some good insight from VDH
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  1. #1
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    some good insight from VDH

    September 17, 2011
    Obama’s Quiver Is Empty
    by Victor Davis Hanson
    National Review Online

    Obama

    MODERATOR's NOTE: Please see the Forum Guidelines regarding quoting copyrighted materials. I have substituted a link to the article.
    Last edited by MarkS; 09-19-2011 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Violation of forum guidelines regarding quotes

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    Who can argue with rightwing think tank author and his article. It is the perfect Republican strategy to achieve Mitch McConnell #1 objective ... a one term presidient

    Say, is that the same Victor David Hansen who was the Neo-Con cheerleader for invading Iraq and never wrote one word about the outing a CIA agent to justify the invasion?
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    Typical right-winger post. That's why the Republican party does well. They appeal to those who can't think for themselves.

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    Isn't there some sort of posting guideline that calls for not posting the whole dadgummed thing, when a link would do?

    Why yes, yes there is (taken from the PO posting guidelines, and reproduced here for obvious reasons):

    "First, if you paste things here, provide a link to the source."

    "Second, do not paste the entire article unless you have very good reason for doing so. If you want to use some information from and article from another website, please post a small part of the article to make your point and a link for people to follow. A good rule of thumb for most things is 3 paragraphs or less."

    "There are two reasons for this rule: Copying entire articles is a violation of copyright law. Also long cut and paste posts usually hurt the discussion. Pasting a 15 paragraph story is almost always a sign of laziness, showing that you couldn't be bothered to excerpt 3 paragraphs (with a link to the whole article) and add some commentary that you actually wrote putting the excerpt in context and connecting it to the post to which you're responding."

    Further:

    "If you post entire articles, or go very much longer than 3 paragraphs without a VERY good reason, your post risks being deleted.

    Finally, pasting long articles without adding anything original is boring and boring the moderator is a mortal sin in PO."

    Here's a lovely example of proper posting protocol being followed by a relative newbie (so you know it's easy); louise supplies a link, not the whole tome, and since it's conveniently titled with plenty of foreshadowing of its content, one needn't read the whole bunch of drivel.

    You could learn much from louise:

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3563405-post1.html

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    are the cliff notes available anywhere? how about a bullet point list?

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Who can argue with rightwing think tank author and his article. It is the perfect Republican strategy to achieve Mitch McConnell #1 objective ... a one term presidient

    Say, is that the same Victor David Hansen who was the Neo-Con cheerleader for invading Iraq and never wrote one word about the outing a CIA agent to justify the invasion?
    When you lack any legitimate response to the article, attack the author! That seems to have become the SOP with liberals here on PO.

    Good job!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoMontoya View Post
    Typical right-winger post. That's why the Republican party does well. They appeal to those who can't think for themselves.
    You too? Lacking any rational response, you attack me!

    Good liberal thinking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Isn't there some sort of posting guideline that calls for not posting the whole dadgummed thing, when a link would do?

    Why yes, yes there is (taken from the PO posting guidelines, and reproduced here for obvious reasons):

    "First, if you paste things here, provide a link to the source."

    "Second, do not paste the entire article unless you have very good reason for doing so. If you want to use some information from and article from another website, please post a small part of the article to make your point and a link for people to follow. A good rule of thumb for most things is 3 paragraphs or less."

    "There are two reasons for this rule: Copying entire articles is a violation of copyright law. Also long cut and paste posts usually hurt the discussion. Pasting a 15 paragraph story is almost always a sign of laziness, showing that you couldn't be bothered to excerpt 3 paragraphs (with a link to the whole article) and add some commentary that you actually wrote putting the excerpt in context and connecting it to the post to which you're responding."

    Further:

    "If you post entire articles, or go very much longer than 3 paragraphs without a VERY good reason, your post risks being deleted.

    Finally, pasting long articles without adding anything original is boring and boring the moderator is a mortal sin in PO."

    Here's a lovely example of proper posting protocol being followed by a relative newbie (so you know it's easy); louise supplies a link, not the whole tome, and since it's conveniently titled with plenty of foreshadowing of its content, one needn't read the whole bunch of drivel.

    You could learn much from louise:

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3563405-post1.html
    And yet another good liberal response lacking any sign of substance.

    You guys should stop eating from the same bowl!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    When you lack any legitimate response to the article, attack the author! That seems to have become the SOP with liberals here on PO.

    Good job!
    Guess you overlooked this response:

    Who can argue with rightwing think tank author and his article. It is the perfect Republican strategy to achieve Mitch McConnell #1 objective ... a one term president

    I though Hansen did an excellent job sharing the agenda from those who pay his salary. Good job!
    Last edited by troutmd; 09-19-2011 at 03:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    You too? Lacking any rational response, you attack me!

    Good liberal thinking!
    Response to what? You didn't say anything. You just posted some article.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoMontoya View Post
    Response to what? You didn't say anything. You just posted some article.
    Maybe Swifty is Victor Davis Hanson?
    "It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." - Bill Murray



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Looks like we've got the entire family of pablum droolers spewing! Perhaps one day you all will be able to think of a way to reply with something of substance?
    Rule 1) Don't attack people that post here. Calling names is right out. So is overtly challenging their sincerity, honesty, or intelligence.

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    I will generally issue a warning before issuing a ban, but if things are blowing up in the forum or if the violation is really egregious, I may ban the poster without warning.

    Also, I won't get involved in the "he started it first" argument. If you are both attacking, you will both be dealt with.

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  13. #13
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    Talking Ok. I'll bite.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    September 17, 2011
    Obama’s Quiver Is Empty
    by Victor Davis Hanson
    National Review Online

    Ex-president George W. Bush with accustomed candor once shrugged after the end of his eight-year presidency, “People were kind of tired of me.” That ennui happens eventually with most presidents. But in the case of Barack Obama, our modern Phaethon, his fiery crash is coming after 32, not 96, months.

    We can sense the national weariness with Obama in a variety of strange and unexpected ways. There is the self-pitying anguish of liberal columnists who scapegoat him for turning the public against their own leftwing agenda. The current silence of “moderate” Republicans and conservative op-ed writers who once in near ecstasy jumped ship to join Obama is deafening. A growing number of Democratic representatives and senators up for reelection do not want their partisan president to visit their districts in the runup to November 2012. Approval ratings hover around 40 percent.

    Perhaps strangest of all, there is now a collective “Been there, done that” any time Barack Obama walks up to the podium to give yet another teleprompted speech. The speeches still are well delivered; he still has a way with the mannerisms and cadences. But even his critics pray for his sake that he does not come out with yet another embarrassing “Let me be perfectly clear,” “Make no mistake about it,” or “Let’s be honest” — as he goes back to bashing either the tired Bush bogeyman or yet another strawman Satanic reactionary who, if not for Barack Obama, supposedly would expose children to mercury, neglect roads and bridges, and finally dissolve government altogether. We have all heard ad nauseam that an eight-month-old Republican-controlled Congress has stopped Obama’s legislative agenda for three years.

    In truth, Obama is out of arrows. His quiver is bare, because he came into office as a rhetorical president without much experience or any ideas other than growing even bigger a tired big government. And now the public realizes that both the speeches and the big spending do not work. The result is that we collectively know what the president cannot any longer say — and it proves far greater than what he can say. He is well past the point of Jerry Ford’s WIN buttons or Jimmy Carter’s fist-pounding malaise speech.

    Obama cannot jawbone interest rates down — they are already at near-zero on passbook accounts. Obama cannot ask the EPA to shut down any more powerhouses or the NLRB to try to close any more new manufacturing plants. Obama cannot really ask for any more big borrowing programs — not after running up $5 trillion in new debt and getting little economic activity in response. The bogus vocabulary of “stimulus,” “shovel-ready,” and “investments” provokes laughter; it does not ensure an unemployment rate no higher than 8 percent. He cannot, with a straight face, appeal to the collective wisdom of Geithner, Goolsbee, Orszag, Romer, and Summers — or quote the predictable shrillness of Paul Krugman on the need for ever greater debt. Those academic arrows were long ago shot in vain. In truth, every classical Keynesian remedy has been tried, and we are left only with the hard work of trimming regulations, talking up business, producing more fossil fuels, and returning to budget discipline, thrift, greater productivity, and radical reform of the tax code and entitlements. What Obama might say on all that, his ideological training and shrinking base will not allow him to say — as we saw from his shunning of his own Simpson-Bowles commission.

    Obama cannot give one more speech on “civility.” He has done that for three years — only to violate his own directives by urging voters to “punish” our “enemies” and demonizing those who make over $200,000 as culpable “millionaires and billionaires,” “fat cats,” and owners of “corporate jets.” To oppose Obama is to be a “hostage” taker. The nation got Obama’s accustomed calls to cool the partisan invective while Jimmy Hoffa and Maxine Waters were slurring tea-party members as “son of a *****es” and telling them to “go straight to Hell” — confident that Barack Obama’s collective morality does not apply to them. The result is that another appeal to “civility” would now at best earn laughter.

    He cannot promise a “summer of recovery,” not after chronic 9 percent unemployment, soaring food and fuel costs, a herky-jerky stock market, near-zero growth, record deficits and debt, and the downgrading of the nation’s credit. Perhaps Obama could promise us relief of only a $1 trillion annual deficit, a return to 8 percent unemployment, $3-a-gallon gas, a steady GDP growth rate of 2 percent, holding the debt at $16 trillion, and opening a single new oil field.

    Nor can Mr. Obama any longer call for “millions of green jobs.” Valerie Jarrett, Obama’s personnel adviser, cannot any longer purr out, “Oooh. Van Jones, alright! So, Van Jones. . . . We were watching him for as long as he’s been active out in Oakland.” Between that silliness and today, there have been just too many hundreds of millions of dollars wasted in subsidizing “green” sweetheart deals that ended in bankruptcies. More calls to buy government-produced Chevy Volts I don’t think would work.

    Obama cannot promise to close Guantanamo or try KSM in Manhattan. Nor can he even continue the demagogic attacks on the Bush-Cheney national-security protocols — not when he embraced and expanded them all. In 2012 his commercials will highlight killing bin Laden in Pakistan, not closing Guantanamo or ending Predator-drone attacks. And yet, neither can Obama’s team speak any longer of “overseas contingency operations” and “man-caused disasters.” He is between the rock and the hard place of both caricaturing and adopting the policies that work when they were alleged not to work — so he is quiet on that count too.

    His address to Congress last week went nowhere. It was hyped well. It was delivered well. It was comprehensive. But Obama had nothing to say that we have not already heard from him — and that has not already failed or proved to be hypocritical.

    When the quiver is empty, the archer puts his bow away. Silence, not “This is our moment,” is the wisest course for Barack Obama now that the arrows are all gone.
    ©2011 Victor Davis Hanson
    First bold: That's cute, comparing Dubya's admittedly failed presidency with Obama's. That's a literary device, the lead in. It sets us up for the ennui that follows.

    Second bold: What's he talking about, "turning the public against their own left wing agenda?" Oh, he means not closing Gitmo. That's because no local government will agree to allow the detainees to be housed anywhere in the continental US. They fear reprisals from disgruntled Muslim terrorists. And, of course, Obama's selling out to the health care industry, despite polls indicating 75%(?) of the people would like "a public option."

    Third bold: Now this could have been written by Swifty himself! Literary flourishes, "Satanic" "reactionaries" "neglect roads and bridges and finally dissolving government." They have and they did! Where's the argument there?

    Fourth bold: The Repubs have so hated Obama, they started from day one questioning his right to be president, followed by loudly proclaiming their outrage that Obama would try anything so arrogant as nationalize health care, followed by threatening to shut down the government, twice, over petty partisan political issues, stubbornly saying "NO!" on their own initiatives when Obama presents them back, and vowing, without stating reasons, to make Obama "a one term president." This vicious, irrational, obstinate opposition was only intensified after the Repubs "took over" the House.

    Fifth bold: He's damn right! The rich got fabulously wealthy over after Bush's foolish tax cuts on the wealthy, and obviously should pay up to ease the debt they supposedly are so worried about! They should be out "shopping" like Bush extolled after 9-11. Show us your stuff, all you fat cats! Start giving back to the economy instead of sucking it dry! That includes staying out of trying to gut unions and put even more people on the dole! Give 'em money, you selfish scrooges! That'll get the economy moving!

    Oh, and the "soaring food and fuel" prices are a global phenomenon, created by demand. We aren't going to drill our way out of that, sorry. Green industries still need to be subsidized, if that's what it takes, in spite of failures like Solyndra. The price of gas will never return to what it was 10 or 15 years ago. Forget it. Deal with it.

    Downgrading the nation's credit is a result of Republican obstinance, not the Obama administration. Ask Standard and Poors.

    Mr. Hanson speaks with ennui, sadness, hopelessness, like his conservative brethren. He's the one who's lost his "quiver," not Obama. Sorry.

    Argue that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoMontoya View Post
    Response to what? You didn't say anything. You just posted some article.
    I was looking for a response to the insight provided by VDH in the article I posted. Sorry to have confused you and the other liberals who didn't get it. It was complicated!

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    the National Review

    article is just this, a map of how the GOP hopes to beat Obama. It is as stated, written mostly by people in Con think tanks. (Heritage Foundation, AEI) and would not fall in any way under 'unbiased news source'

    All it does is make me miss Buckley
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    First bold: That's cute, comparing Dubya's admittedly failed presidency with Obama's. That's a literary device, the lead in. It sets us up for the ennui that follows.

    Second bold: What's he talking about, "turning the public against their own left wing agenda?" Oh, he means not closing Gitmo. That's because no local government will agree to allow the detainees to be housed anywhere in the continental US. They fear reprisals from disgruntled Muslim terrorists. And, of course, Obama's selling out to the health care industry, despite polls indicating 75%(?) of the people would like "a public option."

    Third bold: Now this could have been written by Swifty himself! Literary flourishes, "Satanic" "reactionaries" "neglect roads and bridges and finally dissolving government." They have and they did! Where's the argument there?

    Fourth bold: The Repubs have so hated Obama, they started from day one questioning his right to be president, followed by loudly proclaiming their outrage that Obama would try anything so arrogant as nationalize health care, followed by threatening to shut down the government, twice, over petty partisan political issues, stubbornly saying "NO!" on their own initiatives when Obama presents them back, and vowing, without stating reasons, to make Obama "a one term president." This vicious, irrational, obstinate opposition was only intensified after the Repubs "took over" the House.

    Fifth bold: He's damn right! The rich got fabulously wealthy over after Bush's foolish tax cuts on the wealthy, and obviously should pay up to ease the debt they supposedly are so worried about! They should be out "shopping" like Bush extolled after 9-11. Show us your stuff, all you fat cats! Start giving back to the economy instead of sucking it dry! That includes staying out of trying to gut unions and put even more people on the dole! Give 'em money, you selfish scrooges! That'll get the economy moving!

    Oh, and the "soaring food and fuel" prices are a global phenomenon, created by demand. We aren't going to drill our way out of that, sorry. Green industries still need to be subsidized, if that's what it takes, in spite of failures like Solyndra. The price of gas will never return to what it was 10 or 15 years ago. Forget it. Deal with it.

    Downgrading the nation's credit is a result of Republican obstinance, not the Obama administration. Ask Standard and Poors.

    Mr. Hanson speaks with ennui, sadness, hopelessness, like his conservative brethren. He's the one who's lost his "quiver," not Obama. Sorry.

    Argue that!
    I pleased that you feel Obama has the country on the right track. You have a keen eye for great leadership and the benefits of social engineering efforts--past and present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    article is just this, a map of how the GOP hopes to beat Obama. It is as stated, written mostly by people in Con think tanks. (Heritage Foundation, AEI) and would not fall in any way under 'unbiased news source'

    All it does is make me miss Buckley
    When standing in the center of a bomb blast, I don't think a "map" is required to get there.

    I'm convinced that BO lacks all desire to serve a second term. He couldn't do more to ensure that our next president is a republican.

    As I've said many times, I really dislike the idea of having both sides of congress and the president from the same party. Unfortunately, it looks like the dems are hell bent on crapping in their own nest.

  18. #18
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    And yet another good liberal response lacking any sign of substance.

    You guys should stop eating from the same bowl!
    Yet another right winger who castigates the rules he doesn't want to follow. I see from some of your other posts that it's kind of a habit; you should probably read the "Sticky" now.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game.

  19. #19
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    dubble post
    "It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." - Bill Murray



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Yet another right winger who castigates the rules he doesn't want to follow. I see from some of your other posts that it's kind of a habit; you should probably read the "Sticky" now.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    What incentive is there for him to stop?
    "It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." - Bill Murray



  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    You too? Lacking any rational response, you attack me!

    Good liberal thinking!
    When someone (either side, but usually liberals) attack you, not your facts or argument, it means you are right and have won
    It's a fire road.............
    I'm on a road bike..........

    They have enough in common to blast down it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    When someone (either side, but usually liberals) attack you, not your facts or argument, it means you are right and have won

    The content of Swiftsolo's OP was a copy and paste, now edited by the mods down to a link. His subject line only indicates that he thinks that VDH provides some good insights.

    Can you please help us all (either side) by explaining to us what exactly is the argument or fact that Swiftsolo presented, beyond what his subject line says? Thank you.
    "It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." - Bill Murray



  23. #23
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    Angry Who's "social engineering?"

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I pleased that you feel Obama has the country on the right track. You have a keen eye for great leadership and the benefits of social engineering efforts--past and present.
    Rule by laws exacts social engineering, whether liberal (looking out for the little guy) or conservative (looking out for the privileged elite).

    I worked hard laying out my rebuttal to VDHs thinking, and all you can come back with is I "feel Obama has the country on the right track?" O-keh.

    Thanks also for your keen observation that I have a keen eye for great leadership. I must say, however, that I'm my own guy, not especially brainwashed by either left or right. My "feeling" is Obama's moral strengths and intentions far outweigh his shortcomings.

    It be more fun if you responded to my rebuttal, rather than dismiss it out of hand.

  24. #24
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    The words "good insight" and the name Victor Davis Hanson should never be used in the same sentence.
    "Damn. Y'all murdered the sh*t out that mutherf***er"

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