No comment on US immediate withdrawal from Syria?
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  1. #1
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    No comment on US immediate withdrawal from Syria?

    I thought that conservatives here felt that Obama's withdrawal from Iraq was a really bad thing (ignoring the treaty to withdraw signed by GWB). Trump decided very quickly apparently to get the US out of Syria and many think it's a dumb thing to do (his state dept, his military heads etc.) Oh well, Russia thinks it's a good thing so there's that.

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    Trump's boss is happy





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    Foreign policy is more of a hawk/dove thing instead of conserve/liberal.

    As in a social liberal/fiscal conservative/dove&pacifist

    We need more granularity than the average American uses to describe themselves, given the binary culture of our politics.


    edit: As for Syria - there is no simple answer, no good choices only winners and losers from specific actions. US withdrawal is a Win for Assad, Win for Putin, Loss for Lebanon+Israel, loss for Kurds+Christians+US backed rebel groups. A stronger Assad regime with Russian backing is not good for stability in the Middle East - just another rogue player, stronger and emboldened.
    Last edited by SantaCruz; 12-19-2018 at 07:24 PM.

  4. #4
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    Fox News has proclaimed this "Great Victory."

    Let us give homage:

    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

  5. #5
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    Let's see if anything actually happens. This strikes me as a classic Trump distraction to try to move the news cycle. If troops actually leave, in any number, then there will be something to talk about.

    Whether it happens or not, I would guess the Kurds will not look kindly on it. So yet another relationship damaged.

    The Russians love it, of course. Trump seems to do their bidding yet again.

    My general US middle east policy suggestion is... don't make it worse. Seems easy to make it worse, especially when trying to make it better, that is the lesson I take from history.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Trump's boss is happy
    I too, wonder whether it was a way to pay off Putin.

    What bugs me is, there's no set timetable for this withdrawl. OF COURSE we are going to get out of Syria, just like Iraq and Afghanistan, but that could be 5-10-15 years from now.

    Listen to any of Trump's statements; he always leaves some wiggle room to his claims or a way to back out. In this case it's no firm date for withdrawl. I bet it doesn't happen. They're already wondering whether we'll still provide air support. We'll, if USAF is still in there launching air strikes, then we haven't withdrawn.

  7. #7
    tlg
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    "В этом Дональд прав. Я согласен с ним" Putin said.

    “On this, Donald is right. I agree with him”
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Fox News has proclaimed this "Great Victory."

    Let us give homage:

    Whelp Solaire has certainly seen better days. "praise the sun!"
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  9. #9
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    Trump withdrawal has nothing to do with Putin. Trust me.😁

  10. #10
    hfc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    I too, wonder whether it was a way to pay off Putin.

    What bugs me is, there's no set timetable for this withdrawl. OF COURSE we are going to get out of Syria, just like Iraq and Afghanistan, but that could be 5-10-15 years from now.

    Listen to any of Trump's statements; he always leaves some wiggle room to his claims or a way to back out. In this case it's no firm date for withdrawl. I bet it doesn't happen. They're already wondering whether we'll still provide air support. We'll, if USAF is still in there launching air strikes, then we haven't withdrawn.
    Well, the Commander in Chief tweeted “immediate withdrawal” (set aside again the silliness of tweeting important policy decisions)

    I am all for fewer US troops in combat situations overseas but this raises the risk of having to get re-involved in a bigger way down the road. Currently the deployment is a fairly small footprint that is paying dividends. First thing most likely to happen is Turks will go after the Kurds. That region is gonna get messier because of this and the “Deal Maker” is tossing away another bargaining chip.

    This also adds on to the “WTF are you guys doing” frustration of the international diplomatic community as just one week ago US policy was we’re not leaving any time soon (Bret McGurk).

  11. #11
    feh
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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
    Foreign policy is more of a hawk/dove thing instead of conserve/liberal.

    As in a social liberal/fiscal conservative/dove&pacifist
    These days it's actually a pro-Russia/anti-Russia thing, and we all know which side Trump is on.
    What's the Matter with Kansas?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by feh View Post
    These days it's actually a pro-Russia/anti-Russia thing, and we all know which side Trump is on.
    This pretty much sums it up.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  13. #13
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Let's see if anything actually happens. This strikes me as a classic Trump distraction to try to move the news cycle. If troops actually leave, in any number, then there will be something to talk about.

    Whether it happens or not, I would guess the Kurds will not look kindly on it. So yet another relationship damaged.

    The Russians love it, of course. Trump seems to do their bidding yet again.

    ....
    Thread bump:

    "In a remarkable announcement late Sunday night, the White House said that United States forces in northern Syria would move aside in advance of a planned Turkish military offensive.

    The move marks a major shift in US foreign policy and effectively gives Turkey the green light to attack US-backed Kurdish forces. The group, long considered as among Washington's most reliable partners in Syria, has played a key strategic role in the campaign against Isis in the region.


    Following a phone call between US President Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the White House said that Turkey would soon begin a military offensive and US forces would not be involved in the operation.


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/07/polit...m_source=twCNN

    If Disastrous Donnie Trump were on Variety, here'd be the headline:

    "TRUMP TO KURDS: DROP DEAD"

    What a lovely birthday gift for Putin!
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Thread bump:

    "In a remarkable announcement late Sunday night, the White House said that United States forces in northern Syria would move aside in advance of a planned Turkish military offensive.

    The move marks a major shift in US foreign policy and effectively gives Turkey the green light to attack US-backed Kurdish forces. The group, long considered as among Washington's most reliable partners in Syria, has played a key strategic role in the campaign against Isis in the region.


    Following a phone call between US President Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the White House said that Turkey would soon begin a military offensive and US forces would not be involved in the operation.


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/07/polit...m_source=twCNN

    If Disastrous Donnie Trump were on Variety, here'd be the headline:

    "TRUMP TO KURDS: DROP DEAD"

    What a lovely birthday gift for Putin!
    Deplorable.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    ...United States forces in northern Syria would move aside ...
    So, leave the troops there but move them out of the way of Turkey? Interesting move, to avoid the upside of "bringing out troops home" but accepting the downside of screwing over the Kurds.

    Erdogan must have slurped Trump pretty comprehensively in that phone call.
    .
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  16. #16
    tlg
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    С Днем рожденья тебя
    С Днем рожденья тебя
    С Днем Рождения, дорогой Владимир Путин
    С Днем рожденья тебя.
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  17. #17
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    Time to que the helicopter shot lifting off the top of the US Embassy in Saigon

    The implications of Lt. Bone Spur's unilateral foreign policy decision making:

    * Ensures ISIS comeback.
    * Forces Kurds to align with Assad and Iran.
    * Destroys Turkey’s relationship with U.S. Congress.
    * Will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds
    .

    Tweet this morning by Lindsey Graham who will announce later this afternoon he support Trump's re-election

    **************
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    So, leave the troops there but move them out of the way of Turkey? Interesting move, to avoid the upside of "bringing out troops home" but accepting the downside of screwing over the Kurds.

    Erdogan must have slurped Trump pretty comprehensively in that phone call.
    I'm sensing a Biden/Mueller investigation by Turkey commencing soon.
    "Damn. Y'all murdered the sh*t out that mutherf***er"

  19. #19
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    Lindsey Graham, calling in to Fox & Friends: "I hope I'm making myself clear how short-sighted and irresponsible this decision is, in my view."

    "I like president Trump. I've tried to help him. This to me is just unnerving to its core."

    Real Americans are disgusted by this
    "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.”

    -Robert Mueller

  20. #20
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    "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.”

    -Robert Mueller

  21. #21
    tlg
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    Nothing to see here. Lindsey... go back to golfing with your boss.


    In 2008, the Trump Organization inked into a multimillion-dollar branding deal with the Doğan Group, run by one of the most politically influential families in Turkey, to build a two-tower apartment, office, and shopping complex in Istanbul. The opening ceremonies for the complex in 2012 were presided over by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.



    The very next year, in 2013, the Trump Organization entered into a partnership with luxury furniture company Dorya International to produce pieces to be sold under the Trump Home brand and distributed initially in Turkey. Dorya claims on its website to have furnished the offices of Turkey’s president, prime minister, armed forces, and embassies around the world.

    Michael Flynn formally told the Justice Department in March that his now-defunct Flynn Intel Group was paid $530,000 for operating as a foreign agent for Alptekin’s firm, Inovo BV, and performing work that could have benefited the Turkish government. Flynn may have delayed a key strategic military operation in Syria against the Islamic State out of fear that it would upset the same Turkish government that was helping to funnel money to him.


    According to Trump’s July 2015 financial disclosure—Trump was paid as much as $5 million in royalties from the Istanbul tower complex for the previous year and owned, had ownership interest in, or was a managing member of several companies related to this project, including the following:
    Trump Marks Istanbul II Corp., director, chairman, president
    Trump Marks Istanbul II LLC, president, member, received between $1 million and $5 million in royalties

    According to Trump’s May 2016 financial disclosure—Trump was paid as much as $5 million in royalties from the Istanbul complex for the previous year and owned, had ownership interest in, or was a managing member of several companies related to this project, including the following:
    Trump Marks Istanbul II Corp., director, chairman, president
    Trump Marks Istanbul II LLC, president, member, received between $1 million and $5 million in royalties

    April 15, 2019: The Presidency of the Republic of Turkey Investment Office is sponsoring the 37th Annual Conference on U.S.-Turkey Relations, a three-day gathering taking place at the Trump hotel in Washington, DC this week. The investment office is a part of the Turkish Government, reporting directly to President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. If the Turkish government office is funneling money to the Trump hotel through its sponsorship of the conference, Trump’s acceptance of those payments may implicate the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause barring the president from accepting payments from a foreign state without approval from Congress.
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  22. #22
    Opus was just napping
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    Who are we to question his "great and unmatched wisdom" when it comes to farking over our allies and giving our enemies what they want.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Nothing to see here. Lindsey... go back to golfing with your boss.


    In 2008, the Trump Organization inked into a multimillion-dollar branding deal with the Doğan Group, run by one of the most politically influential families in Turkey, to build a two-tower apartment, office, and shopping complex in Istanbul. The opening ceremonies for the complex in 2012 were presided over by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.



    The very next year, in 2013, the Trump Organization entered into a partnership with luxury furniture company Dorya International to produce pieces to be sold under the Trump Home brand and distributed initially in Turkey. Dorya claims on its website to have furnished the offices of Turkey’s president, prime minister, armed forces, and embassies around the world.

    Michael Flynn formally told the Justice Department in March that his now-defunct Flynn Intel Group was paid $530,000 for operating as a foreign agent for Alptekin’s firm, Inovo BV, and performing work that could have benefited the Turkish government. Flynn may have delayed a key strategic military operation in Syria against the Islamic State out of fear that it would upset the same Turkish government that was helping to funnel money to him.


    According to Trump’s July 2015 financial disclosure—Trump was paid as much as $5 million in royalties from the Istanbul tower complex for the previous year and owned, had ownership interest in, or was a managing member of several companies related to this project, including the following:
    Trump Marks Istanbul II Corp., director, chairman, president
    Trump Marks Istanbul II LLC, president, member, received between $1 million and $5 million in royalties

    According to Trump’s May 2016 financial disclosure—Trump was paid as much as $5 million in royalties from the Istanbul complex for the previous year and owned, had ownership interest in, or was a managing member of several companies related to this project, including the following:
    Trump Marks Istanbul II Corp., director, chairman, president
    Trump Marks Istanbul II LLC, president, member, received between $1 million and $5 million in royalties

    April 15, 2019: The Presidency of the Republic of Turkey Investment Office is sponsoring the 37th Annual Conference on U.S.-Turkey Relations, a three-day gathering taking place at the Trump hotel in Washington, DC this week. The investment office is a part of the Turkish Government, reporting directly to President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. If the Turkish government office is funneling money to the Trump hotel through its sponsorship of the conference, Trump’s acceptance of those payments may implicate the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause barring the president from accepting payments from a foreign state without approval from Congress.
    But................but...................Biden!! Ukraine!! Jhina!!!!!Corruption!!!!
    "Damn. Y'all murdered the sh*t out that mutherf***er"

  24. #24
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    Tig, you wanna supply a link to wherever what you posted came from?
    "Damn. Y'all murdered the sh*t out that mutherf***er"

  25. #25
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    Trump’s former envoy for the fight against ISIS says Trump is lying and "Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief,"




    US persuaded the SDF Kurds to dismantle defensive positions that deterred Turkey, promising security guarantees in exchange. Then once the SDF Kurds became defenseless, Trump gave Erdogan the green light to invade.
    "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.”

    -Robert Mueller

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