• 01-25-2013
    Starliner
    Tesla vs. Mercedes-Benz AMG Bi-Turbo
    Note to mods - this thread would likely end up here, so let's skip to the chase....

    416hp New Tech upstart vs. 518hp Old Tech pinnacle of motordom, 0-110mph drag race.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xYwSiLTcF0Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Starliner View Post
    Note to mods - this thread would likely end up here, so let's skip to the chase....

    416hp New Tech upstart vs. 518hp Old Tech pinnacle of motordom, 0-110mph drag race.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xYwSiLTcF0Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    This is in part why we're seeing new supercars coming out with a combination on lighter V8 engines combined with electric motors on all four wheels.

    I want to see that Tesla race that Mercedes on a twisty road course or track.
  • 01-25-2013
    SauronHimself
    Of course the Tesla would win. Electric motors provide instant torque, whereas turbos have lag. A twin turbo setup reduces that lag greatly, but it's still there.
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    Of course the Tesla would win. Electric motors provide instant torque, whereas turbos have lag. A twin turbo setup reduces that lag greatly, but it's still there.

    Plus, with the way more weight is distributed at the wheels (motors) and under the floor (batteries), the Tesla would be at the advantage where there are challenging/twisty road handling situation.
  • 01-25-2013
    exracer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    Plus, with the way more weight is distributed at the wheels (motors) and under the floor (batteries), the Tesla would be at the advantage where there are challenging/twisty road handling situation.

    The Tesla would have the advantage in a straight line contest, on a tight twisty road or at a race track, the Benz would have the advantage. The Benz would have the better balanced chassis. The Tesla weighs about 4200lbs and is rear engine/rear wheel drive. The Benz is probably slightly heavier but better balance, better suspension, better tires.
  • 01-25-2013
    JustTooBig
    um, yeah ..... 100% torque off the line for electric motor, as compared with much less low-end torque in the gas engine.

    Is there a point to this beyond something so obvious?
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    The Tesla would have the advantage in a straight line contest, on a tight twisty road or at a race track, the Benz would have the advantage. The Benz would have the better balanced chassis. The Tesla weighs about 4200lbs and is rear engine/rear wheel drive. The Benz is probably slightly heavier but better balance, better suspension, better tires.

    It seems like you're assuming the Benz has the better suspension. How do you figure the Benz the better balance?

    Tires are changeable, who cares? Take your pick.
  • 01-25-2013
    Mel Erickson
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    The Tesla would have the advantage in a straight line contest, on a tight twisty road or at a race track, the Benz would have the advantage. The Benz would have the better balanced chassis. The Tesla weighs about 4200lbs and is rear engine/rear wheel drive. The Benz is probably slightly heavier but better balance, better suspension, better tires.

    Scroll down to see a comparison table. Far from a head to head road course contest but based on the numbers I'd say the Tesla could more than hold it's own. World Exclusive! 2012 Tesla Model S Test and Range Verification - Motor Trend
  • 01-25-2013
    Starliner
    I would not be so sure if I were you - the Tesla has a very low center of gravity and contrary to what you say, is well balanced.

    <embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/377000756" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=2032324903001&playerId=37700075 6&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false& " base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>
  • 01-25-2013
    SauronHimself
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    The Tesla would have the advantage in a straight line contest, on a tight twisty road or at a race track, the Benz would have the advantage. The Benz would have the better balanced chassis. The Tesla weighs about 4200lbs and is rear engine/rear wheel drive. The Benz is probably slightly heavier but better balance, better suspension, better tires.

    Assuming that everything you said about the Benz is factual, how do we know the upgraded components aren't simply there to compensate for the extra weight?
  • 01-25-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Starliner View Post
    416hp New Tech upstart vs. 518hp Old Tech pinnacle of [performance] motordom, 0-110mph drag race.

    Mercedes isn't the pinnacle of motordom
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    ...and is rear engine/rear wheel drive...

    On a sort of related note: The 2015 Acura NSX supercar concept has a mid-mounted, V6 engine and three electric motors – one integrated with the V6 and two motors driving the front wheels. Through the use of three electric motors this will enable instant delivery of negative or positive torque to the front wheels during cornering.
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Mercedes isn't the pinnacle of motordom

    True. The top performance version of the Model S costs about $80K. I think that Mercedes costs about $90K. Which four door sedan that sells for less than $100K would you like to test it against?
  • 01-25-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    True. The top performance version of the Model S costs about $80K. I think that Mercedes costs about $90K. Which four door sedan that sells for less than $100K would you like to test it against?

    Actually in real life the performance model S starts at $92,400 and is $102,000+ with mostly necessary options. Tesla is being sneaky on their website by listing the base price minus the $5k deposit you have to make first.

    The BMW M5 would be the obvious choice, perhaps an Audi RS6. What is the point of this thread, to somehow prove that electric is better? The Telsa is fantastic, but if you start driving it in a high speed competitive manner the range is going to drop tremendously, so not exactly useful performance if you are stranded on the side of the road.

    The only reason to buy one of these big high performance sedans is to get the cool racy bits that get one salivating, the performance is all similar enough that you wouldn't really be able to perceive the difference (it's more down to the driver) in the real world.

    If you really care about performance driving and want to go to the track, buy a proper sports car
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Actually in real life the performance model S starts at $92,400 and is $102,000+ with mostly necessary options. Tesla is being sneaky on their website by listing the base price minus the $5k deposit you have to make first.

    The BMW M5 would be the obvious choice, perhaps an Audi RS6. What is the point of this thread, to somehow prove that electric is better? The Telsa is fantastic, but if you start driving it in a high speed competitive manner the range is going to drop tremendously, so not exactly useful performance if you are stranded on the side of the road.

    The only reason to buy one of these big high performance sedans is to get the cool racy bits that get one salivating, the performance is all similar enough that you wouldn't really be able to perceive the difference (it's more down to the driver) in the real world.

    If you really care about performance driving and want to go to the track, buy a proper sports car


    OK.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vvHTN0Yi1t4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    .....


    I suspect that the point is the Tesla is a damned fine option and quite capable of meeting most of the needs of anyone who drives like sane person on public roads, wants a high-end sedan and can afford any of the sedans available in that price range.

    I agree that if it's all about the track then get a proper high-performance supercar... How about a Bugatti Veyron?
  • 01-25-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    OK.


    .....


    I suspect that the point is the Tesla is a damned fine option and quite capable of meeting most of the needs of anyone who drives like sane person on public roads, wants a high-end sedan and can afford any of the sedans available in that price range.

    I agree that if it's all about the track then get a proper high-performance supercar... How about a Bugatti Veyron?


    Yes, we already had discussed the other video. Straight line is but one part of being the "pinnacle" of performance cars, it's the whole package that goes beyond just the numbers or how fast a car is.

    The Tesla is a damn fine vehicle but being faster in a straight line doesn't mean much. AWD and a high torque electric motor is a recipe for a great launch.

    Veyron is a very fast supercar but not a proper sports car, much too big and heavy, it doesn't handle well



    .
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Yes, we already had discussed the other video. Straight line is but one part of being the "pinnacle" of performance cars, it's the whole package that goes beyond just the numbers or how fast a car is.

    The Tesla is a damn fine vehicle but being faster in a straight line doesn't mean much. AWD and a high torque electric motor is a recipe for a great launch.

    Well again, I think the Model S would handily beat the M5 on a twisty course.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Veyron is a very fast supercar but not a proper sports car, much too big and heavy, it doesn't handle well.

    A Veyron wouldn't be my choice either (I also don't like the design) but if you can afford one then you certainly can afford a 458, P1, 918 or whatever.
  • 01-25-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    Well again, I think the Model S would handily beat the M5 on a twisty course.



    And again, I disagree, and the reports I've heard from my auto-journalist colleagues support that :wink:


    .
  • 01-25-2013
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    And again, I disagree, and the reports I've heard from my auto-journalist colleagues support that :wink:


    .


    I don't believe them.
  • 01-25-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    I don't believe them.


    You go girl!
  • 01-26-2013
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Yes, we already had discussed the other video. Straight line is but one part of being the "pinnacle" of performance cars, it's the whole package that goes beyond just the numbers or how fast a car is.

    The Tesla is a damn fine vehicle but being faster in a straight line doesn't mean much. AWD and a high torque electric motor is a recipe for a great launch.

    Veyron is a very fast supercar but not a proper sports car, much too big and heavy, it doesn't handle well



    .

    Fascinating, an all electric car that goes 300 miles at 55 mph on a single charge! But hell, lots of cars can do 0-60 mph in 6.2 seconds. Even my big V6 AWD sedan can do it in 7 seconds! And 5 or 7 speed automatic transmissions will accelerate very quickly at the start, plenty of torque in 1st gear! And as it goes up through 2nd, 3rd and 4th, solid acceleration right up to where it shifts into 5th at 60! Also, very smooth, very solid feel with the 4 wheel drive, accelerating as well as cornering! Confidence inspiring.

    Reading up on the Bugatti, awesome! 0-60 in 4 seconds, and that's just the start. 6th or 7th gears haven't even kicked in yet. I'd just love to go from 60 to 80 in two seconds, then upshift and continue on to 110 in another two seconds. They say the Bugatti hunkers down on the road the faster it goes. Suspension has to play a major role, also ESP, electronic modulation of torque on all four wheels.

    Mercedes Benz had very low first gears for a good jump off the line and 5 speeds and AWD computer controlled ESP ten years ago, so this is nothing new. Nonetheless, a car built light for great top speeds needs some special aerodynamics and suspension to stay on the road and not go airborne. A heavier car makes staying on the road a bit easier.

    Tesla S is a very pretty car! Love to try one out. A friend had an old electric sedan with a big motor with front wheel drive. It took off like a bandit, in one gear, from 0-60 in 6 or 7 seconds. Otherwise, it handled like a Saturn 4 door sedan. :frown2:
  • 01-26-2013
    SauronHimself
    This isn't a looker, but it's fun to watch on the quarter mile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8
  • 01-26-2013
    tednugent
    Tesla vs. Mercedes-Benz AMG Bi-Turbo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    And again, I disagree, and the reports I've heard from my auto-journalist colleagues support that :wink:


    .

    I concur.... bMW knows how to engineer a chassis that blends comfort and handling... it's very hard to best the BMW....

    I'm waiting for Toyota to lend Lotus their Hybrid Synergy Drive.... something like a Elise hybrid or Evora hybrid would be cool
  • 01-26-2013
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    This isn't a looker, but it's fun to watch on the quarter mile.


    Funny, I was going to bring up the White Zombie, I had spent a few days with him back in 07 for a C&D article. He was still trying to get into the 11's back then



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    I concur.... bMW knows how to engineer a chassis that blends comfort and handling... it's very hard to best the BMW....

    I'm waiting for Toyota to lend Lotus their Hybrid Synergy Drive.... something like a Elise hybrid or Evora hybrid would be cool


    Or you can get the Tesla Roadster which is an electric Elise and a lot of fun

    Tesla had hired some Lotus chassis engineers to work on the Model S. It is very good and while the journalists I know have been been impressed, especially for Tesla's first "real" car, no one has been exclaiming that it is the M5 killer that TerminatorX91 is presenting it as

    .
  • 10-09-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    The Tesla would have the advantage in a straight line contest, on a tight twisty road or at a race track, the Benz would have the advantage. The Benz would have the better balanced chassis. The Tesla weighs about 4200lbs and is rear engine/rear wheel drive. The Benz is probably slightly heavier but better balance, better suspension, better tires.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Actually in real life the performance model S starts at $92,400 and is $102,000+ with mostly necessary options. Tesla is being sneaky on their website by listing the base price minus the $5k deposit you have to make first.

    The BMW M5 would be the obvious choice, perhaps an Audi RS6. What is the point of this thread, to somehow prove that electric is better? The Telsa is fantastic, but if you start driving it in a high speed competitive manner the range is going to drop tremendously, so not exactly useful performance if you are stranded on the side of the road.

    The only reason to buy one of these big high performance sedans is to get the cool racy bits that get one salivating, the performance is all similar enough that you wouldn't really be able to perceive the difference (it's more down to the driver) in the real world.

    If you really care about performance driving and want to go to the track, buy a proper sports car

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Yes, we already had discussed the other video. Straight line is but one part of being the "pinnacle" of performance cars, it's the whole package that goes beyond just the numbers or how fast a car is.

    The Tesla is a damn fine vehicle but being faster in a straight line doesn't mean much. AWD and a high torque electric motor is a recipe for a great launch.

    Veyron is a very fast supercar but not a proper sports car, much too big and heavy, it doesn't handle well



    .

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    And again, I disagree, and the reports I've heard from my auto-journalist colleagues support that :wink:


    .

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Funny, I was going to bring up the White Zombie, I had spent a few days with him back in 07 for a C&D article. He was still trying to get into the 11's back then






    Or you can get the Tesla Roadster which is an electric Elise and a lot of fun

    Tesla had hired some Lotus chassis engineers to work on the Model S. It is very good and while the journalists I know have been been impressed, especially for Tesla's first "real" car, no one has been exclaiming that it is the M5 killer that TerminatorX91 is presenting it as

    .


    Suck on that, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Aston Marton or whatever else you've got.


    Tesla D: Speedy AWD Model S with second motor and limited autopilot


    Quote:

    Tesla is rolling out new all-wheel drive equipped versions of its Model S (check out our review of the original here). The top of the line dual-motor equipped P85D has a measured 0 - 60 time of 3.2 seconds, which should put it among the fastest sedans ever when it starts shipping in December. According to Musk, the system is a "huge improvement" that actually adds efficiency over a single motor -- about 10 miles in range per charge. That's apparently because there's no shaft between the front and rear axles, and the motors constantly adjust output so well that it overcomes the weight of the second engine.

    Aside from the performance and handling upgrade of AWD (two other models with the tech will roll out early next year, dubbed 60D and 75D) Tesla is also introducing new driver assist features to match and surpass what others like Mercedes and Lexus are doing, like lane keeping and self-adjusting cruise control. Its new cars can read speed limit signs and adjust accordingly, and even change lanes by themselves when the driver activates the turn signal, all powered by a system of 12 sensors that see around the car. There's no word yet on how much the additions will cost. We're at the event in LA now, and will have more details for you as they're announced.

    Elon Musk is on stage right now, and according to him the additions are a bit more than assists (oh, and D stands for dual motor). Tesla is going to "push the limit" on what's legally allowed for self-driving cars. These new models can park themselves, and even (while on private property) summon the car, and it will slowly drive to where you are, or park itself in the garage! As Elon promised yesterday, this is already out there -- every car built in the last two weeks is already packing the sensors, and the autopilot features will be delivered in an OTA software update. To get the highest performance out of the P85D, owners will opt for "insane" mode.

    This is all driven by the ultrasonic sensors on the new cars, although he's not ready to call the autopilot features autonomous just yet. A new electromechanical braking system can bring things to a stop very quickly, and the cars will feature electrical power steering. Our own Nicole Lee is on site and is about to take a test drive, we'll have more impressions for you shortly.

    We'll have the test drive ride impressions for you shortly, but for now the interested among you can hit Tesla's website to price out a Model S equipped with dual motors and/or autopilot. Adding a second motor cranks up the price by $14,600, and autopilot comes as a part of the optional "tech" package that's $4,250.
  • 10-09-2014
    MoPho
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    Suck on that, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Aston Marton or whatever else you've got.


    Tesla D: Speedy AWD Model S with second motor and limited autopilot



    So you had to quote all my almost two year old posts because.......?




    .
  • 10-09-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    So you had to quote all my almost two year old posts because.......?

    That was quick.

    Because I felt like it.
  • 10-10-2014
    Andy69
    I have to wonder how much R&D was spent on the suspension by Tesla. My guess is, since the focus was not to make a world class handling sedan, probably not much in the overall scheme of things. It's a fairly simple thing to model a suspension in a program like WinGeo (even budget racers like me do it for their weekend cars) and pretty simple to collect data from sensors on a test mule and use it to tune the suspension, and I'm sure they did, but I'm going to guess if any compromises had to be made they were made in favor of the drive train. I'm sure the car is adequate in the handling department, but not stellar.

    Here is the model S at Buttonwillow. It's not a fast track and it seems to suffer in the turns. Understandable due to the tires. The main problem the Tesla is not competitive at the track, and probably never will be unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology. The Tesla will finish last in every race it enters because it will run out of power halfway through.

    The TESLARATI.com "48" Tesla at ButtonWillow Raceway 02-22-2014 - YouTube

    For contrast, an AMG C55 (not quite a perfect comparison but it's what I could find)

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gzhhAa6SrZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • 10-10-2014
    nealric
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    I have to wonder how much R&D was spent on the suspension by Tesla. My guess is, since the focus was not to make a world class handling sedan, probably not much in the overall scheme of things. It's a fairly simple thing to model a suspension in a program like WinGeo (even budget racers like me do it for their weekend cars) and pretty simple to collect data from sensors on a test mule and use it to tune the suspension, and I'm sure they did, but I'm going to guess if any compromises had to be made they were made in favor of the drive train. I'm sure the car is adequate in the handling department, but not stellar.

    Here is the model S at Buttonwillow. It's not a fast track and it seems to suffer in the turns. Understandable due to the tires. The main problem the Tesla is not competitive at the track, and probably never will be unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology. The Tesla will finish last in every race it enters because it will run out of power halfway through.

    The TESLARATI.com "48" Tesla at ButtonWillow Raceway 02-22-2014 - YouTube

    For contrast, an AMG C55 (not quite a perfect comparison but it's what I could find)

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gzhhAa6SrZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Most consumers are more wowed by 0-60 times. I doubt track prowess was Tesla's top priority.
  • 10-10-2014
    Andy69
    I doubt most buyers are wowed by the Tesla's 0-60 times, since there are much quicker cars out there for the same or less money, sometimes much less. My guess is it's more about having a large luxury type sedan that is also an electric with a decent range.
  • 10-10-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    I doubt most buyers are wowed by the Tesla's 0-60 times, since there are much quicker cars out there for the same or less money, sometimes much less. My guess is it's more about having a large luxury type sedan that is also an electric with a decent range.

    The Model S is certainly not a car for most buyers. Obviously, with the D type Model S this even more so. None of the other cars in the same strata of the market are either.

    Quote:

    Tesla is rolling out new all-wheel drive equipped versions of its Model S (check out our review of the original here). The top of the line dual-motor equipped P85D has a measured 0 - 60 time of 3.2 seconds, which should put it among the fastest sedans ever when it starts shipping in December.
    Is this false?
  • 10-10-2014
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    The Model S is certainly not a car for most buyers. Obviously, with the D type Model S this even more so. None of the other cars in the same strata of the market are either.



    Is this false?

    AFAIK that's an unverified time supplied by the manufacturer.

    Pretty impressive time, but it's only 0-60. The quarter mile time is a leisurely 11.8 seconds, which is slower than the Panamera, RS7, AMG CLS63, AMG E63, and Challenger Hellcat.

    It's an impressive car, for sure, but still not an equal due to the range, which is much shorter in a performance capacity than the 300 miles .

    I just don't think anyone is going to be buying the car for its performance, or at least not as the primary reason. It has a much higher wow factor for the technology.
  • 10-10-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    AFAIK that's an unverified time supplied by the manufacturer.

    Pretty impressive time, but it's only 0-60. The quarter mile time is a leisurely 11.8 seconds, which is slower than the Panamera, RS7, AMG CLS63, AMG E63, and Challenger Hellcat.

    It's an impressive car, for sure, but still not an equal due to the range, which is much shorter in a performance capacity than the 300 miles .

    I just don't think anyone is going to be buying the car for its performance, or at least not as the primary reason. It has a much higher wow factor for the technology.

    One small thing going for the dual drive/all wheel system, if what Tesla claims is true, is that it's a bit more efficient than the single motor configuration. They say it adds about 10 miles in range per charge. Considering the massive price premium that isn't much - not so impressive! But if they scale D drive system with it's efficiency gain later so it becomes a standard rather than premium feature and roll into the lower priced Model 3 due to come out in 2017 that would be quite impressive.
  • 10-10-2014
    nealric
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    I doubt most buyers are wowed by the Tesla's 0-60 times, since there are much quicker cars out there for the same or less money, sometimes much less. My guess is it's more about having a large luxury type sedan that is also an electric with a decent range.

    "Much quicker" - you are just splitting hairs when you are talking 0-60 times. I defy anybody without timing equipment to tell the difference between a car doing 0-60 in 3 seconds flat vs 3.2. The only thing that will be noticeably faster to 60 (to the occupants) is a full blown drag car on slicks. The quarter mile is (comparatively) slow because the electric motors run out of steam up top. But not too many people are going to be taking this car into the triple digits. In the real world, the Tesla is about as fast a street car as you will get.

    Those that just want a large luxury type sedan won't get the "D" version.
  • 10-10-2014
    spdntrxi
    Tesla vs. Mercedes-Benz AMG Bi-Turbo
    11.8 was my quickest 1/4 mile time in my lowly rx7.. I thought it was pretty good at the time.. More runs at that time.. Just require a roll bar .. F' that
  • 10-10-2014
    nealric
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    11.8 was my quickest 1/4 mile time in my lowly rx7.. I thought it was pretty good at the time.. More runs at that time.. Just require a roll bar .. F' that

    Actually, that is a good point. Most tracks won't let you run any faster without a roll cage. What is the point of a 10 second car if you can't legally drive it that fast on the street OR the strip?
  • 10-10-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    Actually, that is a good point. Most tracks won't let you run any faster without a roll cage. What is the point of a 10 second car if you can't legally drive it that fast on the street OR the strip?

    What's the point of making a car that can exceed the highest legal speed limit in the country or in the whole global market?

    Apparently the all wheel or Dual drive model is more efficient and has better electronic traction control than with the single motor version. How the driver chooses to use the power is their choice.
  • 10-10-2014
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    One small thing going for the dual drive/all wheel system, if what Tesla claims is true, is that it's a bit more efficient than the single motor configuration. They say it adds about 10 miles in range per charge. Considering the massive price premium that isn't much - not so impressive! But if they scale D drive system with it's efficiency gain later so it becomes a standard rather than premium feature and roll into the lower priced Model 3 due to come out in 2017 that would be quite impressive.

    They are at the forefront of this technology. This is revolutionary. And I think it only gets cheaper from here.
  • 10-10-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    They are at the forefront of this technology. This is revolutionary. And I think it only gets cheaper from here.

    Maybe one for me someday. 10 years or so.
  • 10-10-2014
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    What's the point of making a car that can exceed the highest legal speed limit in the country or in the whole global market?

    Apparently the all wheel or Dual drive model is more efficient and has better electronic traction control than with the single motor version. How the driver chooses to use the power is their choice.

    So people are looking for a car that handles safely and well on high speed interstates? Allowable speeds, if unofficial, now seem to be around 80 mph, so a car that is geared for and remains responsive at 80 mph would be desirable.

    My buddy who got to test drive a Tesla a few years ago marveled at low end acceleration and handling, but he didn't take it on the highway. Good cars, like good bikes, perform well when ridden hard. :yesnod:

    My vote is still on the AMG. Notice how it caught and passed the Tesla at the end? Just like I did in my Austin Healey back in '69, with Pontiac GTOs and Shelby Mustangs. They were geared too low at the high end, seemed to me. On purpose probably, like that turkey Mercury I once owned that had a V6 engine but a governor that locked it out at 80 mph. :confused:

    I've always felt more secure in cars that feel and handle at 80 mph as well as they do at 60. 4 wheel drive is truly awesome. It just eats up the road, never inducing the feeling of imminent loss of control tracking around curves. The rear end follows the front end without a hint of skidding out or hydroplaning in hard rain. There's no understeer or oversteer, its just right.

    Someone could build a well balanced 4 WD electric car with a computer controlled motor on each wheel, delivering just the right amount of power to all four wheels, like the gas engine ones can do today. No drive shafts, no transmission. Seems entirely possible now with the state of computer tech. in cars. Is Tesla leading the way?
  • 10-11-2014
    Andy69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    The rear end follows the front end without a hint of skidding out or hydroplaning in hard rain. There's no understeer or oversteer, its just right.

    Oh they have a tendency to understeer just like any other car at the limit. The WRXs and Evos that show up at the track in stock form understeer like pigs. They're designed to. Now, they handle a lot better in stock form than say, my Saturn, but they still understeer when overdriven.
  • 10-11-2014
    TerminatorX91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    So people are looking for a car that handles safely and well on high speed interstates? Allowable speeds, if unofficial, now seem to be around 80 mph, so a car that is geared for and remains responsive at 80 mph would be desirable.

    My buddy who got to test drive a Tesla a few years ago marveled at low end acceleration and handling, but he didn't take it on the highway. Good cars, like good bikes, perform well when ridden hard. :yesnod:

    My vote is still on the AMG. Notice how it caught and passed the Tesla at the end? Just like I did in my Austin Healey back in '69, with Pontiac GTOs and Shelby Mustangs. They were geared too low at the high end, seemed to me. On purpose probably, like that turkey Mercury I once owned that had a V6 engine but a governor that locked it out at 80 mph. :confused:

    I've always felt more secure in cars that feel and handle at 80 mph as well as they do at 60. 4 wheel drive is truly awesome. It just eats up the road, never inducing the feeling of imminent loss of control tracking around curves. The rear end follows the front end without a hint of skidding out or hydroplaning in hard rain. There's no understeer or oversteer, its just right.

    Someone could build a well balanced 4 WD electric car with a computer controlled motor on each wheel, delivering just the right amount of power to all four wheels, like the gas engine ones can do today. No drive shafts, no transmission. Seems entirely possible now with the state of computer tech. in cars. Is Tesla leading the way?

    Honestly, for me, the best feature of the Tesla is that the stereo volume goes to 11.
  • 10-11-2014
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    Oh they have a tendency to understeer just like any other car at the limit. The WRXs and Evos that show up at the track in stock form understeer like pigs. They're designed to. Now, they handle a lot better in stock form than say, my Saturn, but they still understeer when overdriven.

    Yep. You're right. :D
  • 10-11-2014
    Mr645
    The Tesla is really an awesome car. The only real drawback is when it's time for a pit stop. It can be quick charged to 80% in less then 30 minutes. While the Benz, and any gas powered car and be recharged to 100% in about 6 minutes. Not such a problem on daily driving to and from work, but the wife and I take a road trip once or twice a year and those long stops can really add hours to a drive
  • 07-18-2015
    TerminatorX91
    How Does Tesla’s 'Ludicrous Mode' Stack Up Against Bugatti, Lamborghini? Sixty miles per hour in 2.8 seconds is crazy fast. Where does that put these Teslas in the pantheon of supercars?


    Quote:

    On Friday Tesla mastermind Elon Musk announced a new “Ludicrous Mode” for his electric Model S sedan and the upcoming Model X SUV. He promised that the new mode—a $10,000 option—would push the car to 60 miles per hour in 2.8 seconds. He said it will get the SUV to 60mph in 3.3 seconds. That’s serious speed, on par with supercars that are exponentially more expensive. If Musk can pull this off, it’ll shoot him into the same stratosphere as Bugatti and Koenigsegg.

    What’s more, Musk said he’ll launch an all-new Roadster in four years. That one will have a “maximum plaid” speed mode—a reference to the cult favorite movie, Spaceballs. Who knows what max plaid is, but it sounds nuts.

    So how does Telsa stack up against other top high-speed cars in the world, both in terms of 0-60 and price tag?
    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/iMlSmDwpk_nI/v1/-1x-1.png
  • 07-19-2015
    NJBiker72
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    I concur.... bMW knows how to engineer a chassis that blends comfort and handling... it's very hard to best the BMW....

    I'm waiting for Toyota to lend Lotus their Hybrid Synergy Drive.... something like a Elise hybrid or Evora hybrid would be cool

    Wasn't that the original Tesla?
  • 07-19-2015
    jfaas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    Wasn't that the original Tesla?

    Original Tesla was all electric, he was saying hybrid version. Lotus already sources the engine from Toyota, they would just have to pick one from the hybrid rack instead.