There was an earthquake...a flood!
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  1. #1
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    There was an earthquake...a flood!

    Heck of a job Brownie..blame everyone but yrself:
    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/...own/index.html

    Jake: No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  2. #2
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    wait

    how about

    "My dog ate my emergency plan"
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  3. #3
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    At least he has a spine and told it like it was.
    "My biggest mistake was not recognizing by Saturday (August 27) that Louisiana was dysfunctional," he said in his opening testimony.

    Later, he testified, "My mistake was in recognizing that, for whatever reasons, ... Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco were reticent to order a mandatory evacuation."

  4. #4
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    As a career military guy, I feel that he has to take responsibility. No one made him take the FEMA job, he wanted it. He was responsible for the department and is responsible for the actions and inactions of his people. He did make a good point, why was the response so different in Alabama and Mississippi? Same FEMA, different state and local government. In those states, the governor was at the forefront of response and was the person reporting what actions were being taken, not FEMA. I think that the leadership of Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin should be questioned. Granted, New Orleans was devastated, but the capital wasn't, communications still existed, the view of the Governor that most people have is her pleading for help on TV. Not re-election material.
    Retired sailor

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    At least he has a spine and told it like it was.
    LOL! You mean blamed it where he could, don't you? I don't see him admitting to anything except that he misjudged how badly nagin f'ed things up. A real man takes the blame for his mistakes as well. If you're saying he made none then you are truly delusional.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones II
    LOL! You mean blamed it where he could, don't you? I don't see him admitting to anything except that he misjudged how badly nagin f'ed things up. A real man takes the blame for his mistakes as well. If you're saying he made none then you are truly delusional.

    He did make lots of mistakes and his resignation was appropriate. He was responsible and didn't take charge. I call it the "Dr Evil" style of management. "What?, I assume everything is fine"(when he was going to kill Austin by lowering him into the shark tank, but not actually stay to watch). When you are in charge, you have to follow up and he didn't. You must assume the worst case and plan for it. He didn't. And I am delusional, but I can't take medication for it until I retire.
    Retired sailor

  7. #7
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    He was a scapegoat. The libs put pressure on Bush, in my estimation, unjustifiably. The damn tragedy was still unfolding and they were screaming. Bush needed to quell the situation, so he asked for Brown's resignation.

    The state and local officials should bear the responsibility for this mess and the people of LA and NO will prove that to be true with their votes. Those that I have seen interviewed, pretty much have said such. AL and MS acted according to their plans and were decisive. LA was a mess. The governor should step down in disgrace.

  8. #8
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    Listening to all the arguments back and forth in the news, there seems to be some question as to what FEMA was free to do without the Governor consenting. The crux of the complaint against the Federal response is that the military didn't move in and take charge with their huge logistical capabilities. I even heard one comment today that we should have parachuted troops into the Superdome to keep order.

    The military has no right to make decisions in the face of civil authorities objections. That is as it should be. The military is always subject to civilian command. While that is usually the President, it would also be a bad precedent to allow the President to simply overrule a governor and move troops into place. Those of you who are so afraid of government control, why would you wish to give the President and the military this power?

  9. #9
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    The only way Bush could have used the military in that way would have been to declare a 'state of anarchy' in LA. That would never have met with anyone's approval. Libs just spout off, but when the facts get in the way, they find something else to take attention away from the truth.

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    these points would be valid

    but clearly the Feds did all the things they should have (to their best ability) in NO in the following Cane. (Rita) So you can't say he's to blame given the fact that the new guy was a tad more proactive or that previous guys got Fed aid into Florida much faster. It's not an isolated case we have others to compare it to.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    but clearly the Feds did all the things they should have (to their best ability) in NO in the following Cane. (Rita) So you can't say he's to blame given the fact that the new guy was a tad more proactive or that previous guys got Fed aid into Florida much faster. It's not an isolated case we have others to compare it to.
    When the wind stops blowing and the waters recede, we need to take a look at where things went well and where they didn't. The root cause could be a sluggish response from the feds or it could prove to be a snarled communication system and a reluctant civil authority (governor)

    Brown may sound like he is passing the buck and he is the only one currently laying the blame on the La governor and NO mayor with such conviction. Maybe he is a reluctant and incompetant warrior but maybe he is right. There is a chain of command and events and recently I learned (on Fox) that there is a huge personal fine for the President over stepping himself with military deployment and use in the territory of the United States. The fine was upgraded to $100,000, I believe, in 1994.

  12. #12
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    you think W would have been fined

    for overstepping the deployment of troops for aid, food supply and crowd control in the aftermath of Katrina. Nice, great Fox wag. I watched about 10 minutes last night, the stories were so slanted I had to turn it off.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    Listening to all the arguments back and forth in the news, there seems to be some question as to what FEMA was free to do without the Governor consenting. The crux of the complaint against the Federal response is that the military didn't move in and take charge with their huge logistical capabilities. I even heard one comment today that we should have parachuted troops into the Superdome to keep order.

    The military has no right to make decisions in the face of civil authorities objections. That is as it should be. The military is always subject to civilian command. While that is usually the President, it would also be a bad precedent to allow the President to simply overrule a governor and move troops into place. Those of you who are so afraid of government control, why would you wish to give the President and the military this power?
    i see you're still willfully ignoring the existence of the administration's own National Response Plan, which allowed FEMA to do anything it wanted to do, state permission or not.

    and no, the crux of the complaint against the federal response isn't that the military didn't come in and take control. the crux is that there was no federal response at all for five days.

    as for steam's excuse about alabama and mississippi, there are many areas in those two states also complaining about the lack of action by FEMA, even now. just doesn't get the headlines that LA did. not to mention that LA got hit harder than those two states.

    meanwhile, answer why Bush called Hayley Barbour three times the day the hurricane struck to see what he needed, and why he never called Blanco, and why she couldn't get him on the phone when she called him?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    He was a scapegoat. The libs put pressure on Bush, in my estimation, unjustifiably. The damn tragedy was still unfolding and they were screaming. Bush needed to quell the situation, so he asked for Brown's resignation.

    The state and local officials should bear the responsibility for this mess and the people of LA and NO will prove that to be true with their votes. Those that I have seen interviewed, pretty much have said such. AL and MS acted according to their plans and were decisive. LA was a mess. The governor should step down in disgrace.
    Well, I absolutely agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, but there's still this:

    When you are in the disaster recovery business, it's reasonable to expect you to have superior knowledge. You should be more knowledgable about disaster recovery than somebody whose main job is something else. That's what you're paid to do. There are some things that are so obvious that anybody could anticipate. Clean water is going to be needed. Food supplies are going to be needed. Those things can be staged in advance so that they can be transported very quickly into the disaster area. If you know that all of these things are going to be needed, even if you haven't yet received the word to "Go", a prudent manager would have his supplies and his team at the ready.

    Brown did his part of the job in a shoddy manner. All his finger pointing at others won't change that. Reminds me of middle schoolers on my school bus - talk to them about something they did and their first defense is to point at something that somebody else did. It might work with their mama and it might work with Steam, but it doesn't work with me. Incidentally, by high school, most of the kids have grown out of that blame somebody else phase. Grow up and take the heat for what you do!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoke Wrench
    Well, I absolutely agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, but there's still this:

    When you are in the disaster recovery business, it's reasonable to expect you to have superior knowledge. You should be more knowledgable about disaster recovery than somebody whose main job is something else. That's what you're paid to do. There are some things that are so obvious that anybody could anticipate. Clean water is going to be needed. Food supplies are going to be needed. Those things can be staged in advance so that they can be transported very quickly into the disaster area. If you know that all of these things are going to be needed, even if you haven't yet received the word to "Go", a prudent manager would have his supplies and his team at the ready.

    Brown did his part of the job in a shoddy manner. All his finger pointing at others won't change that. Reminds me of middle schoolers on my school bus - talk to them about something they did and their first defense is to point at something that somebody else did. It might work with their mama and it might work with Steam, but it doesn't work with me. Incidentally, by high school, most of the kids have grown out of that blame somebody else phase. Grow up and take the heat for what you do!
    He does have the right to self defense. It's still way early in the fact finding part of this situation.

  16. #16
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    Do you really believe that?

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus
    ... the crux is that there was no federal response at all for five days...
    Do you really believe that there was ZERO federal response in NO for 5 days after Kitrina made landfall?
    Joined the other team in the name of the economy

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus
    i see you're still willfully ignoring the existence of the administration's own National Response Plan, which allowed FEMA to do anything it wanted to do, state permission or not.
    That's true. By executive order, FEMA has very, very broad powers, but you overlook the reason it has those powers: War.

    FEMA was created to take charge in the event of war on our soil, the main focus being a WMD attack. In such a situation the federal government has only one focus and that is defense of the nation and its resources so it can carry the war to whoever perpetrated it upon us. Civilian rights and sensibilities the last on the list of considerations in such a situation.

    So, yes, it's true that FEMA could have stepped in, declared martial law, started shooting looters and blockade runners while while mobilizing locals, at gunpoint if necessary, to fix the levies; all of which are well within it's power. Imagine the outcry if they did just that.

    In natural disaster situations, FEMA needs to be subservient to the State and Local authorities.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    for overstepping the deployment of troops for aid, food supply and crowd control in the aftermath of Katrina. Nice, great Fox wag. I watched about 10 minutes last night, the stories were so slanted I had to turn it off.
    You have to look at the total picture. Aid and food weren't the only requirements. There were armed bands roaming the area and police action was necessary. To send troops unarmed would have been to put them at risk, to send them armed without following procedure would have been illegal. Again, we come to the cooperation between local and state governments and the federal agencies.

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    If he had a spine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    At least he has a spine and told it like it was.
    ...he would have taken responsibility as any true leader would have.He showed his true colors by passing the buck. You wouldn't recognize a true leader if one grabbed you by the balls and dragged you across the floor.
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  20. #20
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    Don't get so excited. I guess you love when your leader does that to you. Do you engage in foreplay first or do you go right to the whips and chains?

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    Normally....

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    Don't get so excited. I guess you love when your leader does that to you. Do you engage in foreplay first or do you go right to the whips and chains?
    ...we start with some gentle spanking before the whips and chains come out.
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  22. #22

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    Lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    I thought so. Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that. Man love is nothing to be ashamed of.
    ...Not at all.
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  23. #23
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    I thought so. Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that. Man love is nothing to be ashamed of.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live Steam
    I thought so. Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that. Man love is nothing to be ashamed of.
    you'd know.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    That's true. By executive order, FEMA has very, very broad powers, but you overlook the reason it has those powers: War.

    FEMA was created to take charge in the event of war on our soil, the main focus being a WMD attack. In such a situation the federal government has only one focus and that is defense of the nation and its resources so it can carry the war to whoever perpetrated it upon us. Civilian rights and sensibilities the last on the list of considerations in such a situation.

    So, yes, it's true that FEMA could have stepped in, declared martial law, started shooting looters and blockade runners while while mobilizing locals, at gunpoint if necessary, to fix the levies; all of which are well within it's power. Imagine the outcry if they did just that.

    In natural disaster situations, FEMA needs to be subservient to the State and Local authorities.
    there's nothing in the NRP dilineating a different FEMA response in cases of natural disaster versus terrorist attack.

    they didn't have to declare martial law, shoot people, or anything else. flying food and water in on monday evening would have been a start.

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