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  1. #26
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, now Trump. The President changes but the song remains the same.

    Everyone of them has used the same tactics, negotiations, concessions, more negotiations. Get China to help, get the UN to help.

    Sure, pile on Trump, it's fun and doesn't hurt anyone but it sure doesn't appear he's any more or less successful than those who came before him.

    But hey, if it gives a few the opportunity to enjoy venting, go for it!

    Every one has used the same tactics, etc.?

    Did Kim meet with those other guys? Was he even in power for Bush 1, or Clinton?

    Which of them alternated between calling him a "great guy" and "little Rocket Man?"

    (OK, Bush 2 called him a "tyrant" and supposedly referred to him as a "pygmy" privately, but that's just one guy, not every guy).

    Bush 2 halted the negotiations that Clinton had started.

    Cf. Donald Trump's Predecessors Did Not Meet With North Korea | Time
    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/w...cnd-korea.html
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Every one has used the same tactics, etc.?

    Did Kim meet with those other guys? Was he even in power for Bush 1, or Clinton?

    Which of them alternated between calling him a "great guy" and "little Rocket Man?"

    (OK, Bush 2 called him a "tyrant" and supposedly referred to him as a "pygmy" privately, but that's just one guy, not every guy).

    Bush 2 halted the negotiations that Clinton had started.

    Cf. Donald Trump's Predecessors Did Not Meet With North Korea | Time
    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/w...cnd-korea.html

    I mean we ALL REMEMBER the Official Commemorative Coins that all Trump's predecessors sold on the White House gift shop prior to meeting Dear Leader, right? I mean who DOESN'T have them?
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, now Trump. The President changes but the song remains the same.

    Everyone of them has used the same tactics, negotiations, concessions, more negotiations. Get China to help, get the UN to help.

    Sure, pile on Trump, it's fun and doesn't hurt anyone but it sure doesn't appear he's any more or less successful than those who came before him.

    But hey, if it gives a few the opportunity to enjoy venting, go for it!
    Not one of them, ecept Trump, bragged that the problem was solved after just one meeting.

    In fact, not one of them ever even met with the guy.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  4. #29
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, now Trump. The President changes but the song remains the same.

    Everyone of them has used the same tactics, negotiations, concessions, more negotiations.
    I remember when Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, & Obama proclaimed that there was no more nuclear threat from North Korea. It was a great day!
    I remember when North Korea continued to expand it's nuclear facilities after Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, & Obama said there was no more Nuclear threat.
    I remember when Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, & Obama suspended military exercises with South Korea in order to kowtow to North Korea.
    I remember when North Korea promised to Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, & Obama that they'd return the remains of soldiers, only to renege on the deal.


    Just kidding. I was speaking metaphorically. None of that crazy $#it ever happened.
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  5. #30
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    Blah, blah, blah. As I said, dump on Trump if you enjoy it, and it appears you do, but it's results that count.

    All who came before allowed N Korea to have nukes And ICBMs, today.

    You could say they did worse than Trump for that reason.

    At least with Trump, the process is more transparent.

  6. #31
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    so, one question to be resolved is who is more a more deranged 'leader' (and that word is used in its loosest possible context) and detrimental to their respective countries, Kim or DT...both are off-the-scale whackjobs with serious personality disorders.

    American democracy will undergo serious degradation while Trump is in office, NK under Kim will simply continue to be a miserable hell-hole.
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  7. #32
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    Ha ha ha, more transparent with Trump. That's funny.

  8. #33
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    No matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd with whataboutism.

    Trump made huge promises, huge concessions, and huge (false claims). Unlike any previous president. An abysmal failure on all fronts. Nothing to show for it but those commerative coins.

  9. #34
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    Ha ha ha, more transparent with Trump. That's funny.
    He'll be showing some more of that transparency next week when he meets with his boss...alone in private.

    And like all Russian meetings, we'll find out more from the Russians than Trump.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    He'll be showing some more of that transparency next week when he meets with his boss...alone in private.

    And like all Russian meetings, we'll find out more from the Russians than Trump.
    Trump will probably invite Russian 'peace-keeping' troops into the US to help with our horrific illegal alien problem...
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    At least with Trump, the process is more transparent.
    Really? What, exactly, did Kim and Trump discuss? Who promised what to who?


    Link to a transcript would be nice.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  12. #37
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Really? What, exactly, did Kim and Trump discuss? Who promised what to who?


    Link to a transcript would be nice.
    It's so transparent... that's why Trump and Kim have totally different stories of what was discussed. That's some darn fine negotiating when no one even knows what was negotiated.

    I think by transparent he means their agreements were written on transparent paper with invisible ink.

  13. #38
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    Trump was hired to shake up the status quo. Which is what he's doing.

    Don't like it? Should have worked harder in Pa, Fla, etc.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Trump was hired to shake up the status quo. Which is what he's doing.

    Don't like it? Should have worked harder in Pa, Fla, etc.
    Yes I recall tRUMP promising to drain the swamp.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  15. #40
    tlg
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    Little did they know, every time Trump would shake something a Russian would fall out. Pretty sure that's not what they voted for. But now theyre stuck with their mistake and must defend and apologize at all costs.

    Trump was hired because he's was the great negotator. And now they must apologize for him after his big negotiation with Kim resulted in nothing but embarrassment... and commemorative coins... and invisible documents. I'd be embarrassed too.
    #RocketMan

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Little did they know, every time Trump would shake something a Russian would fall out. Pretty sure that's not what they voted for. But now theyre stuck with their mistake and must defend and apologize at all costs.

    Trump was hired because he's was the great negotator. And now they must apologize for him after his big negotiation with Kim resulted in nothing but embarrassment... and commemorative coins... and invisible documents. I'd be embarrassed too.
    #RocketMan

    #ThePartyThatBringsHonorAndIntegrityBackToTheWhite House
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Little did they know, every time Trump would shake something a Russian would fall out. Pretty sure that's not what they voted for. But now theyre stuck with their mistake and must defend and apologize at all costs.

    Trump was hired because he's was the great negotator. And now they must apologize for him after his big negotiation with Kim resulted in nothing but embarrassment... and commemorative coins... and invisible documents. I'd be embarrassed too.
    #RocketMan
    Yeah, Obama did much better. Oh, wait, they perfected their nukes and ICBMs under Obama.

    Trump at least realizes the process must include China and S Korea.

  18. #43
    tlg
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    But... Obama!
    Great defense of Trump's failure to negotiate and then lie about denuclearization. Great leadership having to lie about your accomplishments.

  19. #44
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    The Defense Department estimates there are up to 5,300 sets of US service member remains still somewhere in North Korea. A total of 7,697 personnel remain unaccounted for from the Korean War. Some are pilots who were shot down, some are ground troops, others may be those who died in prisoner-of-war camps.

    That's a tall order finding all these remains, packing them up, and shipping them to the USA. You gonna hold their noses in the dirt for stalling on that issue?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    Trump will probably invite Russian 'peace-keeping' troops into the US to help with our horrific illegal alien problem...
    ,,, and Russian "election monitors" to make sure that there is election fraud in 2020...oops, I mean "no election fraud" in 2020...
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    But... Obama!
    Great defense of Trump's failure to negotiate and then lie about denuclearization. Great leadership having to lie about your accomplishments.
    But .. Trump!

    See that's a two way street. We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world of comparisons.

    Did Obama do better than Trump? Don't think so.

    See that's not whataboutism. That's a comparison.

    Liberals, as I recall, were happy to tell everyone how much better Obama was than Bush.

    Basic fairness and honesty requires comparisons to determine success or degrees of success.

    But both the extreme left and the extreme right only deal in black and white, I get that.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    But .. Trump!

    See that's a two way street. We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world of comparisons.

    Did Obama do better than Trump? Don't think so.

    See that's not whataboutism. That's a comparison.

    Liberals, as I recall, were happy to tell everyone how much better Obama was than Bush.

    Basic fairness and honesty requires comparisons to determine success or degrees of success.

    But both the extreme left and the extreme right only deal in black and white, I get that.
    Fairness and honesty cause me to point out that this entire thread was about the Kim/Trump summit and how that is playing out - not about what had happened in the past. The Donald came back from Singapore trumpeting about how he had achieved what no one else has - a de-nuclearized North Korea. This thread is all about how he was played for a fool. Your comparisons are nothing but an attempt to distract from the embarrassment afforded "the great negotiator". That embarrassment is plain for anyone to see, not just the rabid Trump detractors.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  23. #48
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    But .. Trump!

    See that's a two way street. We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world of comparisons.
    Uh yea it's exactly whataboutism. FYI Trump is President. Now.
    Trump had his photo op summit.
    Trump has been played for a fool and continues to be played for a fool by little rocket man.

    None of that is Obamas fault. It's ok if you're fine with Trump being played for a fool. Most Americans are not.

  24. #49
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. As I said, dump on Trump if you enjoy it, and it appears you do, but it's results that count.

    All who came before allowed N Korea to have nukes And ICBMs, today.

    You could say they did worse than Trump for that reason.

    At least with Trump, the process is more transparent.
    ^That's like saying herpes is better than fibromyalgia because the diagnosis is easier.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Trump was hired to shake up the status quo. Which is what he's doing.

    Don't like it? Should have worked harder in Pa, Fla, etc.
    So no matter that the government is entirely dysfunctional in some areas, and totally authoritarian Nazis in others, all is good, because the status quo is being done shook up. Let's start a nuclear war, that'll really shake things up.

    The intelligence of the Trump voter, ladies and gentlemen.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

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