface any proof that Amreeekans were at risk from.

    So whilst you may call them "nutcases" and the US motivation is only to "clean the place up" I would argue that the US sent them to the brink of such madness and is there to spill up the mess it made and profit by doing so. The Amreekan public have already shown they really don't care about Iraqi people by accepting what is the biggest snow job ever and are even prepared to accept the loss of it's own sons as something akin to the cost of doing business.

    I am tired of such myopic ignorance and am saddened because I know the blood will keep spilling and this will not only cost the world for quite some time to come will spread further than we care to imagine. By it's own hand the US is inviting the blood to be spilt on it's own soil, those in power now, who led it to happen will absolve themselves if such occurs by claiming "we" knew there was a risk of this happening and flatly deny the numbingly obvious oclaim that the biggest sponsor and propogator of terrorism worldwide is in fact the United States of Amreeka.

    Bush and co. are the ones who are burning the Stars and Stripes. I'm amazed the Iraqi people have managed to cut off their nose to save their face for so long. Well may you sing God Bless America, because to me it appears it will need it to come out of this one with the shirt on it's back. I say the empire is in decline and what it's doing is a last gasp effort to keep the crown from slipping of it's head as the Euro is what the world is banking with and pretty soon China will be the big player sitting at the head of the table. This IS happening and the people of Amreeka will have shot their own foot, which is no surprise to anybody who wear's a towel on their head, and the greater part of the world for that matter. Chicken - Home - Roost.

    Amreeka is a junky. Like all addicts it will ruin everything around them in order to get their fix of oil. A junky lies, hustles, cheats, steals and if given a chance will sell their own children. A habit consumes the user so powerfully that even overdosing is better than coming clean and getting straight. Ultimately a junky could never be called anything else other than selfish ......... if you look at the world today that is plain to see.

    ciao
    I watched him walking in and it was like they say, you know, he kind of glowed. Like a ray of light was around him. A kind of Jesus. - Spirito (interviewing Spirito)

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  16. #16

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    I think that this is inflammatory BS. The "majority of Americans," eh? All you need for a simple majority is just above 50%, and ask a couple Bush voters if they value human life, especially Iraqi life. Maybe I'm being too optomistic here, but I believe that nobody wants a high body count in Iraq. Not the soldiers, because they produce it at their own expense; not their families, because they must bear the cost; and finally not the general population, as each death from the "Mission Accomplished" speech onwards is another reason to hate this way. Nobody likes to hear about another massacre.

    I wasn't for the war, I have family in Iraq now, and I sure as hell think Bush is pushing us down the wrong path in many different areas. But I do rue the deaths of the innocent of both sides and think (hope) any reasonable person (NOT INCLUDING Toby Keith) would do the same.

  17. #17
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    yep

    Quote Originally Posted by DougSloan
    Who's doing the killing?

    Yes, we care, that's why we are spending a trillion dollars over there trying to clean the place up.

    You want to go talk the nutcases into stopping the killing?

    Also, how many died under Saddam? Were those the peaceful glory years?
    it's going well isn't it?

    happy that everything is running to the Bush plan?

    the US approach is we will win their hearts and minds or kill them if they refuse our offering of peace - time to pull head out of sane

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiteSpeeder

    I love country music! There is a song by Toby Keith that goes something like this:

    I donít know the difference between Iran and IraqÖ But we are going to light you up like the 4 of JulyÖ


    I believe you are mixing up your songs and artists. In the song "Angry American" by Toby Keith there is a line about the 4th of July but no reference to Iraq or Iran. That reference is from Alan Jackson's song "Where Were You" written about 9/11.

    Larry

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fogdweller
    No. I don't think a majority do so long as they are spoon fed the perception of a "safer America".

    It seems ironic that the mass burials in the North, the ones that Bush is using as "evidence" in the trial against SH, are the same people his father allowed to be slaughtered after Gulf War 1. Also, the groups in Iraq carrying out bombings are the groups that are being kept out of the US controlled elections. What would you do?
    America may indeed be safer. The terrorists are having a field day in Iraq. What more could a terrorist ask for? A semi-hopitable host population, unlimited weaponry the US didn't sieze when it moved in. They don't need to come into the US anymore to do their dirty work. Plenty of Americans to blow up right there.

    BTW, Saddam gassed the Kurds in Kurdistan in the north. They wanted to break away and form their own country. The Shiites in and around Basra, in the southeast, were the ones daddy Bush abandoned after kicking Saddam out of Kuwait.

  20. #20

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    "ItÔŅĹs the same strategy that worked so well in South America over the past 25 years to replace the military dictatorships, juntas and communist leaning countries into democratic governments. South America now enjoys peace and tranquility after so many decades of turmoil. "

    Venezuela is lead by Hugo "Fidelito" (little Fidel) Chavez, a close friend of Fidel Castro. Only two years ago, he was overthrown in a coup. In September 2003 he refused to travel to the United States to address the United Nations because he received intelligence information that the U.S. government had prepared an assassination attempt against him. A year ago, three million signatures were gathered for a recall referendum to oust him. He's since regained power to become a democratically elected dictator.

    Colombia's still on the edge of civil war.

    I'm not saying South America is worse off with our intervention, but they are far from stable and tranquil.

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