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    Statue of Liberty

    I don't know if this is available online, but I wish every Trump supporter were forced to watch it. It's over 30 years old, but it's more pertinent than ever. How ironic that Trump is from the the statue's home city.

    https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/statue-of-liberty/
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    Quote Originally Posted by feh View Post
    I don't know if this is available online, but I wish every Trump supporter were forced to watch it. It's over 30 years old, but it's more pertinent than ever. How ironic that Trump is from the the statue's home city.

    https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/statue-of-liberty/
    Elitist attitude noted. For those not inclined to listen to hours of melancholy music:

    The statue was originally given to commemorate the end of slavery. The poem was added years later.

    The statue and poem welcome white, Christians, European immigrant labor to the sweatshops and ghettos of the northeast.

    It was not moved to Waco in the 1980s to welcome brown skinned immigrant labor to the golf courses and lettuce fields of the south and west.

    Perhaps this could be a cause the far left could embrace, MTS, Move The Statue. Although you may face a fight from New York.

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    If you have a nut allergy I suggest you do not read Easy Rider/Jimb100's posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Riders View Post
    Elitist attitude noted.
    Bravo! Conclusions drawn without watching it.

    I knew I could count on you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by feh View Post
    Bravo! Conclusions drawn without watching it.

    I knew I could count on you.
    How do you know?

    There was melancholy music, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by feh View Post
    I don't know if this is available online, but I wish every Trump supporter were forced to watch it. It's over 30 years old, but it's more pertinent than ever. How ironic that Trump is from the the statue's home city.

    https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/statue-of-liberty/
    Burns is an original. His selections of photos and commentary are contemplative with the long musical pauses. He wants viewers to drink in the imagery.

    Did lots of sound work for him while at a film lab/post production facility in Georgetown, DC. He was filming stills and collecting eyewitness testimony from the National Archives, and editing the first parts of his Civil War series. At the time, I was impressed with this slow moving pace he was using. What better way to portray it, than authentic photos of the carnage, accompanied by eyewitness testimony read by Hollywood actors? Ken Burns style. It caught the imagination.

    Whatever else it is, the Statue of Liberty is an icon known worldwide as the gracious lady beckoning the dispossessed to start over and create new lives. My grandfather escaped the czarist draft in Russia, started a tailor business with his brother in Kansas City, and had 6 daughters and one son. He was the first adult role model I had growing up, kind, loving, lots of soul. He passed it down to his daughters. They hung the extended family together until they died off. Every American has his own chapter in this drama. Burns chronicles it for us to see. Good stuff.

  7. #7
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    And this is the Statue of Liberty now:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Riders View Post
    ....
    The statue was originally given to commemorate the end of slavery. The poem was added years later.

    The statue and poem welcome white, Christians, European immigrant labor to the sweatshops and ghettos of the northeast.
    ...
    Ah, yes, "The New Colossus".....not the greatest bit of poetry ever written, but certainly one of the most idealistic.

    I remember an old episode of Barney Miller, where some over-worked official from Immigration was brought down to the station to review an asylum claim. "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..", he lamented, "BIG talk from a statue!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    And this is the Statue of Liberty now:
    Immigrants came through Ellis Island, not without some pain and anguish, but nonetheless in orderly progression. They weren't jumping fences or swimming across the Rio Grand.

    Congress is responsible for correcting the border crisis. They're sitting on their hands. AOC and her 3 SJWs just voted against the funding bill to enable correcting the crisis, days after admitting and expressing moral outrage there actually IS a crisis.

    They're as morally conflicted as they were after the Mueller report. What are they trying to prove, that they'll get trounced in 2020?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Immigrants came through Ellis Island, not without some pain and anguish, but nonetheless in orderly progression. They weren't jumping fences or swimming across the Rio Grand.

    Congress is responsible for correcting the border crisis. They're sitting on their hands. AOC and her 3 SJWs just voted against the funding bill to enable correcting the crisis, days after admitting and expressing moral outrage there actually IS a crisis.

    They're as morally conflicted as they were after the Mueller report. What are they trying to prove, that they'll get trounced in 2020?
    Good lord. At the time of the erecting of the Statue of Liberty no one cared about people coming over the southern border. People went freely back and forth all the time. And the reason the Europeans weren’t jumping fences or swimming is because they didn’t f’ing walk here. They came by boat to Ellis island because they had to! And it wasn’t all that orderly. Who ever showed up went through the check in process. They weren’t pre-approved before they left. If they didn’t have some horrible illness that got in.
    Just because you won't listen to reason does not mean I have to listen to idiocy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleherder View Post
    Good lord. At the time of the erecting of the Statue of Liberty no one cared about people coming over the southern border. People went freely back and forth all the time. And the reason the Europeans weren’t jumping fences or swimming is because they didn’t f’ing walk here. They came by boat to Ellis island because they had to! And it wasn’t all that orderly. Who ever showed up went through the check in process. They weren’t pre-approved before they left. If they didn’t have some horrible illness that got in.
    That's right.

    Populations on both sides of the Rio Grand increased exponentially since 1890, so the flow of hundreds of thousands across the border is now a problem that was fully under control on Ellis Island.

    Congress needs to get their sh!t together, pass the funding bill, clean up the detention centers, and restore orderly immigration through controlled border points, such as Ellis Island. Congress created this humanitarian crisis through laziness and stupidity, and are now pointing fingers at each other.

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    Ivanka would be better.

    D. Trump
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Immigrants came through Ellis Island, not without some pain and anguish, but nonetheless in orderly progression. They weren't jumping fences or swimming across the Rio Grand.
    Ummmm, kind of hard to swim across the Atlantic Ocean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleherder View Post
    Good lord. At the time of the erecting of the Statue of Liberty no one cared about people coming over the southern border. People went freely back and forth all the time. And the reason the Europeans weren’t jumping fences or swimming is because they didn’t f’ing walk here. They came by boat to Ellis island because they had to! And it wasn’t all that orderly. Who ever showed up went through the check in process. They weren’t pre-approved before they left. If they didn’t have some horrible illness that got in.
    There's a highly recommended immigration museum in Bremerhaven, Germany-the shipping lines did health screening at the origin ports in Europe as they were on the hook for the return transport if their passengers failed health screening at Ellis Island.

    https://www.gjenvick.com/Immigration...cherLloyd.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleherder View Post
    Good lord. At the time of the erecting of the Statue of Liberty no one cared about people coming over the southern border. People went freely back and forth all the time.
    Yes, there is a huge difference between immigration now and back in the 1800's. Back in the 1800's people immigrated to settle in an undeveloped land to build a civilization. It is not comparable to current immigration, which is simply showing up in a post-industrial nation that hands out benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by feh View Post
    I don't know if this is available online, but I wish every Trump supporter were forced to watch it. It's over 30 years old, but it's more pertinent than ever. How ironic that Trump is from the the statue's home city.

    https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/statue-of-liberty/
    They should also read this --- the summary of the Senate bipartisan adopted immigration reforms:

    The “Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act,” or S. 744, is a broad-based proposal for reforming the U.S. immigration system written by a bipartisan group of eight Senators known as the “Gang of Eight.” Senators Charles Schumer (D-NY), John McCain (R-AZ), Richard Durbin (D-IL), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Michael Bennet (D-CO), and Jeff Flake (R-AZ) drafted S. 744 in the spring of 2013. The bill addresses all aspects of the immigration process from border and enforcement issues to legal immigration reforms. It makes changes to the family and employment-based visa categories for immigrants, provides critical due-process protections, increases the availability of nonimmigrant workers to supplement all sectors of the workforce, and provides legal status to 11 million undocumented immigrants within the United States. The Senators intended this legislation to address these issues “…by finally committing the resources needed to secure the border, modernize and streamline our current legal immigration system, while creating a tough but fair legalization program for individuals who are currently here.”

    If enacted, S. 744 would require that a series of enforcement measures, or “triggers,” go into effect prior to completing the legalization process. For example, although undocumented immigrants will be allowed to register for the new Registered Provisional Immigrant (RPI) program almost immediately, before those in RPI status can apply to become lawful permanent residents the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) must certify that the Comprehensive Southern Border Security Strategy is deployed and operational, 700 miles of fencing is complete, 38,405 border patrol agents are deployed, and the E-Verify employment verification system is in place, among other requirements. The Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act (DREAM Act) and Agricultural Job Opportunities, Benefits, and Security Act (AgJobs) are both incorporated into the RPI program, but applicants who qualify under those provisions will be eligible to obtain legal permanent resident status more rapidly.

    Other aspects of the bill, such as changes in family and employment-based immigration categories, would go into effect gradually, giving DHS the opportunity to reduce extensive backlogs that have built up due to a lack of available visa numbers. One of the key aspects of the bill, backed by both labor and business, is a new “W” worker program that could expand over time based on workforce needs. Although W visas are for a limited duration, workers in W status may eventually be eligible to apply for lawful permanent residence, marking the first time that such less-skilled nonimmigrant workers would be allowed to transition to permanent resident status without an employer’s sponsorship. S. 744 also expands permanent visas for many foreign graduates from U.S. universities in the sciences and related fields, increases over time the number of temporary high-skilled visas based on demand, and expands opportunities for entrepreneurs and investors to come to the U.S.

    S. 744 also addresses long-overdue shortcomings of the immigration removal, detention, and court processes, including authorizing access to counsel for certain vulnerable populations, giving immigration judges more opportunity to make case-by-case determinations on removal decisions, and streamlining the asylum program. It also increases the penalties for certain criminal activities, making it more difficult or impossible to become a legal resident due to drunk-driving convictions, gang activity, domestic violence, passport fraud, and identity theft. Finally, S. 744 encourages immigrant integration through more targeted programs and foundations to help legal immigrants become citizens.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    Yes, there is a huge difference between immigration now and back in the 1800's. Back in the 1800's people immigrated to settle in an undeveloped land to build a civilization. It is not comparable to current immigration, which is simply showing up in a post-industrial nation that hands out benefits.
    Why do you lie?

    https://www.apnews.com/fb45e3fb8e664c45a9d18ae922bf4adf

    https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/im...-a-viral-myth/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/11/me...l-immigration/

    The largest difference is today the numbers are a tiny trickle compared to the past......but that trickle is brown so some folks freak out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    Yes, there is a huge difference between immigration now and back in the 1800's. Back in the 1800's people immigrated to settle in an undeveloped land to build a civilization. It is not comparable to current immigration, which is simply showing up in a post-industrial nation that hands out benefits.
    Rather narrow minded and broad brushed statement there. I wonder if you're applying this to our neighbors to the North, or just the ones South of here.

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    The point is that using the Statue of Liberty as a statement of US committment to immigration is wrong.

    The poem added to the Statue of Liberty refers to white, Christian, European immigration. At the time, brown skinned people from the south were free to cross and work wherever they could find employment, much like the Europeans but without the legitimacy given to the Europeans at Ellis Island.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Ummmm, kind of hard to swim across the Atlantic Ocean.
    Great point there, Lombard!

    But y'know what? The days of steamship crossings are over. The dispossessed jet in by air these days. Or go to Mexico and come across the Rio Grande. Africans from the Congo and other countries are showing up in the caravans from Central America.

    World populations have also multiplied exponentially since 1900, so diaspora blurring national boundaries will increase much faster than it could have in 1900. Natives are starting to get uptight in Europe and the US. This is a normal human reaction. Governments have to control the migrations and integrations that follow. If not, violent fascistic governments eventually step in and all hell breaks loose.

    Immigration officials really have to set something up like Ellis Island, wouldn't you agree? Everyone wants to grandstand their moral superiority, while sh!t goes down and the situation gets more dire. Those young men scaling the fences says it all. They're coming in one way or another. Do it right for everyone on all sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    Rather narrow minded and broad brushed statement there. I wonder if you're applying this to our neighbors to the North, or just the ones South of here.
    I'm not talking about any group of people, I'm talking about the difference between immigrating to a 1800's USA vs immigrating to a 2000's USA.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Riders View Post
    The point is that using the Statue of Liberty as a statement of US committment to immigration is wrong.

    The poem added to the Statue of Liberty refers to white, Christian, European immigration....
    Then why does it depict Lady Liberty's welcome as "world-wide?"


    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    "Inclusive as that message of welcome aspires to be, there has always been a segment of the U.S. population that rejects it. Historian Paul A. Kramer, tracing the history of American xenophobia for Slate, notes that between the 1920s and 1960s, “[immigration] restrictionists refashioned the Statue of Liberty into a militant warrior-goddess guarding America’s beleaguered gates.” In 2017, presidential efforts to shut America’s door on Muslim refugees, undocumented Mexican immigrants, and other groups stirred fresh disputes over the Statue’s symbolism. When a reporter at a press briefing asked how the White House’s policies squared with Lazarus’s words, a senior advisor, echoing a popular nativist talking point, objected that the poem was “not actually part of the original” statue—and, by implication, isn’t really part of its meaning. News and literary outlets soon featured op-ed retorts, analyses, and “New Colossus” tribute poems skewering nativist bigotry. 130 years after her death, Emma Lazarus was the edgiest poet in America."

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/art...e-new-colossus
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    I'm not talking about any group of people, I'm talking about the difference between immigrating to a 1800's USA vs immigrating to a 2000's USA.
    What benefits are today's illegal immigrants getting handed to them?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    I'm not talking about any group of people, I'm talking about the difference between immigrating to a 1800's USA vs immigrating to a 2000's USA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...s#1790_to_1849

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...s#1850_to_1930

    "Each [immigrant] group evinced a distinctive migration pattern in terms of the gender balance within the migratory pool, the permanence of their migration, their literacy rates, the balance between adults and children, and the like. But they shared one overarching characteristic: they flocked to urban destinations and made up the bulk of the U.S. industrial labor pool, making possible the emergence of such industries as steel, coal, automotive, textile, and garment production, enabling the United States to leap into the front ranks of the world's economic giants.[citation needed]

    Their urban destinations, numbers, and perhaps an antipathy towards foreigners, led to the emergence of a second wave of organized xenophobia. By the 1890s, many Americans, particularly from the ranks of the well-off, white, and native-born, considered immigration to pose a serious danger to the nation's health and security. In 1893 a group formed the Immigration Restriction League, and it, along with other similarly inclined organizations, began to press Congress for severe curtailment of foreign immigration.[citation needed]

    Irish and German Catholic immigration was opposed in the 1850s by the Nativist/Know Nothing movement, originating in New York in 1843 as the American Republican Party (not to be confused with the modern Republican Party). It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to American values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Active mainly from 1854–56, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. There were few prominent leaders, and the largely middle-class and Protestant membership fragmented over the issue of slavery, most often joining the Republican Party by the time of the 1860 presidential election.[29][30]

    Nativists feared the new arrivals lacked the political, social, and occupational skills needed to successfully assimilate into American culture. This raised the issue of whether the U.S. was still a "melting pot," or if it had just become a "dumping ground," and many old-stock Americans worried about negative effects on the economy, politics, and culture.[45] A major proposal was to impose a literacy test, whereby applicants had to be able to read and write in their own language before they were admitted.[46]
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

    "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—d.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Then why does it depict Lady Liberty's welcome as "world-wide?"


    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    "Inclusive as that message of welcome aspires to be, there has always been a segment of the U.S. population that rejects it. Historian Paul A. Kramer, tracing the history of American xenophobia for Slate, notes that between the 1920s and 1960s, “[immigration] restrictionists refashioned the Statue of Liberty into a militant warrior-goddess guarding America’s beleaguered gates.” In 2017, presidential efforts to shut America’s door on Muslim refugees, undocumented Mexican immigrants, and other groups stirred fresh disputes over the Statue’s symbolism. When a reporter at a press briefing asked how the White House’s policies squared with Lazarus’s words, a senior advisor, echoing a popular nativist talking point, objected that the poem was “not actually part of the original” statue—and, by implication, isn’t really part of its meaning. News and literary outlets soon featured op-ed retorts, analyses, and “New Colossus” tribute poems skewering nativist bigotry. 130 years after her death, Emma Lazarus was the edgiest poet in America."

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/art...e-new-colossus
    Bombast, even back then. I hadn't realized Emma Lazarus was making US immigration policy.

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