OK, it's 11:45 and we've had a relatively pure morning
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  1. #1
    OES
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    OK, it's 11:45 and we've had a relatively pure morning

    of unvarnished reaction. The Bush supporters are subdued, the Kerry supporters are energized ... and so far, no spin has taken hold. These may be the last few clear moments we have to remember and reflect on last night because ....

    In 15 minutes, Rush will hit the air. The RNC talking points have been polished to a high sheen overnight, they're ready, and I guarantee they're good. They will point out all, and I mean all, the horrors, lies and flip-flops that Kerry perpetrated on an unsuspecting public last night -- stuff we didn't even notice! Rush will use those talking points to start filling us in ...

    By 12:23 or so, we will begin to see them here. Steam's inbox will have lit up, and he will have regained his footing. bill105 will have gotten The Line, and here it will come. (Froze, out of the loop, will re-post his 'Kerry lied' thing for the 76th time, and four more people will put a block his name). Skirmishes will break out everywhere.

    By sundown, the debate being discussed here, there and everywhere will NOT be the one we all still remember at this last fading moment pf clarity. By 10, when Hannity gets through, we won't even remember it was Bush, not Kerry, who looked like an orange cornered rat throughout.

    By tomorrow, Bush will have been the clear victor! And all will be set a-right with the Republic ...

    Unless you stay vigilant. Watch it, recognize it, reject it. You know it's coming ...

  2. #2
    I don't fear carbs
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    LOL! Too funny.
    Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #3
    Back from the dead
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    I loved the split-screen shots when Kerry was speaking that showed Bush looking annoyed and disgusted and frat boy-cocky the whole night. You just wanted to smack him. Have some respect for the process! If that kind of behavior in a President doesn't piss America off, America is pretty stupid, and America deserves Bush.

  4. #4
    Coco Puff
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldEdScott
    Unless you stay vigilant. Watch it, recognize it, reject it. You know it's coming ...
    You are soo correct. In fact, the local paper this AM screamed how well Bush did- tie this and wonderful that. I considered I must have been living in a parallel universe last night while watching the debate.

    By tomorrow the polls will show Bush with a twenty point lead and that Kerry just didn't aquit himself well at all. Bush to win by thirty points going away...

    sigh

  5. #5
    O2bfasterstrongerbetter
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    In the immortal words of Steam ... LOL!!!

    Someday I would enjoy sharing a pint (post century) with you OES. I think it would be extraordinarilly amusing.
    "Words are a heavy thing...they weigh you down. If birds talked, they couldn't fly." Sy Rosen and Christian Williams, Northern Exposure, On Your Own, 1992

  6. #6
    use the crosswind
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    Fasten our seatbelts, eh? It's going to be a bumpy ride.

    But we've got Al Franken, who goes on the air momentarily, and all the great people at Air America!
    Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    --John Stuart Mill

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    And what spin do the Dems have planned? So far all I got was an e-mail telling me to vote in online polls.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldEdScott
    of unvarnished reaction. The Bush supporters are subdued, the Kerry supporters are energized ... and so far, no spin has taken hold. These may be the last few clear moments we have to remember and reflect on last night because ....

    In 15 minutes, Rush will hit the air. The RNC talking points have been polished to a high sheen overnight, they're ready, and I guarantee they're good. They will point out all, and I mean all, the horrors, lies and flip-flops that Kerry perpetrated on an unsuspecting public last night -- stuff we didn't even notice! Rush will use those talking points to start filling us in ...

    By 12:23 or so, we will begin to see them here. Steam's inbox will have lit up, and he will have regained his footing. bill105 will have gotten The Line, and here it will come. (Froze, out of the loop, will re-post his 'Kerry lied' thing for the 76th time, and four more people will put a block his name). Skirmishes will break out everywhere.

    By sundown, the debate being discussed here, there and everywhere will NOT be the one we all still remember at this last fading moment pf clarity. By 10, when Hannity gets through, we won't even remember it was Bush, not Kerry, who looked like an orange cornered rat throughout.

    By tomorrow, Bush will have been the clear victor! And all will be set a-right with the Republic ...

    Unless you stay vigilant. Watch it, recognize it, reject it. You know it's coming ...

    That was good Ed, but you forgot one thing. As long as YOU stay off the crack pipe...;), things should be fine.

    Last night was about capturing the undecideds, and energizing the base. Last night was not about converting the Kool-Aid drinkers, like Bill, Snake, Steam, and Doug...etc.

  9. #9
    Opus was just napping
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    I am feeling overzealously optomistic right now and here is why. It is FRIDAY. The end of the news cycle for the week. By the time Monday rolls around Kerry will be able have weathered whatever crap is thrown.

    Something interesting I heard yesterday. A Kerry advisor who was also on Gore's debate spinning team said that they let Gore down and they would not let it happen again.

    Howard Fineman described them as giddy and skipping around and around talking to everyone making sure the message held. He also described the Republican spinners as "trying." Even Ralph Reed wasn't his own pious better than God self. Than thin smile in the spinning room was all I needed to see from that cat who usually has the canary perpetually perched in his mouth.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  10. #10
    OES
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    Last time, wasn't it two or three days later

    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    I am feeling overzealously optomistic right now and here is why. It is FRIDAY. The end of the news cycle for the week. By the time Monday rolls around Kerry will be able have weathered whatever crap is thrown.

    Something interesting I heard yesterday. A Kerry advisor who was also on Gore's debate spinning team said that they let Gore down and they would not let it happen again.

    Howard Fineman described them as giddy and skipping around and around talking to everyone making sure the message held. He also described the Republican spinners as "trying." Even Ralph Reed wasn't his own pious better than God self. Than thin smile in the spinning room was all I needed to see from that cat who usually has the canary perpetually perched in his mouth.
    that the Repubs blindsided the Gore team with the 'serial exaggerator' debate spin? I know it was a delayed deal. Everyone was like, whew, well, if that's the best they got then I guess we really did win ... them BAM!

  11. #11
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldEdScott
    that the Repubs blindsided the Gore team with the 'serial exaggerator' debate spin? I know it was a delayed deal. Everyone was like, whew, well, if that's the best they got then I guess we really did win ... them BAM!
    I am not saying that people like yourself don't have a job to do. I am saying that their job is much more difficult this time around. Bush suffered from what Gore was blasted for. Plus and here comes something STEAM will love. The media wants a story for the next 35 days and annoiting Bush is not going to get that job done. I expect the media to help this Kerry win sink in a bit in the hopes that the dog fight will be joined and they can get their desperately needed ratings.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  12. #12
    OES
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    Hey, that's an improvement!

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    And what spin do the Dems have planned? So far all I got was an e-mail telling me to vote in online polls.
    I've been assigned by the DNC to babysit the all-important roadie vote. Kerry, being a roadie himself, counts you as a critical element of his base. So I will be feeding you lines to use against the reactionary MTB crowd.

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldEdScott
    I've been assigned by the DNC to babysit the all-important roadie vote. Kerry, being a roadie himself, counts you as a critical element of his base. So I will be feeding you lines to use against the reactionary MTB crowd.
    The MTB crowd doesn't care enough to be reactionary. The IMBA crowd will vote for Kerry and the rest probably won't vote at all.

  14. #14
    I don't fear carbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    The MTB crowd doesn't care enough to be reactionary. The IMBA crowd will vote for Kerry and the rest probably won't vote at all.
    Stoned slackers...all of em! ;)
    Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #15
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    Rush - John Kerry had a Kitty Dukakis moment

    His opening to his show today - RE: What if your wife was raped and murdered?

    His moment was when Lehrer asked about preemptive strikes. Kerry said it has always been his position that the president has always had the right to preemptive war, yet everything in his history has been opposed to preemptive war. "But if you do it, you have to pass the global test" (whatever that is).

    Rush - you have to get a permission slip from Jacques Chirac to protect yourself.

    I don't know if I'd classify it as a "Kitty Dukakis moment", but I think that little bit of nuance is going to come back to haunt im.
    A church that doesn't provoke any crisis,
    A Gospel that doesn't unsettle,
    A word of God that doesn't get under anyone's skin,
    A word of God that doesn't touch the real sin of society around it,
    What kind of Gospel is that?

    Oscar Romero

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones
    Stoned slackers...all of em! ;)
    I just sent $100 to Kerry and $25 to IMBA.

  17. #17
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    ah, substantive analysis!

    You mean that someone might declare Bush the winner after clearly reflecting on substantive analysis, rather than superficial television appeal? Naw, why would anyone think of doing such a thing? I understand your desperate desire to keep this at the superficial level, because that's Kerry's best asset at this point. He talks better. Ok, grant him that. However, as I've said before, if that were the sole measure of a presidential candidate, I'd vote for Jesse Jackson.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyman
    His opening to his show today - RE: What if your wife was raped and murdered?

    His moment was when Lehrer asked about preemptive strikes. Kerry said it has always been his position that the president has always had the right to preemptive war, yet everything in his history has been opposed to preemptive war. "But if you do it, you have to pass the global test" (whatever that is).

    Rush - you have to get a permission slip from Jacques Chirac to protect yourself.

    I don't know if I'd classify it as a "Kitty Dukakis moment", but I think that little bit of nuance is going to come back to haunt im.
    Not sure how much mileage they'll get out of that, but I think that's actually a pretty good angle. I may be a wussy lefty, but I don't think we need to ask France's permission to do anything.

  19. #19
    OES
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    Come on guys, let 'er rip!

    Quote Originally Posted by DougSloan
    You mean that someone might declare Bush the winner after clearly reflecting on substantive analysis, rather than superficial television appeal? Naw, why would anyone think of doing such a thing? I understand your desperate desire to keep this at the superficial level, because that's Kerry's best asset at this point. He talks better. Ok, grant him that. However, as I've said before, if that were the sole measure of a presidential candidate, I'd vote for Jesse Jackson.
    We're ready for you! HA HA HA HA HA!

  20. #20
    OES
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    'Permission slip' has been around for a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Not sure how much mileage they'll get out of that, but I think that's actually a pretty good angle. I may be a wussy lefty, but I don't think we need to aks France's permission to do anything.
    It's old, it's boring, it's as big a yawner as the Bush National Guard desertion story. No one cares. Next.

  21. #21
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougSloan
    You mean that someone might declare Bush the winner after clearly reflecting on substantive analysis, rather than superficial television appeal? Naw, why would anyone think of doing such a thing? I understand your desperate desire to keep this at the superficial level, because that's Kerry's best asset at this point. He talks better. Ok, grant him that. However, as I've said before, if that were the sole measure of a presidential candidate, I'd vote for Jesse Jackson.

    But Gore Sighed you heard him he Sighed. Gore Sighed did you see him Sigh and his make-up was bad. Who did his make-up.

    Pot meet kettle.

    As I was told by a Democrat campaigner last night. Since Bush lost look for them to say that Kerry didn' t do enough, that it doesn't matter and most importantly. We all know Bush doesn't speak that well.

    (Attempting to lower expectations for the next debate.)

    Nice try... not going to jump on that hook, when I know it is baited with nothing but a spinner.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  22. #22
    use the crosswind
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyman
    His moment was when Lehrer asked about preemptive strikes. Kerry said it has always been his position that the president has always had the right to preemptive war, yet everything in his history has been opposed to preemptive war. "But if you do it, you have to pass the global test" .
    I thought that term was unfortunate too. But that's a distortion of what Kerry is saying. Kerry's point is that there are global implications to a pre-emptive war and a president needs to understand what the potential global consequences are likely to be before pre-emptive action. Bush's pre-emptive virtual unilateralism in Iraq has created a breeding ground for terrorists and alienated our allies.
    Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    --John Stuart Mill

  23. #23
    pack fodder
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    OK, Ol' Ed, since you're one of the more reasonable left-leaners around here, I figure your thread is as good as any to add my 2 before I head out of town for a wedding (who the heck gets married on a Friday afternoon, anyway?).

    I don't care what any of the post-debate spin-meisters say. As much as it pains me (almost as much as hearing Kerry repeatedly bring up his military service), Kerry won last night's debate ... convincingly ... at least as it relates to style. As for substance, Kerry took many liberties with the facts when it came to some of the points he made. Sure, they sounded good (which may be all that matters); but he downright made some of the stuff up ... and I believe he knew it, too. He avoided answering several of Lehrer's "specifics" questions. He also slyly interjected many of the liberal buzz words (Halliburton, tax cuts, ICC, etc.) even when they were not relevant to the question asked.

    As for Dubya, I was terribly disappointed. He slouched, sighed, and never had an answer to counter many of Kerry's fabricated comments. I was yelling at the tv screen giving Bush responses. Re Kerry's "inconsistencies", he repeated the same tired 2 or 3 Kerry quotes; what he should've done was give a whole litany of them. It would've been more effective. As for Kerry's statement that he sometimes "says" things the wrong way (the whole $87B supplemental issue), but Bush got us into the wrong war (a good Kerry comeback, btw), Bush should've responded that he's not concerned with how Kerry says something, but how he votes.

    Anyway, gotta pack up the car. Yeah, Kerry won. How much will it impact the electorate? Probably not much in the long run. I'm still in the "cautiously optimistic" for Bush column. To be continued ......
    "I don't know what truculent mean, but if it's good, I'm that!" - Muhammad Ali

  24. #24
    OES
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    Nor does Kerry. It's a right wing red herring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Not sure how much mileage they'll get out of that, but I think that's actually a pretty good angle. I may be a wussy lefty, but I don't think we need to ask France's permission to do anything.
    He's never said anything remotely like that and doesn't believe it. It's a fantasy cooked up in the windowless basement of the RNC, and I can't believe you'd take it seriously for even a moment.

  25. #25
    fixated
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    best refutation

    The best refutation was Gen.Tommy Franks calling Kerry a liar right after the debate, outright denying that any resources were removed from Afghanistan to go to Iraq.

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