Running away from quid pro quo...and other stuff
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  1. #1
    xxl
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    Running away from quid pro quo...and other stuff

    With so many Republicans doing their best to avoid answering, this deserves its own thread.

    Let's start with KellyAnn:

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...v-sotu-vpx.cnn
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

  2. #2
    xxl
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    ...Steve Scalise can't even say if a quid pro quo is a bad thing:


    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

  3. #3
    xxl
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    Matt Gaetz:

    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

  4. #4
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    They're setting it up.... Yes Trump Made the call. Yes Trump withheld aid. Yes it was in exchange for political dirt. Yes that's a Quid Pro Quo. Yes Trump hid the transcript on the secret server. So what, we don't care.
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  5. #5
    What the what???
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    For Trump* and those who see the world as a business to be run, it’s not illegal, just a bad deal. He tried to negotiate political dirt on his opponent in exchange for aide to Ukraine. The “deal” fell through. That’s all...

    Sure, that rationale is bats#it crazy, but then consider the logic Trump* employs on a regular basis.


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    So embarrassing for the Trump groupies who say a quid pro quo is an impeachable offense but there was no quid pro quo.

    What pretzel logic will they spew now?
    "I would like you to do us a favor"

  7. #7
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    According to Webster, the definition of quid pro quo is something given or received for something else. This is a standard tool of negotiations and foreign policy.

    What makes Trump's Ukraine quid pro quo different is he was offering a foreign military aide package*, in exchange for foreign investigations of a Trump political opponent, i.e. his personal gain.


    *nearly $400 million in US support — including weapons, training, and advisers
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  8. #8
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    According to Webster, the definition of quid pro quo is something given or received for something else. This is a standard tool of negotiations and foreign policy.
    It literally means Something for Something.

    It's a well established meaning in law, no matter what gaslighting Trumps sycophants which to employ. (also ironic that it's mostly used in sexual harassment suits)

    https://www.bononilawgroup.com/blog/...quo-mean.shtml
    "Quid pro quo" is a legal term that courts and lawyers use in the context of sexual harassment. In Latin, quid pro quo means "something for something." As such, a quid pro quo sexual harassment situation at work involves a co-worker or manager offering someone something in exchange for a sexual favor, sexual act or going on a date.

    The so-called "offer" does not have to be over in order for it to qualify as quid pro quo. A manager only has to hint that the employee is going to receive something in exchange for following through with his or her sexual request. Or, the manager only needs to hint that what he or she wants is a sexual favor.

    The quid pro quo offer, as long as it's clear that it has been made, can be extremely subtle in nature, which, unfortunately, is how they are usually. Due to the unlawful nature of sexual harassment and the public disgust for such acts, modern sexual harassers often make an attempt to be discreet. Nevertheless, their actions continue to devastate and destroy the lives of those around them.
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  9. #9
    What the what???
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    Running away from quid pro quo...and other stuff

    Meanwhile, is anyone still wondering why Republicans have been working so hard behind the scenes trying to get conservative judges appointed to the bench???

    Ultimately, questions of quid pro quo and every other blunder of the minions of this “administration” are going to come down to what a judge decides is legal or illegal.


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    The Law of Headwinds states: If the ride out is easy you better leave something in the tank for the turn...

  10. #10
    tlg
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    BOOM! YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE RED!
    (but it doesn't matter, there is nothing wrong with that)

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    So embarrassing for the Trump groupies who say a quid pro quo is an impeachable offense but there was no quid pro quo.

    What pretzel logic will they spew now?
    Nobody's saying a quid pro quo is an impeachable offense per se. It all depends on whether its strictly for selfish personal gain. Both cases could be defended as done for the state. Biden got the inspector fired, and gosh, his son is on the board of the company the inspector was investigating. Biden could cite some sort of abstract "national interest," and get away with it. And Trump could have gotten some dirt on Biden if Kelensky had carried out his request. To prove a crime, it would seem the payback would have to be duly received. Biden got what he wanted but Trump didn't.

    The feds couldn't get Al Capone on all his murders because they were done by hit men. The IRS got him on tax evasion. The orders were behind closed doors and couldn't be verified beyond reasonable doubt, so can't convict. All that money was another matter.

    Most reasonable people really don't give a sh!t about either Biden's or Trump's gaffes in Ukraine. Nadler and Schifty are grasping at yet more hairs.

  12. #12
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    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

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    "Biden got the inspector fired, and gosh, his son is on the board of the company the inspector was investigating."

    It is amazing that people keep repeating this lie. Biden, the EU, the IMF were all asking to have the prosecutor fired because he was not investigating corruption - the exact opposite of the GOP talking point that keeps being repeated.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

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    "Biden got the inspector fired, and gosh, his son is on the board of the company the inspector was investigating."

    It is amazing that people keep repeating this lie. Biden, the EU, the IMF were all asking to have the prosecutor fired because he was not investigating corruption - the exact opposite of the GOP talking point that keeps being repeated. It wasn't just Joe Biden asking for this, but most of the governments with interest in the Ukraine.

    Now contrast that request to the more recent one,, which was solely being pressed by Rudy and the Trump administration. It is easy to see the difference when you take the blinders off.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    ...Steve Scalise can't even say if a quid pro quo is a bad thing:
    That tool didn't deserve to be shot. But he does deserve to get run over by a dump truck for being such an azzhole.

  16. #16
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    It was the patriotic thing to do to try go bribe Ukrainian leaders! Trump should be congratulated, not impeached. He did what swamp politicians wouldn't have the courage to do. So let's move on from this "hoax" and watch the wondrous Dow as it stays above 27,000... hopefully for a month this time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    "Biden got the inspector fired, and gosh, his son is on the board of the company the inspector was investigating."

    It is amazing that people keep repeating this lie. Biden, the EU, the IMF were all asking to have the prosecutor fired because he was not investigating corruption - the exact opposite of the GOP talking point that keeps being repeated.
    We don't know the full story on this Shokin guy or the moneymen he was hanging out with. The leftist narrative only wants us to know he was corrupt, the bad guy. Oh yeah? What did he do?

    The Obama administration initiated the will to get him fired. He was holding up the war on Putin. NATO allies, like good dogs, followed behind.

    As far as military aid, Obama gave Ukraine blankets, bedding, and c-rations, no weapons. Trump is handing over anti-tank Javelin missiles. How does that fit into your "quid pro quo?"

    The Fox guys are saying Shoken was "investigating" [or possibly colluding with?] the shady oligarch with his power company paying Hunter Biden $50,000 a month to ensure back door access to his dad, the US VP, and ensure the cash keeps coming in from the moneybags in congress, funding the proxy war on Russia. This stinks. Trump had every right to mention it to Zelensky. Too bad Biden also just happened to be Trump's principle rival for POTUS at the moment.

    The Democrats keep shooting themselves in the foot. Hillary's campaign paid big bucks for this Steele dossier, all laughable lies. Then her "followers" sought to impeach Trump starting the day after he was elected, first for traitorous collusion with the Russian enemy, and now for dropping an aside on Zelensky to check out the guy who happens to be his political rival.

    The fog is thick, like in the long succession of "impeachable offenses" that leaked out of the 22 month Mueller investigation. All Republicans and two Democrats just voted AGAINST impeachment. There's no crime, only what a defense would call "opinion."

    "It would be great if you could investigate Biden, who BTW wants to replace me in office! But don't worry! The Javelin missiles are on thier way."

    Typical Trump, all out front. Read the transcript. Not guilty. Forget about the Dept. of Deep State. They were relying on innuendo, third hand knowledge, and were very confused, largely because none of what was happening fit their official protocols.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 1 Week Ago at 10:42 PM.

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    So the whole US government, the EU and the IMF were all in on the deal protecting Hunter Biden? Or could it be that Fox News, Dona;d Trump and his sycophants are once again making up lies to protect the orange one?


    I know which of those possibilities is the most probable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    So the whole US government, the EU and the IMF were all in on the deal protecting Hunter Biden? Or could it be that Fox News, Dona;d Trump and his sycophants are once again making up lies to protect the orange one?


    I know which of those possibilities is the most probable.
    Of course not.

    But EU and the IMF got behind the Obama administration's sanctions on Putin for taking back Crimea. They also spoke for NATO. They approve of the US moves on the chessboard. We really don't know what Shoken was doing.

    We're finding out the truth. The question is, what do you make of it? I see cherry picking and denial on both sides. Pass the popcorn.

    So tonight MSNBC is clucking over Bevin losing the KY guv, speculating on a trend tilting blue. Laura Ingram clucks over Trump's political talent getting voters to turn out and lift Bevin from a 30% approval rating to a tight race. Both views are correct. Take your side!

  20. #20
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    As far as military aid, Obama gave Ukraine blankets, bedding, and c-rations, no weapons. Trump is handing over anti-tank Javelin missiles. How does that fit into your "quid pro quo?" :confused;

    .
    Yea you are confused. Too much FauxNews in your diet.

    Congress gave the missiles, not Trump. Trump held up the aid. He didn't release it until he was caught pushing the quid pro quo then rushed to cover up his corruption.

    It fits the quid pro quo exactly. Trump admitted it in the phone call.
    Mulvany admitted it on live TV.
    Sondland (Trumps hand picked guy) admitted it under oath.
    Volker confirmed it under oath.
    Taylor confirmed it under oath.
    Vindman confirmed it under oath.

    Weird that Trump won't let anyone who can defend him Testify. No one is going under oath to defend him.

    We're a million miles past quid pro quo. You need to catch up. Time to move onto the next phase... "you're goddamn right Trump ordered the code red, so what!"

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    I don"t let the talking heads on television tell me what to think. I read the evidence presented to the public and make my own decisions. And from what I've been reading, Trump seems to think that he can do whatever he wants, just like his despot friends.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Of course not.

    But EU and the IMF got behind the Obama administration's sanctions on Putin for taking back Crimea. They also spoke for NATO. They approve of the US moves on the chessboard. We really don't know what Shoken was doing.

    We're finding out the truth. The question is, what do you make of it? I see cherry picking and denial on both sides. Pass the popcorn.

    So tonight MSNBC is clucking over Bevin losing the KY guv, speculating on a trend tilting blue. Laura Ingram clucks over Trump's political talent getting voters to turn out and lift Bevin from a 30% approval rating to a tight race. Both views are correct. Take your side!
    Quid pro quo and extortion are different things. Extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force or threat of violence, property damage, harm to reputation, or unfavorable government action.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  23. #23
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    It's an evolutionary process.

    First, they insisted there was no collusion. Trump meant something other that what he said, but there was no collusion.

    Then came actual indictments and convictions, but it was the corruption of the "deep state". Everything was a hoax and a witch hunt.

    Eventually, Republicans were very concerned about entrapment and "process" violations. Trump wants everyone to believe there is nothing of substance, never mind what the facts show.

    Now, corruption is what the Democrats do. And Hillary, some time ago. And the current "defense" is asserting a lack of a quid pro quo, even though Trump, Mulvaney and others have explicitly admitted there was a bribe.

    Ask a conservative how much corruption is too much corruption, and they won't give an answer. They don't care. But they sure don't like the incivility of being called out for it.

    Edited to add one more, the "too stupid to conspire with the Russians defense".






    Last edited by Ullr; 1 Week Ago at 04:07 PM.

  24. #24
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    I put this in the impeachment thread, but since it was on point for the quid pro quo I include it here as well.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/polit...kraine-policy/

    Sen. Lindsey Graham criticized the House Democrats' impeachment inquiry on Wednesday while also issuing a rebuke, and potentially a new talking point, that the Trump administration was too inept to carry out a quid pro quo in regard to Ukraine foreign policy.

    "What I can tell you about the Trump policy toward Ukraine: It was incoherent, it depends on who you talk to, they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo," the South Carolina Republican said outside the Senate Judiciary Committee. "So no, I find the whole process to be a sham and I'm not going to legitimize it."

    It's a novel defense. He couldn't have done it... he was too inept.
    The Law of Headwinds states: If the ride out is easy you better leave something in the tank for the turn...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Quid pro quo and extortion are different things. Extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force or threat of violence, property damage, harm to reputation, or unfavorable government action.
    Trump didn't get any money from Ukraine. Biden's kid got lots of money from Burisma. Damn, how did that happen? Well, you don't have to call it extortion.

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