National heritage and big government
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  1. #1
    jaded bitter joy crusher
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    National heritage and big government

    One victim in the fight against big government is any commemoration of the bicentennial of the War of 1812 by New York. For three years in a row, governors of New York have vetoed legislation to spend government money for activities to observe and publicize the bicentennial.

    Not a big deal, in the big scheme of things: On the one hand, they're not talking about a lot of money, so it's not as though spending the money would make a big dent in the budget one way or the other. On the other hand, most New Yorkers don't seem to care much about wars from long ago, and you could ask why their taxes should go to support the few who do care about the early history of the nation.

    My inclination is to say that reminding people of history is a good use of tax revenues, and we should take care not to forget our nation's wars and the men who fought in them. But I'm a tax-and-spend liberal. What do other folks think?
    Fredke commented in your thread. You won't believe what happens next!

  2. #2
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    they should spend their time vetoing bills that would actually make a dent in the size of government if they went down in flames.

    or better yet, start actively dismantling things.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  3. #3
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    Angry Ignorant. Even unpatriotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    One victim in the fight against big government is any commemoration of the bicentennial of the War of 1812 by New York. For three years in a row, governors of New York have vetoed legislation to spend government money for activities to observe and publicize the bicentennial.

    Not a big deal, in the big scheme of things: On the one hand, they're not talking about a lot of money, so it's not as though spending the money would make a big dent in the budget one way or the other. On the other hand, most New Yorkers don't seem to care much about wars from long ago, and you could ask why their taxes should go to support the few who do care about the early history of the nation.

    My inclination is to say that reminding people of history is a good use of tax revenues, and we should take care not to forget our nation's wars and the men who fought in them. But I'm a tax-and-spend liberal. What do other folks think?
    You know how the saying goes, "Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it." Or, "If you don't where you've been, how're you gonna know where you're going?" or something like that.

    Hope y'all had a nice Thanksgiving, Fredke!

  4. #4
    Big is relative
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    It didn't end until 1814, they've got time. History is so fascinating in this age. So much more information is available and I'm constantly finding out about all the misinformation I was taught in school.
    Retired sailor

  5. #5
    banned
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    Go figure. Two big libs and they don't want to spend our money?

  6. #6
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    Thumbs down Terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam View Post
    Go figure. Two big libs and they don't want to spend our money?
    They're acting like right wing skin flints. Shameful.

  7. #7
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    You know how the saying goes, "Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it." Or, "If you don't where you've been, how're you gonna know where you're going?" or something like that.

    Hope y'all had a nice Thanksgiving, Fredke!
    This.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    My inclination is to say that reminding people of history is a good use of tax revenues, and we should take care not to forget our nation's wars and the men who fought in them. But I'm a tax-and-spend liberal. What do other folks think?

    Nah... in fact, when you're talking about the govt doing the history teaching it kinda gives me the willies. Besides, it's not as though the 1812 war was central to our national identity or anything like it.
    * not actually a Rock Star

  9. #9
    jaded bitter joy crusher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    Besides, it's not as though the 1812 war was central to our national identity or anything like it.
    Three words for you: Star. Spangled. Banner.
    Fredke commented in your thread. You won't believe what happens next!

  10. #10
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    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    Three words for you: Star. Spangled. Banner.
    Ft. McHenry, Baltimore harbor. Damn British attacking it with their invincible "Rule Britannia" navy, trying to take back this prize! And we with great resolve and suffering, held them at bay! The whole freedom and independence thing could have ended right there. So yeah, it was important to win that war, I'd say.

    Damn, we could have ended up like Canada!

  11. #11
    jaded bitter joy crusher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Damn, we could have ended up like Canada!
    Remember that we started it and the greater worry, if you go north of the border and ask anyone there, was that Canada might have ended up like us if they had failed fighting off the Yankee invaders.
    Fredke commented in your thread. You won't believe what happens next!

  12. #12
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    An ironic twist of history!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    Remember that we started it and the greater worry, if you go north of the border and ask anyone there, was that Canada might have ended up like us if they had failed fighting off the Yankee invaders.
    Was it during the War of 1812 that revolutionary forces clashed with loyalists who had fled to Canada? I went to 1st grade in Montreal, but remain totally ignorant about Canadian history.

  13. #13
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    Three words for you: Star. Spangled. Banner.
    "And boom goes the dynamite..."

    /snap.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  14. #14
    Call me a Fred
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    The simple solution is to make the loser British pay for the festivities.
    Mike

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  15. #15
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    Maryland has plans to commemorate the War of 1812 and I expect that other places were great victories of the war were won (e.g., Lake Erie, New Orleans) also will commemorate the war. But, the War of 1812 does not have the same appeal that the Civil War has. Given that the Sesquicentennial of the Civil War runs simultaneously with the Bicentennial of the War of 1812, the Civil War commemorations will overshadow those of the War of 1812.
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  16. #16
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    MD had lots of fireworks in 1976.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Maryland has plans to commemorate the War of 1812 and I expect that other places were great victories of the war were won (e.g., Lake Erie, New Orleans) also will commemorate the war. But, the War of 1812 does not have the same appeal that the Civil War has. Given that the Sesquicentennial of the Civil War runs simultaneously with the Bicentennial of the War of 1812, the Civil War commemorations will overshadow those of the War of 1812.
    The fireworks exploded over FT. McHenry in Baltimore harbors in 1976 cost a fortune. Wrong war. They'll have to do it again in 2012,

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    The fireworks exploded over FT. McHenry in Baltimore harbors in 1976 cost a fortune. Wrong war. They'll have to do it again in 2012,
    Those fireworks in 1976 were well worth the price. The Bicentennial celebration in Baltimore, which included several Tall Ships calling at the Port of Baltimore, really brought attention to the Inner Harbor. Although the developments of the late 1970s and early 1980s (e.g. Harborplace, National Aquarium) were in early planning stages before the Bicentennial celebration, I think that the events of the Summer of 1976 made a lot of skeptics believe that it really was possible to revitalize the harbor area.

    BTW When I was a boy, there was a fireworks display every year on Defender's Day, which commemorates the Battle of Baltimore.
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  18. #18
    Big is relative
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    MarkS, Francis Scott Key was a lawyer from Baltimore. You and your co-workers should charter a boat and watch the fireworks from offshore.
    Retired sailor

  19. #19
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    Smile Yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    MarkS, Francis Scott Key was a lawyer from Baltimore. You and your co-workers should charter a boat and watch the fireworks from offshore.
    And write down a few lyrics, put 'em to some music......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke View Post
    My inclination is to say that reminding people of history is a good use of tax revenues, and we should take care not to forget our nation's wars and the men who fought in them. But I'm a tax-and-spend liberal. What do other folks think?
    As with anything its a cost vs benefit decision, either figure out a useful result and then figure out how to most cost effectively get it done, or budget an amount to spend and then figure out how to get the most bang for the buck.

    I agree something must be done, seeing as it is not just any yearly thing but instead a special one time shot to take.

    So here you go, I am not a tax and spend liberal but I agree something must be done, so the question we now must look at is, what are we willing to spend, what kind of action should be done?

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