Letter to the Red States
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  1. #1
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    Letter to the Red States

    The following was written by a woman in New York. It's quite long and echoes what most of us in the New York area think and feel about the state of our country.

    Letter To The Red States:

    Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to write this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who are the only "middle country" people I know.)

    I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

    So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

    Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

    Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

    I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same. How
    many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

    I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

    I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for
    their dead loved ones?

    I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois,
    Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

    I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

    I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

    I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case somethng happens while I'm at work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay?

    When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.

    I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.) Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperaton? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

    Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own. I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

    I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

  2. #2
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    I lived in Washington DC during the attacks. While I believe those of us who experienced it in close geographic proximity have a different experience from most of the nation, I still believe it affected all Americans deeply. The author raises some very good points, but I'm concerned that it builds upon the "us versus them" feeling among liberal and conservative areas of the nation.

    Having grown up in the midwest, I think the response from most of America will be astonishment that she works 12 hours a day (which, incidentally adds up to 60 hours a week, not 50). They will react with indignation that she should live more cheaply outside of NYC and work more "sensible" hours. The message will be lost on them once they hit this passage, despite the fact that she is illustrating that she, and others in the financial centers, fund the policies that middle America votes for.

  3. #3

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    To much me,you and us BS. She doesnt know me or how i think.
    Just Ride
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  4. #4
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    Her letter is filled with so many conflicting views. She makes the argument that she believes she pays more in taxes so her view must be worth more. Isn't that what conservatives are always branded with? She doesn't understand or appreciate the idea that the area of the country she says doesn't contribute enough financially may not be able to because of geography and resources, more than the lack of will. I thought it didn't matter how much someone contributed financially to the system. I thought everyone was entitled to a say in our government no matter how much money they had or how much taxes they paid.

    She believes that people that use morality as a measure for the person they believe should hold the highest office in the land are somehow wrong in doing so. Who is she to make that judgment? She says that the "rest of the World hates us and does not support the war". She is wrong. There are other countries who support the war and have lost and continue to lose people fighting it. She seems to care more about what the "rest of the World" thinks more than what her fellow Americans think. She says she lives in fear every day. She blames those who voted for Bush rather than those who would perpetrate the acts she so fears. This woman needs help. She should seek the help of a psychiatrist. Oh, enemy combatants do not have Constitutional rights. They have never given anything to support the Constitution which she believes should protect them. They attacked our Constitution and our rights. She is wrong about that too.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    [size=2]Her letter is filled with so many conflicting views. She makes the argument that she believes she pays more in taxes so her view must be worth more.
    Up here we call them Limousine liberals. Or the beautiful people.

  6. #6
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    She is a liberal elitist - is that redundant I can think of one or two members of this forum hoo are also They think to themselves "I am so smart and successful. Look at all I have. I have this great career. How could I be wrong? How could I been in the minority?"

    Liberals were used to conservatives being silent on what was important to them. They are not used to conservatives being activists for a cause. Things have changed and liberals have not changed with the times. I think part of the transformation of conservatism has to do with liberals that grew up to become conservative. They know how to get loud and down and dirty. They learned that as young liberals. Now they are activist conservatives.

    Just look at what liberals are citing for Kerry's loss and the idea that they were out-voted. They want to believe it's was just religion and morality. The reason cannot be on the issues, because they believe they are never wrong about the issues. They are totally full of themselves. Until they change that mindset, they will continue to be the minority.
    Last edited by Live Steam; 11-07-2004 at 10:01 AM.

  7. #7
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    sorry if we don't bow and scrape and kowtow in order for you to suffer our presence. i thought that was the reason you all think bush is such a man's man; cause he doesn't twist and bend whichever way the political winds blow, but sticks to his principles? and here you've all been this past week, telling us that to be more popular, all we need to do is flip-flop. i am so sick of all you right-wingers telling us that we should abandon our principles, simply because 140,000 more people in ohio voted for bush instead of kerry. 56 million people voted in repudiation of all this president stands for, the most votes against a president ever.

    here's to you, you arrogant, elitest right.

    Am I Blue?
    I apologize for everything I believe in. May I go now?
    Michael Kinsley

    November 7, 2004

    The election campaign made it official. These are the Disunited States. There is "red America": conservative, Republican, religious. And there is "blue America": liberal, Democratic, secular. Everybody's message from the election results is that red America won, and blue America must change or die.

    It's a terrible exaggeration, of course. People have different mixes of values, and states have different mixes of people. More than 50 million, or 44%, of the 115 million citizens who voted for either George W. Bush or John F. Kerry on Tuesday live in states that went for the other guy. These misfits go out in public, mingle with others and often are treated like normal human beings. (For the half-million that voted for Ralph Nader, it may be a different story.)

    A moment of surprising resonance in the campaign was Jon Stewart's Oct. 15 appearance on "Crossfire." Taking just a tad too seriously his recent appointment by acclamation as the Walter Cronkite of our time, Stewart begged the show's hosts to "stop hurting America" with their divisiveness. I used to work on that show, and I still think the robust, even raucous, and ideologically undisguised hammering of politicians on "Crossfire" is more intellectually honest than more decorous shows where journalists either pretend neutrality or pontificate as if somebody had voted them into office.

    Still, recognizing that the mood has changed since 9/11, I have been erratically and unsuccessfully pitching a different approach. CNN is not interested. Nor are the other news networks. If anyone reading this wants it, it's yours. Free. The idea, in a word, "Cease-Fire." You get your politicians or your experts or your interest-group representatives, and instead of poking them with a stick to widen their disagreement, you nudge and bully and cajole them toward some kind of common ground. It sounds goody-goody, I know, but the intention would be more Judge Judy than Bill Moyers.

    At the moment, though, one side of the great divide is being called on for something closer to abjection than mere reconciliation.

    So yes, OK, fine. I'm a terrible person barely a person at all, really, and certainly not a real American because I voted for the losing candidate on Tuesday. If you insist and you do I will rethink my fundamental beliefs from scratch because they are shared by only 47% of the electorate.

    And please let me, or any other liberal, know if there is anything else we can do to abase ourselves. Abandon our core values? Pander to yours? Not a problem. Happy to do it. Anything, anything at all, to stop this shower of helpful advice.

    There's just one little request I have. If it's not too much trouble, of course. Call me profoundly misguided if you want. Call me immoral if you must. But could you please stop calling me arrogant and elitist?

    I mean, look at it this way. (If you don't mind, that is.) It's true that people on my side of the divide want to live in a society where women are free to choose and where gay relationships have civil equality with straight ones. And you want to live in a society where the opposite is true. These are some of those conflicting values everyone is talking about. But at least my values as deplorable as I'm sure they are don't involve any direct imposition on you. We don't want to force you to have an abortion or to marry someone of the same sex, whereas you do want to close out those possibilities for us. Which is more arrogant?

    We on my side of the great divide don't, for the most part, believe that our values are direct orders from God. We don't claim that they are immutable and beyond argument. We are, if anything, crippled by reason and open-mindedness, by a desire to persuade rather than insist. Which philosophy is more elitist? Which is more contemptuous of people who disagree?


    As many conservative voices have noted, American society suffers from a cult of grievance. To put it crudely, everyone wants some of the things blacks got from the civil rights movement: sympathy, publicity, occasional preferential treatment and a general ability to put everybody else on the defensive. No doubt liberals are responsible for this deplorable situation, and I apologize. Again. As a softheaded liberal, I even like the idea that our competitive culture has a built-in consolation prize.

    But be fair! (A liberal whine, I know. Sorry.) Conservatives shouldn't assert the prerogatives of victory and then claim the compensations of defeat as well. You can't oppress us and simultaneously complain that we are oppressing you.

    Well, of course you can do this, if you want. Who's to stop you? I just kinda wish you wouldn't. If you don't mind my asking. Thanks. Sorry.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus
    56 million people voted in repudiation of all this president stands for, the most votes against a president ever.
    59,459,765 million people voted against his challenger. More than any candidate or president from any party in any year.

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    wow. you're kidding me, right?

    the point is, when 56 million also vote against you, that doesn't mean that you have the overwhelming support of the country at your back. no matter how much you talk, and the SCLM media parrot your talk, of "having a mandate".

    you don't have a mandate. you have a bare majority of the people who voted.

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    that post was almost too stupid to reply to. but.....

    yeah, bill clinton getting a hummer is the reason kids do it. that's a good one. are you really that ignnorant, or do you just play dumb on internet message boards? ladies and gentlemen, your bush voter.

    at least no one died when clinton lied about a blow job.

  11. #11
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    And who got the second most in history?

    Quote Originally Posted by firstrax
    59,459,765 million people voted against his challenger. More than any candidate or president from any party in any year.
    Kerry, that's the candidate for president who got the second most votes in history. Something to keep in mind when you throw around raw vote totals.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

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    Yeah, this post is stupid. But I do want to take up one point:

    "...dumbing down our moral fabric."

    From now on, you are not allowed to make metaphors or use personification because they probably will, much like this one, make no sense. How do you make cloth stupid? Even if you made the Shoud of Turin watch a Beavis and Butt-Head marathon, I don't think it would come out with a lower IQ. Say this: "...staining our moral fabric." That way, you get another dig in about Clinton, and your writing will be a little less retarded that it currently is.

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    Hey bigring, they will never get it! The Romans didn't get it until they were lost in their decadence. and didn't know how to turn back.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    Hey bigring, they will never get it! The Romans didn't get it until they were lost in their decadence. and didn't know how to turn back.

    So, tell us Steam, what is it we will never get? The persecution of a President's personal life for political agenda??? Not one charge, other than lyin' about a stain on a blue dress, after $44 million was spent investigating the Clinton's.

    Who really cares if Bubba got a hummer while he talked with the Senate majority leader? Monica was doing her civic duty, servicing the president when we all know Hillary wasn't. Monica should've gotten the Congressional Medal of Honor. She took one for the country!

    Wasn't it more about how the right couldn't stand the fact that a Democrat in the Oval Office was responsible for the best economy this country ever saw?

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    All I can say is...

    Kerry won the youthful vote by a landslide. Was it 59%? He's young enough to run again in four years, and he could very well win next round. Who can the Repubs put up? Pat Robertson? Colin Powell might have done it, but they've alienated him too much.

    The Democratic Party has been since the Thirties the often contentious melding together of labor union leaders, the poor, immigrants, the discriminated against, and intellectuals from the universities and big cities. The Dems are of the people. They celebrate diversity and are often argumentative.

    In contrast, the Republicans demand a high degree of conformity and acceptance of authority and the status quo. That's what the middle class and the elite want. They're already set up and want the wealth to continue to flow in. Rich Repubs are about money. Poor Repubs about patriotism, fear of the outside, fear of "liberal ideas", desire for authority, whether religious, military or political.

    Its quite natural they would be suspicious of any workaholic, female lawyer from New Yawk telling them what to think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico
    The Dems are of the people.
    Thats a great line. 48% of the vote makes a dem a "Man Of The People".
    51% of the vote makes a repub a ..... um....well......."A man who got 48% of the vote against him, A man of the stupid, Yeah, thats it. A man of the people who's votes should not count as much as ours".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico
    Kerry won the youthful vote by a landslide. Was it 59%? He's young enough to run again in four years, and he could very well win next round. Who can the Repubs put up? Pat Robertson? Colin Powell might have done it, but they've alienated him too much.

    The Democratic Party has been since the Thirties the often contentious melding together of labor union leaders, the poor, immigrants, the discriminated against, and intellectuals from the universities and big cities. The Dems are of the people. They celebrate diversity and are often argumentative.

    In contrast, the Republicans demand a high degree of conformity and acceptance of authority and the status quo. That's what the middle class and the elite want. They're already set up and want the wealth to continue to flow in. Rich Repubs are about money. Poor Repubs about patriotism, fear of the outside, fear of "liberal ideas", desire for authority, whether religious, military or political.

    Its quite natural they would be suspicious of any workaholic, female lawyer from New Yawk telling them what to think.
    Fred, It will be the man who should've been president these past 4 years, John McCain.

  18. #18
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    The author has some valid points.

    While I am surprised and disappointed that we will endure four more years of GW, I can see how it happened.

    Kerry presented concern and offered the possibility that we ought to play the world in a more diplomatic fashion. This, along with his acknowledgment for womens reproductive rights and a more tolerant view of gay union doomed him for being, well-- tolerant and trying to retain rights of people within our society.

    As we know, the Bush faction seeks to take away rights, and plays the balance of the world stage as if the only reason for their existence is to serve our own interests. This lack of regard for others plays further into the Us vs Them mentality that is so valued in creating the nationalistic fervor needed to sustain this Bush administration. I have to admit, they played it very well.

    A reference above to the fall of the Roman empire is interesting. It could merit a whole topic line and more.

    cheezes I wish we could have pulled it off and thrown the bum out......

  19. #19

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    Hey Spyderman, you lost! Get over it and stop your crying.

    Here's an option you might consider:
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=519&ncid=716

  20. #20
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    thank God there's people like her left in the US of A

    That's about the only thing from that has made sense to me within the last year and certainly the last week. Truth and lots of it. Poignant as well .... the sky that day was without a cloud and perfectly blue.

    I feel her anger and support her rightful claims. Sadly, it's well evident that with the voicing of majority support for Bush, the US is losing the war on terror. Whass that? Yes, if the US continues it course it will become undone as a global player politically and will also lose it's hold as the economic juggernaut is has long become accustomed to. Everything that I have seen from the land of the American Dream has played right into the hands of a few towel headed Lee Harvey Oswald's and its beyond comprehension, incredulous, at how ignorant, dumb and out of touch the majority of americans really are.

    I once thought that an era of evil had encroached the White House and that Bush and his cronies had slipped through as imposters pretending to hold the interests of the american people whilst doing everything possible to bring them to pain and ruin and to disenfranchise the sentiment of the free thinking world against them. After 9/11 the world was deep in sympathy for America yet now the world is all but rooting for those who burn the stars and stripes. If America was a stock on Wall St. it would you buy it? To be truthfull, when seeing what transpired, how it was handled and what steps were chosen it amazes me that Bush now has another 4 years when I would have thought he would have been assasinated by now. If there is a group who is trying to acheive the latter please let me know their PayPal account.

    I also think the Dem's losing is in a kind of way .... a victory. They played fair, were honest and had genuine intentions of doing the right thing by it's people and the world at large. That's sure to be a losing team and political sabotage in a nation where lies and facade and make believe where born. A prozac nation of fat, bigoted, lazy polluters with every addiction under the sun, the home of self-help books and eternal salvation at hand for $9.99 + p&h, voted for the most ignorant, dumb and licentious party/puppet with dollars to burn ..... no suprises there. Contols both houses .... of course they do. America has never been for world peace, America has never been for equality amongst all people, America has never been anything except of the interest of itself and the privy few who control her even to the detriment of it's own ....... War = $'s. Someone should unhook the statue of liberty and float it away into the ocean because even amongst it's own people it's evident that there is no such principle in America. The vote for Bush marks that with an exclamation point.

    My only pain is for my good friends back in NYC and there are so many of them. The way they express the sentiment is that they are stuck not only in a country that seems to be doing it's utmost to bring itself to ruin but also taking every opportunity to implode itself with the foundation that brought her up - greed. A good friend from Harlem reminded me that America didn't just become evil in the last few years since 9/11, it's always been that way and it's just recently that it's 'mask' slipped. It has always been a nation with ill fated ideals and principles all along. Reap what you sow, baby.

    The Bush goverment all but flew into them towers that day in September and the myths, hysteria and chaos caused since seem to be deliberate, calculated & contra to the wishes of sane and reasoned thought from the rest of the World. This is the 3rd World War yet few are sane to realize that it's a lot different to what many of us expected it to look like. War is a grab for land, power and money and right now them sands where camels where once upon a time more important than cadillacs is pretty much the prize for who controls the world for the next 50 years and beyond.

    And for you no class, myopic wetbacks with new user ID's who post gloatingly on the political forum where once you never existed - you won the election but you have assured the loss of your country. Well may you sing God Bless America, becuase your votes have all but sunk her in the grave. Gobble that Turkey's.

    ciao
    I watched him walking in and it was like they say, you know, he kind of glowed. Like a ray of light was around him. A kind of Jesus. - Spirito (interviewing Spirito)

    http://instagram.com/ciclispirito



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    Hey your not sounding too much like a lib. What happened? Old reflexes kickin' in?

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    Clueless

    Steam already pointed out the inconsistency in her letter. For my two cents, it's another great example of why we live in a nation divided. She didn't want to introduce herself, she wanted to explain herself....explain why she can't understand how dumb the rest of America is. Her view is the minority, not the majority (Sorry Dr. Hoo...second place is just that, and lets not look past the pasting the blues took in Congress).

    This is a battle for the heart and soul of America. It's not just about GWB, the war or the deficit. It's about the core beliefs of what America is. And at the end of the day, the majority of Americans are pro-faith, anti-abortion, pro-family, and highly suspiscious of any slick double-talkers from Mass. telling them he would be a great presdent.

    The tribe has spoken....the Dems have been voted off the island. AMEN!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dctrofspin
    Steam already pointed out the inconsistency in her letter. For my two cents, it's another great example of why we live in a nation divided. She didn't want to introduce herself, she wanted to explain herself....explain why she can't understand how dumb the rest of America is. Her view is the minority, not the majority (Sorry Dr. Hoo...second place is just that, and lets not look past the pasting the blues took in Congress).

    This is a battle for the heart and soul of America. It's not just about GWB, the war or the deficit. It's about the core beliefs of what America is. And at the end of the day, the majority of Americans are pro-faith, anti-abortion, pro-family, and highly suspiscious of any slick double-talkers from Mass. telling them he would be a great presdent.

    The tribe has spoken....the Dems have been voted off the island. AMEN!
    Mandate my ass! GWB won because he convinced Americans who disagree with him on issues like abortion that he's the better man to fight the war on terror. Kerry did a poor job convincing the American people otherwise.

    If this is a battle for the heart and soul of America, the war is far from over. GWB won by the smallest margin of victory of any incumbent since 1918. He won by the smallest margin in American history ever for an incumbent wartime president. The Repubs don't have a decisive majority in Congress either.
    Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    --John Stuart Mill

  24. #24
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    I didn't use the M-word. I used the facts. The facts are that most of America does not have the same elitist, condesening views of the letter writer in the original post. I live in DC, but was raised in the mid-west. Most of our family is in Nebraska. The difference in basic world views between my liberal friends on the coast and how folks back home see things is stark. The problem for the Dems is that they're too arogant and intolerant to figure out what those people think. Instead, they want to tell them what to think. That slight variation in approach is why your team lost. And let me tell you...just keep on keepin' on here....the reaction from the left is exactly what we need to keep the reds in control for the future. It's almost funny to watch.

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    Steam, have you guys been recruiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigring867
    Ok lets see how many tired and true Democrat code words weve exchanged here...."IGNORANT"...."DUMB"...."STUPID"....".NO ONE DIED WHEN...."

    Im not an expert in political science but I think age and experience has to account for something.(Not admitting Im an old dude but--it simply means I first voted for a Pres when Clinton was dodging the Draft and demonstrating against American Policy while attending Oxford.) ;)

    Our former Presidents frolic in the White House is NOT the REASON the kids are doing it. When Clinton parsed his words he makes it OK to do it. He puts the Presidential Stamp of Appoval on it. Duh....thats hard to understand now isnt it? How much simplier an explaination do you need. So I have to surmise from your flippant (sp)? attitude that Its ok for your man to do those things in the oval office....its ok to desicrate (sp)? the Presidency? Clinton killed your parties creditability. wHY CANT Clinton return to his home state? No one can explain that one.

    I guess you forgot about our US Rangers corpses being dragged thru the streets of Mogodeshu (sp)? With not a parsed word from our Commander and Sneak. Or Clinton bombing a Pill factory to devert his little problem with the stained dress. Face the music you guys lost because you DONT have an agenda the majority of the country can stomach. Dems have lost the trust of the majority.

    Lets review : some facts

    Clinton Parses his words to cover his lies.
    Clinton leaves a living legacy of deceit and deception.
    Clinton shows no courage no leadership as Commander in Chief- when our boys burnt corpes are dragged through open streets of a hostile country.
    Clinton cant go home.
    Bush 2 ----CBS zero

    Backround: Oh I forgot to mention I was still serving in the US Military when JOhn Kerry decided to make his move for the White House back in 1971.

    WE WILL NEVER FORGET ---WHAT joNH kERRY did for the Enemy that we were still engaged against. We will always remember he did this for his own political future. And this has nothing to do with the swift boats. I dont care what he did in country while in Nam. He was just another troop. A short serving trooper non the less. Kerry has to be one of only a few military personnel serving in Viet Nam that was able to get (3) three PH's in four months....would like to see the stats on that one...wonder why CBS didnt look into that factoid? I guess they were too busy shuffeling forged documents.....

    Go figure I voted for George McGovern cause i thought Nixon was a crook...was right about that one too.....what long strange trip its been.

    PEACE.... and dont try to blast me on my spelling cause it sucks!
    Wait, I'll make this a new thread ...

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