Local News Outlets Openly Reffered To Them As A "Hate Group"
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  1. #1
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    Local News Outlets Openly Reffered To Them As A "Hate Group"

    https://www.wdtn.com/news/local-news...lly/1846094235

    Local government is headed down the proverbial slippery slope with the help of media that predisposes what will happen...

    I was clueless about this group until I was bombarded with their specs at every news opportunity!!!

    Their (local guvment) arguments, which may have some validity, could have (were) applied to Civil Rights marchers 5 decades ago!!!! WTF?

    City Commissioners asked the legal department and police to look into the behavior. The law director said they believe the group is planning a "militaristic show of force."
    Course, this is an open carry State (with permit) so it is possible that if enuff folks showed up Courthouse Square, they could be deemed "militaristic".

    Liberty is that fickle beotch. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    They claim it’s not about the speech or the 2nd Amendment, but that’s exactly what it’s about. They KNOW the group is going to speak and have weapons, but they are only guessing that anything else is going to happen.

    My guess is if they have the rally and win the leftists will show up and cause trouble. And yes, it will be the leftists causing the trouble, just like in Charlottesville.


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  3. #3
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    Blah blah blah, they haven't killed anyone yet so what's the harm in letting them organize, fully armed & chanting "the Jews will not replace us"?

  4. #4
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    Some disturbing aspects come from the general makeup of a relatively diverse and liberal city government. Also, many civic leaders recruited for the cause have first hand experience of similar tactics used on them!

    As mentioned, most news outlets continue to call these people a "hate group" which while subjectively true, should be left to the individual to determine. Each year, we have several separate multi-cultural festivals. Should this same approach be used because the Irish will get piss drunk in the streets or the Hispanics are too lazy to clean up afterwards or the Blacks are just too damn shiftless??

    A few years ago, another group with KKK ties announced a rally at the same locale... about 20 members of the group showed up. They were effectively outnumbered by news agencies covering the event!

    Granted, in the MAGA age, some people have been emboldened but I still believe the answer to people and groups such as these is let them speak and remove all doubt. The truths from the Civil Rights era were in the deeds AND the words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    https://www.wdtn.com/news/local-news...lly/1846094235

    Local government is headed down the proverbial slippery slope with the help of media that predisposes what will happen...

    I was clueless about this group until I was bombarded with their specs at every news opportunity!!!

    Their (local guvment) arguments, which may have some validity, could have (were) applied to Civil Rights marchers 5 decades ago!!!! WTF?



    Course, this is an open carry State (with permit) so it is possible that if enuff folks showed up Courthouse Square, they could be deemed "militaristic".

    Liberty is that fickle beotch. Thoughts?
    Barbara Doseck, the Dayton Law Director explained, "This is not an attempt to stop the speech, this is not an attempt to hinder their second amendment rights. It comes down to stopping a paramilitary organization and stopping them from being or creating a public nuisance."

    The mayor also called for unity from groups opposing the planned protest.

    She said, "The intention of this hate group is to divide us. But I have full faith that our community will stand up to them with one united voice."

    The City also announced a public forum to discuss the community's response to the rally. It will take place on Wednesday, March 20, at 7 p.m., at Grace United Methodist Church, 1001 Harvard Blvd.


    If Doseck means what she says, in addition to meeting in the church, the public should allow the demonstrators to gather in front of the court house, and ask them to explain why they're demonstrating. The TV media should interview their leaders. Let them hang themselves by their lies. And then, ignore them.

    No counter protesting. No fighting. It would be a morally uplifting experience to the community at large, the perfect remedy against "division." Refusing them their right to demonstrate or carry guns only confirms their outlaw beliefs and makes them stronger. They'd fire their weapons only if attacked. The police would make sure that doesn't happen.

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    Let them march and encourage the local citizenry to plead the 2nd. KKK is tyranny right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    It's full of factual errors. :nono:

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    They claim it’s not about the speech or the 2nd Amendment, but that’s exactly what it’s about. They KNOW the group is going to speak and have weapons, but they are only guessing that anything else is going to happen.

    My guess is if they have the rally and win the leftists will show up and cause trouble. And yes, it will be the leftists causing the trouble, just like in Charlottesville.


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    From the article:

    "Barbara Doseck, the Dayton Law Director explained, 'This is not an attempt to stop the speech, this is not an attempt to hinder their second amendment rights. It comes down to stopping a paramilitary organization and stopping them from being or creating a public nuisance.'" [emphasis added for clarity]

    She does not share your opinion that racists from Indiana have the right to go to Ohio to parade around in public, fully strapped and trolling, because of Ohio's laws* against it.

    Also,

    "The city says that rally would not only be a public nuisance but also potentially dangerous. It points to evidence on the organization's social media pages as evidence of a 'paramilitary' group to supports the claims."

    So there is that, the words of this "paramilitary" group of racist nutjobs.

    One also must question the intentions of a group that would attempt to file under fictitious names:

    https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...g21x3WOlaw8WJ/

    The sorry truth of this stunt is that Daytonians will have to pony up for a security detail while a bunch of throwbacks stomp around espousing "White Power!" and trying to Constitutionally fig-leaf their disgusting behavior.


    *Ms. Doseck used the term "public nuisance," but "inducement of panic" would be the more likely charge, as "public nuisance" laws in Ohio are usually directed at vice crimes (cf. Lawriter - ORC - 2917.31 Inducing panic.)
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    My guess is if they have the rally and win the leftists will show up and cause trouble. And yes, it will be the leftists causing the trouble, just like in Charlottesville.
    Huh? It's wasn't the "leftists" who killed someone in Charlottesville.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    No counter protesting.
    So you would allow the hate protest, but not the counter protest? Sounds very one sided of you, Fred.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post

    The sorry truth of this stunt is that Daytonians will have to pony up for a security detail while a bunch of throwbacks stomp around espousing "White Power!" and trying to Constitutionally fig-leaf their disgusting behavior.
    I wonder if the city's zeal to respond is more a knee jerk to a reporter asking some "look into your crystal ball and give me an answer ON THE RECORD" questions? It feels as if an affirmation against the group was "provoked" by reporters citing past incidents (from this and other groups). Many in politics today want to be seen as preventing fires as opposed to putting out fires.


    Again, 2016 opens one's perceptions about your fellow citizens but I gotta go with most folks recognizing the fig leaf and the shriveled mess behind it without the city poking it with a stick!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Huh? It's wasn't the "leftists" who killed someone in Charlottesville.



    So you would allow the hate protest, but not the counter protest? Sounds very one sided of you, Fred.
    We should no longer be surprised to find that obvious racists post here on RBR. Like so many like them the need to use dog whistles ended when Trump took office and told them to racist the day away to their heart's content.
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  11. #11
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    Will the ACLU litigate in favor of the demonstrators like they did for NSPA v. Skokie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremerradkurier View Post
    Will the ACLU litigate in favor of the demonstrators like they did for NSPA v. Skokie?
    Skokie was about protecting the right of free speech, even for racist, hateful speech.

    Does free speech also include the right to intimidate others by showing force and announcing their readiness to use violence?

    My hunch is the ACLU will say there is no right to threaten anyone.

  13. #13
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    Regardless of how despicable the KKK is, it's their right to rally. If a counter protest shows up, and trouble occurs, then arrest and prosecute everyone and anyone causing the trouble.
    You can't fix stupid.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post

    My guess is if they have the rally and win the leftists will show up and cause trouble. And yes, it will be the leftists causing the trouble, just like in Charlottesville.


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    Super Troll or completely ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hfc View Post
    Super Troll or completely ignorant.
    Or both.
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  16. #16
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    If Trump ever comes here, (he's used Wright-Patt AFB to come to the area to reach MAGAland but sees this city as too liberal and too minority) I'm gonna vocally remind them that he is a one man Hate Group and insist on similar measures!!

  17. #17
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Huh? It's wasn't the "leftists" who killed someone in Charlottesville.



    So you would allow the hate protest, but not the counter protest? Sounds very one sided of you, Fred.
    Yeah but it wasn’t their rally. They could have stayed home but chose not to. It was their presence, their desire to disrupt a previously planned demonstration, that caused the conflict.

    No Antifa, no conflict. Period.


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    Both.....definitely both.

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    "No Antifa, no conflict. Period."

    Great idea... let the nation think that the fascists have full approval of the populace so that their ranks will grow and their anti-American ideas take root in our society.

    Instead, priests and their allies stood up to those fascists in Charlottesville and now those fascists who inflicted violence upon the good people of Charlottesville are being convicted of their crimes. Do you think those results are increasing the rate at which impressionable youngsters are joining said fascists?
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Both.....definitely both.
    When you go up to someone, get in his face, raise your jaw, shout obscenities, you're trolling to get punched. What works stunningly well, as MLK demonstrated many times, purposely NOT ask for a fight, don't give the opposition an emotional excuse to "defend" themselves. The police arrest the outliers. If hostility gets out of hand, they'll break it up with tear gas. It hurts like hell.

    The Charlottesville police tried to separate the opposing groups. If their tactics had been successful, there would have been no killing or bloody noses.

    Non-violent protest, comrades. Works every time.

    Crash parties you weren't invited to, don't be morally outraged when you're punched out.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    Let them march and encourage the local citizenry to plead the 2nd. KKK is tyranny right?
    The local citizenry won't plead the 2nd. What's that all about?

    Let them speak, yes. That's what freedom of speech is all about. Don't deny it. Tyranny is shutting down speech that you don't find "acceptable." We never determined where you draw the line, save calling "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater.

    The leftist media incites "panic" all the time in misleading headlines so you click on the article. Then they get butt hurt when some white supremacist group does the same thing. Censor speech, ideas, you're going down the road of those you oppose. "Ignore lists" are as monkey as it gets.

    "Oh, reading your posts is so upsetting, I just can't handle it! So must assume you're a Nazi, racist, paid Kremlin hacker, or senile old man! I'll put your dumb ass on ignore, MF."

  22. #22
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    "No Antifa, no conflict. Period."

    Great idea... let the nation think that the fascists have full approval of the populace so that their ranks will grow and their anti-American ideas take root in our
    Or let the people think for themselves. They don’t need Antifa fascists to tell them how or what to think.

    What do you think about the KKK demonstrating? How was that changed by the presence of the Antifa fascists?

    If anything, counter protesters showing up will give the KKK more publicity than they otherwise would have had.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    Yeah but it wasn’t their rally. They could have stayed home but chose not to.
    Your logic is very problematic, Andy. It sounds like you are blaming the counter protesters exclusively. You do know that freedom of speech and freedom to assemble gives people the right to counter protest as well as to demonstrate, don't you?

    Saying that counter protesters should have stayed home in order to avoid any possible conflict is the same as saying black people should not go out in public because there may be some hateful white people in public who might harm them.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    No Antifa, no conflict. Period.
    No Nazis, no conflict. Why do you side with the Nazis? Is it because they're fine people? You seem to have a hate on for anyone who stands up to Nazis. It's a weird thing in the US... questioning the undying support of Israel is antisemitic but support for the fine Nazis that say "Jews will not replace us" is okey dokey.

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    "It's a weird thing in the US... questioning the undying support of Israel is antisemitic but support for the fine Nazis that say "Jews will not replace us" is okey dokey."

    Right wing logic in action...



    I am all for non-violent protest. Funny thing, though... when the left employs non-violent means of protest they often end up beaten, killed or arrested in this nation. Can you blame some of them for taking up the more violent methods of the right wing?

    "The Charlottesville police tried to separate the opposing groups. If their tactics had been successful, there would have been no killing or bloody noses."

    The killing happened in a location remote from where the rest of the confrontations were. The neo-Nazi just decided to drive his car into a group of counter protesters who were leaving. I don't see how the police could have stopped this particular incident aside from not having allowed the neo-Nazis to march in the first place (in which case this cretin from out of state would not have been in the fine city of Charlottesville).
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