They don't make Republicans like they used to
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  1. #1
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    They don't make Republicans like they used to

    Or Democrats either.

    John Dickerson, writing in Slate about the Larry Craig hullaballoo, provides us with this gem:
    During the 1964 presidential campaign, [Barry Goldwater] faced almost precisely the same issue. In October, the Goldwater campaign learned that Walter Jenkins, LBJ's closest aide, had been arrested on a "morals charge" in the YMCA bathroom. According to J. William Middendorf's account of that campaign, A Glorious Disaster, Goldwater's aides wanted to use the scandal against Johnson, who was well ahead in the polls. Jenkins was not only a security risk—open to blackmail— but long before he was arrested, there were allegations he'd used his influence with then-Vice President Johnson to get an Air Force general who had been busted on a morals charge reinstated. The Goldwater aides even tried out slogans: "Either way with LBJ." Goldwater insisted that they make no use of it. The story never came up during the campaign.

    This may say more about Goldwater's personal decency than it does about his governing philosophy. Jenkins had served in Goldwater's Air Force Reserve Unit, and as Goldwater later wrote, "It was a sad time for Jenkins' wife and children, and I was not about to add to their private sorrow. Winning isn't everything. Some things, like loyalty to friends or lasting principle, are more important."
    Fredke commented in your thread. You won't believe what happens next!

  2. #2
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    Interesting that with this scandal it is the Republicans who have asked Craig to step down from his senate committee posts. It is the Republicans who are pressuring him to resign.

    Sad really how Craig's party is dumping him after so many years of service. So he's gay or bi. Who cares. He's been doing the job that Idahoans elected him to do and that has been to whack down gay rights/women's rights legislation.

    Doesn't say much for decency. But then this is politics.

  3. #3
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    why was Nixon so cynical and "amoral"? Could losing to JFK with his "baggage" in 1960 been the catalyst of his ultimate political demise? I always said the real meaning of "you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore" he might have been thinking " I could have whip that mic."
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by il sogno
    Interesting that with this scandal it is the Republicans who have asked Craig to step down from his senate committee posts. It is the Republicans who are pressuring him to resign.

    Sad really how Craig's party is dumping him after so many years of service. So he's gay or bi. Who cares. He's been doing the job that Idahoans elected him to do and that has been to whack down gay rights/women's rights legislation.

    Doesn't say much for decency. But then this is politics.
    Yeah, they should be honoring him for supporting their "nasty, dirty" party agenda instead of supporting his own personal feelings. He's also a victim of their anti-gay agenda.

    They know he will get killed if he tries to gain re-election.

    It's all about winning and NOTHING about the ethics. Republicans don't have ethics.
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

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  5. #5
    Scary Teddy Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman

    It's all about winning and NOTHING about the ethics. Republicans don't have ethics.

    Are you trying to imply that the Democrats do??? That's a very slippery slope.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." John Stuart Mill, 1866

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  6. #6
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by physasst
    Are you trying to imply that the Democrats do??? That's a very slippery slope.
    Sure they do...some of them store their ethics in the freezer...next to the cash.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  7. #7
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    John Dean

    writes about this case (Goldwater) and says the currentlack of civilityand overall nastiness in DC is traced directly back to the neocons taking over and going after Clinton
    Bill wasn't the first DCer to have an affair, but the 'new nastiness' made it public

    because now 'winning is everything'

    Barry, I disagreed with you often but I always respected your opinion
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by physasst
    Are you trying to imply that the Democrats do??? That's a very slippery slope.
    C'mon, look at how many of your boys have either ended up in prison or were recently removed from office. Duke Cunningham, Mark Foley, The Hammer, Jack in-the-Hat, Scooter, Rove, Speedy...etc. The list is long.

    How many Dems? Jefferson, and he might beat the rap... Anyone else?

    I believe the Dems try to tell the truth more often than the Reps. The Reps only see the next election, and how they can lie about their opposition. The Dems see the next election and beyond.

    C'mon, you just have to look at Rove... Look at Bush invoking executive privilege everywhere...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

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  9. #9
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    C'mon, look at how many of your boys have either ended up in prison or were recently removed from office. Duke Cunningham, Mark Foley, The Hammer, Jack in-the-Hat, Scooter, Rove, Speedy...etc. The list is long.

    How many Dems? Jefferson, and he might beat the rap... Anyone else?

    I believe the Dems try to tell the truth more often than the Reps. The Reps only see the next election, and how they can lie about their opposition. The Dems see the next election and beyond.

    C'mon, you just have to look at Rove... Look at Bush invoking executive privilege everywhere...

    Bwaaaaa! This is classic...adorable, like puppies or that McDonald's commercial with the "little sister" that turns out to be hot at the end.

    Part of the reason you should fear the encroachments of executive power is that DEMS have no plan to give any of it back!
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Bwaaaaa! This is classic...adorable, like puppies or that McDonald's commercial with the "little sister" that turns out to be hot at the end.
    Makes you wonder why the Reps don't line up and throw Bush.under the bus. He has done so much damage to party it won't really matter. If the Dems capture the White House they're gonna regret it...

    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Part of the reason you should fear the encroachments of executive power is that DEMS have no plan to give any of it back!
    Hey, it's true, the Dems tell the truth far more often the the Reps They may not be doing what's right for the country right now cause they don't have the votes, but they have better intentions than the Repubs.

    Now, here's your puppies...
    Last edited by spyderman; 07-12-2009 at 11:13 AM.
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

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  11. #11
    Opus was just napping
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    Makes you wonder why the Reps don't line up and throw Bush.under the bus. He has done so much damage to party it won't really matter. If the Dems capture the White House they're gonna regret it...



    Hey, it's true, the Dems tell the truth far more often the the Reps They may not be doing what's right for the country right now cause they don't have the votes, but they have better intentions than the Repubs.

    Now, here's your puppies...
    Make excuses...the Repubs somehow managed to start a war with two countries, overturn civil rights, start spying operations...on nearly the same slim majority.

    I guess they are can do kind of people...and the Dems are a bunch of sissy whiners.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  12. #12
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    true dat

    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Make excuses...the Repubs somehow managed to start a war with two countries, overturn civil rights, start spying operations...on nearly the same slim majority.

    I guess they are can do kind of people...and the Dems are a bunch of sissy whiners.
    and I do respect them rallying the troops to get ot done
    score 3 - evil turds
    score 0 - lame turds

    with the cyclical nature of politics I am suprised they aren't tossing W under the bus right now. He's never really cared much for thhem (Con Congress) and it woud seem they'd want to reel in that exec power before they lose it.
    then again, they could just let it go and when aDem does the same, make a big hullaballo
    since we have already seen the media and/or the public seems to pay neither the hypocrisy nor history any attention.

    we have already seen the
    We do it =Good
    They Do it=Bad
    so maybe they'll just let it run and then make a squak when the Dem Pres tries the same powers.

    and you know they won't say ''Impeachment is Off the Table"
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Make excuses...the Repubs somehow managed to start a war with two countries, overturn civil rights, start spying operations...on nearly the same slim majority.

    I guess they are can do kind of people...and the Dems are a bunch of sissy whiners.
    Which two countries did Republicans start wars with and how did they start them?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Make excuses...the Repubs somehow managed to start a war with two countries, overturn civil rights, start spying operations...on nearly the same slim majority.

    I guess they are can do kind of people...and the Dems are a bunch of sissy whiners.
    "Facts is facts."

    I highly doubt the Dems are sitting on the sidlines cause they want the same powers. The soundbites of them railing against Bush will make for great campaign commercials.

    Funny thing, watch what happens when Edwards wins the nomination and then the presidency... No PAC money, no lobbyist money...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    "Facts is facts."

    I highly doubt the Dems are sitting on the sidlines cause they want the same powers. The soundbites of them railing against Bush will make for great campaign commercials.

    Funny thing, watch what happens when Edwards wins the nomination and then the presidency... No PAC money, no lobbyist money...
    At this point I am assuming that you are doing this to keep me laughing.

    Question...when Bush says something and then does the exact opposite you call it treasonous and climb on top of your soapbox screaming impeachment. But when the Dems run on reigning in executive powers and ending the war in Iraq and then hand over more power and write blank checks...you make excuses. Why is that...do you think?
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

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    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    At this point I am assuming that you are doing this to keep me laughing.

    Question...when Bush says something and then does the exact opposite you call it treasonous and climb on top of your soapbox screaming impeachment. But when the Dems run on reigning in executive powers and ending the war in Iraq and then hand over more power and write blank checks...you make excuses. Why is that...do you think?
    WTF was that they just did before the recess?

    what did that tell me?

    their vacation time is more important than the Constitution

    but TMB, take a look at the Dems who crossed over

    but Shame on Pelosi for not rallying the troops
    that kinda defection would have never happened under the Hammer
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  17. #17
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    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    WTF was that they just did before the recess?

    what did that tell me?

    their vacation time is more important than the Constitution

    but TMB, take a look at the Dems who crossed over

    but Shame on Pelosi for not rallying the troops
    that kinda defection would have never happened under the Hammer

    if anyone REALLY believes that the dems actually care about the constitution, then they need to seek psychiatric care. They have acquiesced too many times, FAR too easily. And none of the current candidates show any signs of bucking that trend.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." John Stuart Mill, 1866

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  18. #18
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    can't say Dems

    Quote Originally Posted by physasst
    if anyone REALLY believes that the dems actually care about the constitution, then they need to seek psychiatric care. They have acquiesced too many times, FAR too easily. And none of the current candidates show any signs of bucking that trend.
    you can say SOME Dems

    you cannot say ALL because some are trying

    which again is still more than the behavior on the right
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    At this point I am assuming that you are doing this to keep me laughing.

    Question...when Bush says something and then does the exact opposite you call it treasonous and climb on top of your soapbox screaming impeachment. But when the Dems run on reigning in executive powers and ending the war in Iraq and then hand over more power and write blank checks...you make excuses. Why is that...do you think?
    No, I call exposing the identity of a covert CIA operative treasonous... I call starting a needless war treasonous. I call war profiteering treasonous. I call spying on America, and refusing to stop, an impeachable offense.

    I'm not making excuses, cause I'm certainly not pleased about their performance as of late. But in general, when Dems speak the do try to tell the truth more often than Republicans.

    Watch what happens after Edwards wins Iowa. I predict there will be a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon. A new poll puts him at 32%, Hillary 24%... in Iowa. His message is bulletproof. Joe Trippi is his campaign manager... He is electable... Mark my words...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    Make excuses...the Repubs somehow managed to start a war with two countries, overturn civil rights, start spying operations...on nearly the same slim majority.

    I guess they are can do kind of people...and the Dems are a bunch of sissy whiners.
    Are you serious? The Democrats are many things but let's face it, they TRY to be truthful, while the pub's TRY to get away with whatever they can. By the way if you like the wat the pub's operated during the past ten years, you may have a fetish for pain or to have someone take a poop on your head.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    At this point I am assuming that you are doing this to keep me laughing.

    Question...when Bush says something and then does the exact opposite you call it treasonous and climb on top of your soapbox screaming impeachment. But when the Dems run on reigning in executive powers and ending the war in Iraq and then hand over more power and write blank checks...you make excuses. Why is that...do you think?
    Nice try. The Democrats are trying to work with the pub's, which make them wek. When they try to fight Bush, say on the war, then they are obstructionists or unpatriotic. You play both sides. Spin it like you want, but you still are playing politcs with sound bits and not looking at the whole picture.

  22. #22
    Opus was just napping
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    SPIDIE & Hardhead.

    Have read your responses and find them humorous. Normally I enjoy the political acrobatics from Snake and other true believers on the right...and it is just as amusing to hear them from the Left.

    Let us take some of your excuses one by one and see if we see a pattern.

    Starting at the bottom...Dems are working with Pubs and that makes them seem weak. No...it makes them weak. As the Majority party that ran on 2 primary things...stopping the war and checking executive power. They should not expect help from across the aisle. They have the power of the purse in the House...Pelosi could stop the war with the closing of the check book...but they don't. Because they don't want to, the fact is the Dems need this war to continue to win, just as much as Bush needs it to continue so the next president will get blamed with what will be a tail between the legs pullout of Iraq. When it came time to check the president on the NSA...bingo...they accept the REPUBLICAN BILL...now I ask you when was the last time a Democrat bill made it by a Republican led congress. Spineless...weak...duplicitous and lying...why? Because they ran on ending a war they can end...but they don't. They need the war and the dead bodies that come along with it.

    Executive power...THEY WANT THE POWER! And you havn't seen nanny statism until you see democratic nanny statism. If this war keeps going they know that short of clubbing kittens they have the presidency in a year and a half. And they have no plans on giving any of that back.

    The Democrats try to be truthful...when? How truthful can you be when you run on a platform and then write blank checks for wars and no oversite on executive overreach? I call that being a bunch of liars...how manipulated the stupid dems...just as much as the dems accuse the Bushies of manipulating stupid Pubs over nonexistant social wedge issues.

    If they are more truthful it is a matter of degrees...and both would be failing and by failing...try in the teens by percent.

    As for spin...I am the only one in this thread that isn't spinning. That isn't making relativist arguments about one side being marginally better than the next when both of the parties wouldn't give a squirt of piass if it didn't serve their own self-interests.


    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  23. #23
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    What are you guys smoking?

    Progressive thought has been demonized and slandered for the past 100 years..."I have not ever been a member of the communist party." What could have been more personal than making someone testify about every single one of their past freindships and memberships in front of a congressional committee.


    It seems to me that any time we have a new enemy, progressives have been characterized as anti American and therefore it is OK to even make stuff up about them. Hell, you can even go back to the abolitionists who were accused of wanting to upset the delicate social balance that God had put forth in society, or the reformists, or the fighters for racial equality.

    Martin Luther King Jr had his mail read by the FBI. He was tailed and when they found out he was having an affair, they threatened him to make the info public. This was all in thegood old era of civility??
    My bike and my dog are fixed.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush
    SPIDIE & Hardhead.

    Have read your responses and find them humorous. Normally I enjoy the political acrobatics from Snake and other true believers on the right...and it is just as amusing to hear them from the Left.

    Let us take some of your excuses one by one and see if we see a pattern.

    Starting at the bottom...Dems are working with Pubs and that makes them seem weak. No...it makes them weak. As the Majority party that ran on 2 primary things...stopping the war and checking executive power. They should not expect help from across the aisle. They have the power of the purse in the House...Pelosi could stop the war with the closing of the check book...but they don't. Because they don't want to, the fact is the Dems need this war to continue to win, just as much as Bush needs it to continue so the next president will get blamed with what will be a tail between the legs pullout of Iraq. When it came time to check the president on the NSA...bingo...they accept the REPUBLICAN BILL...now I ask you when was the last time a Democrat bill made it by a Republican led congress. Spineless...weak...duplicitous and lying...why? Because they ran on ending a war they can end...but they don't. They need the war and the dead bodies that come along with it.

    Executive power...THEY WANT THE POWER! And you havn't seen nanny statism until you see democratic nanny statism. If this war keeps going they know that short of clubbing kittens they have the presidency in a year and a half. And they have no plans on giving any of that back.

    The Democrats try to be truthful...when? How truthful can you be when you run on a platform and then write blank checks for wars and no oversite on executive overreach? I call that being a bunch of liars...how manipulated the stupid dems...just as much as the dems accuse the Bushies of manipulating stupid Pubs over nonexistant social wedge issues.

    If they are more truthful it is a matter of degrees...and both would be failing and by failing...try in the teens by percent.

    As for spin...I am the only one in this thread that isn't spinning. That isn't making relativist arguments about one side being marginally better than the next when both of the parties wouldn't give a squirt of piass if it didn't serve their own self-interests.

    TMB, another nice try to spin..or sound stupid.

    Let's look at your arguements:

    "Dems are working with Pubs and that makes them seem weak. No...it makes them weak. As the Majority party that ran on 2 primary things...stopping the war and checking executive power. They should not expect help from across the aisle. They have the power of the purse in the House...Pelosi could stop the war with the closing of the check book...but they don't".[/I]

    Not true. Just beacuse the democrats have a majority by one seat in the senate does not make them able to push everything through. They release what you don't Failure to meet the Republicans half way on some issues will result in MORE gridlock in Congress. It will also go against what they said in the beginning that they will work with the other side. Democracy is not weak, just frustrating and slow. What you want is dictator to push through any [email protected] he or she wants. Either that or you must love to spend hours stuck in traffic.

    Next issue
    "the fact is the Dems need this war to continue to win, just as much as Bush needs it to continue so the next president will get blamed with what will be a tail between the legs pullout of Iraq."

    Not true. A pullout from Iraq would be great for the Democrats. Just look at what they are saying publicaly, which the pubs are saying is unpatriotic. What they do not want to do is NOT support the troops currently get their butts shot off in Iraq. If you want to take the bullets out of our soilder's guns, I would be happy to give you five dollars towards a plane ticket so you can fly over there and try it.

    [I]"When it came time to check the president on the NSA...bingo...they accept the REPUBLICAN BILL...now I ask you when was the last time a Democrat bill made it by a Republican led congress. Spineless...weak...duplicitous and lying...why? Because they ran on ending a war they can end...but they don't."/I]

    Another stupid and pointless shot in the dark. The bill that was passed by both parties was heavily modified by the Democrats before being signed off. Did they get everything? No. But showing that they are willing to work with the overh half of Congress to me is a strength, since alot of knuckleheads think goverment is just another sport or cannot understand anything more than gorilla logic. "Me want, me take".

    "Executive power...THEY WANT THE POWER! And you havn't seen nanny statism until you see democratic nanny statism. If this war keeps going they know that short of clubbing kittens they have the presidency in a year and a half. And they have no plans on giving any of that back."

    Just another stupid dog trick,

    There have been alot Democratic Presidents in the past. How many have you seen be more abusive than Bush? How many have you seen declare "Executive Priveldge" as much as Bush? How many have you seen play politcis as much as Bush (i.e. exposing CIA agents for going against the war)? How many have you seen label everything secret so it cannot be seen by Congress or the public?

    TMB you should take a deep breath and look a little closer. Just because your ego cannot get over voting for Bush you don't have to take it out on everyone. The Democrats are not perfect, nobody is, but they are sure a hell of lot better than the pub's. The last ime the Democrats were in office we were not in war, we had a surplus, our middle class safer, and our economy and dollar was the strongest in the world. if that's what the Democrats are about than I say it's alot better than the pub's and their scandals.

  25. #25
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    I sound stupid...hmmm...that sounds daringly close to a personal attack. Thank-god you didn't post that with a nipple.

    It is okay...I can understand your plight, you put your faith in a bunch of people who then turned around and stabbed you in the back. It tough, even when you are bleeding all over the floor from their lies and misdeeds for you to actually see who did it you. So instead you lash out...you interpret accurate, non-partisan, and rational argument as intellectually diminuitive...it gives you hope. Like throwing your fingers in your ears and screaming...LALALALALALA...I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

    First, just for historical accuracy...I said (and accurately so) that it is the HOUSE that begins all money bills and it was PELOSI...that could end the war by stopping the money train. You somehow (while calling me stupid)...decided to tell me how small the SENATE majority was. Which...is in fact, completely irrelevant.

    Not sure where you came up with the dictatorship, but since I study that kind of thing, let me tell you that you are using that wrong in the context you were hoping for since the bureaucracies become totally dependant on the one, which slows down most processes while they constantly wait from word from above. (but I understand how so far I can be called the stupid one.)

    A pullout would be a disaster for the Dems...because if forces them to do...what the public hates...tell Americans that we lost and that they were the one's to do it. You want proof...talk to LBJ how used to wake from nightmares of chanting republicans telling Truman "you lost China!"

    NSA...showing how they can give the Executive the very power they said they would take FROM him...makes them look BETTER? Jesus even the DailyKos and Crooks and Liars hated them for this...but yet you are giving them a pass? Well you are a better lefty then they are...a true believer...just remember that kool-aid comes in more than one flavor.

    Let me ask you...how many presidents have given power back, once they get it...or have it handed to them. This isn't the magnanimous Greek-city state farmer that was made King and then went back to farming when the war was won. You don't have to be the federalist farmer (have quoted this before so you can look it up) about the growing abuses from those that get power...and wanting to leave it stronger for those that follow...not weaker. Jefferson was afraid of the Legislative Branch, but warned...the time to fear the executive branch would come in due time. If you think Hillary or anyone else is going to give back the power...to re-open the executive branch then pass the dutchie on the left hand side...

    The Democrats historically have been no better than Republicans...the only people that try to make these types of relativist arguments are blinded by either an elephant or a donkey. You think the Dems are better because raising a minimum wage by a buck gives you a warm fuzzy feeling about helping the poor...when the important things that real liberals would be doing (breaking apart conglomerates, reinforcing labor, working on the widening gaps between rich and poor)...go completely unnoticed.

    Face it...they are the same party...they are both big corporatist capitalist players...offering no real choice. One gives you the lip service that tickles your liberal heart...the other doesn't...so you hate them.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

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