• 03-14-2018
    xxl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    That's a pretty sloppy brush, ya got there.

    The lines are all indistinct between Trump specifically, and the operatives in his campaign who had previous connections to the Russians, to talk to them about dropping sanctions, and as a further carrot, to find dirt on Hillary.

    What I'm reading says the interference was primarily against Hillary. Sure, it was negative ads intended to turn Hillary voters off and stir up Trump voters, but they didn't expect him to win. So they succeeded serendipitously. They lucked out.

    Trump claims innocence. So far, no proof otherwise. The growing threads of suspicious collusion lead to Russian diplomatic efforts to end sanctions, legitimate political business, and financial transactions having nothing to do with the Trump campaign, viz. laundering money to get around sanctions; and a few American adventurists cashing in on the Russian oligarchs' obscene wealth.

    That's why Mueller is putting off the obstruction of justice part of his investigation. That's all he's got left. It got Nixon on Watergate, but criminal theft of opposition party documents is far more egregious to American democracy than Russian blogs posting fake news ads on Twitter and phishing e-mails in the DNC. Their propaganda didn't go over. It failed. Their whole shtick has been "compromised," so it won't work anymore.


    Their propaganda helped push the Most Useful Idiot of Them All into the White House. The "adventurists" were that idiot's own. A couple have plead out, more to follow. :thumbsup:

    And reports from our intel say Putin's "schtick" is not finished.
  • 03-14-2018
    Local Hero
    We can add this to the list of failed attempts to delegitimize Trump:
    • Recount
    • Release the Taxes!
    • Women's March
    • Intermingling Assets?
    • Mentally Unstable/Unfit
    • Collusion



    That is just what I came up with in 15s. There have to be many more attempts to impeach, impugn, and attack the meme.
  • 03-14-2018
    xxl
  • 03-14-2018
    taodemon
    Trump does a great job of "delegitimizing" his own presidency without anyone else trying to do it for him.


    • Recount - Recount of what? To prove Trump won the popular vote? That it was really millions of illegals that gave Hillary the popular win? I don't think anyone questions the mechanics of getting voted into the white house though the fact that it doesn't require the most votes has always been a little disconcerting.




    • Release the Taxes! - Have they been released?




    • Women's March - Women marching or not doesn't change the fact that he is a sexual predator. This is only one of many reasons why he is unfit but I'm not sure how it in of itself is an attempt to "delegitimize" him and not just an expression of outrage by women (understandably so) of someone of that character being voted into our highest office.




    • Intermingling Assets? - I can only imagine the outcry if there was a D next to his name. I'm sure he isn't allowing his position as president to influence his personal business dealings and that he isn't really making any business dealing anymore as that would be unethical.




    • Mentally Unstable/Unfit - No questions there.




    • Collusion - Book is still out, but there seems to be plenty of smoke there.


    There were 7+ mainly republican led investigations into Benghazi / emails that haven't sunk in for republicans or Trump either...
  • 03-14-2018
    DaveWC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    We can add this to the list of failed attempts to delegitimize Trump:
    • Recount
    • Release the Taxes!
    • Women's March
    • Intermingling Assets?
    • Mentally Unstable/Unfit
    • Collusion

    None rise to the level of the birther nonsense that Obama faced for years. So Trump & his devoted fans had better develop thicker skin.
  • 03-14-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    So Rex Tillerson comments on how Russia was involved in the murder of the retired spy and his daughter in England and he is quickly fired by Trump. It is pretty obvious that the Donald knows to whom he is indebted.

    That was the final straw, following "moron" and a general personality conflict that mixed like oil and water. Tillerson was a reluctant player, probably from the day Trump told him to cut back the State Dept. He didn't know how to handle the political implications of the job, more complex than negotiating oil leases.

    He cheerfully resigned thanking Trump for the opportunity and "honored to serve" the time he did. Trump was right, "Rex will be happier now." :)

    Pompeo is widely liked in the CIA as a reasonable man and a nice guy. He's certainly fully informed on what he'll have to deal with worldwide as SOS. So far, Trump thinks he's great. Let's see how that turns out.
  • 03-14-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    None rise to the level of the birther nonsense that Obama faced for years. So Trump & his devoted fans had better develop thicker skin.

    That was racist code for "He's not ONE OF US." It went over like a lead balloon. Didn't take much skin to overcome those insults. Trump's problems are considerably more complex, to put it mildly. :D
  • 03-14-2018
    DaveWC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    That was racist code for "He's not ONE OF US." It went over like a lead balloon. Didn't take much skin to overcome those insults.

    Yeah, as a white man you'd know. As for going over like a lead balloon, it lasted for at least 5 years. They questioned whether he was an American, regardless of any proof that he offered.

    Trump's problems are self inflicted. He chose not to reveal his tax returns. He chose to run knowing that all recent Presidents had shown their taxes as well as divesting themselves of control of their investments. He knew all of those things going in so to be criticized for ignoring those traditions/rules/ethics is on him. As for the criticisms of being an abuser of women, he's earned it and the best evidence of that is the video of him describing how he has abused women in the past. The criticism of his stupidity or lack of intelligence has merit if you spend any time at all reading his tweets or listening to him speak. I swear the man has a vocabulary of about 100 words.

    The comparison is not a sound one. Obama didn't do anything to cause the birther conspiracy theory other than be black. Trump sinks to new lows of stupidity and inexperience daily. The Republicans would absolutely lose their sh!t if Trump was a Democrat and behaved the way he did.
  • 03-14-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    Yeah, as a white man you'd know. As for going over like a lead balloon, it lasted for at least 5 years. They questioned whether he was an American, regardless of any proof that he offered.

    Trump's problems are self inflicted. He chose not to reveal his tax returns. He chose to run knowing that all recent Presidents had shown their taxes as well as divesting themselves of control of their investments. He knew all of those things going in so to be criticized for ignoring those traditions/rules/ethics is on him. As for the criticisms of being an abuser of women, he's earned it and the best evidence of that is the video of him describing how he has abused women in the past. The criticism of his stupidity or lack of intelligence has merit if you spend any time at all reading his tweets or listening to him speak. I swear the man has a vocabulary of about 100 words.

    The comparison is not a sound one. Obama didn't do anything to cause the birther conspiracy theory other than be black. Trump sinks to new lows of stupidity and inexperience daily. The Republicans would absolutely lose their sh!t if Trump was a Democrat and behaved the way he did.

    You're right a white man can't fully appreciate the black man's angst when denied his birthright, as the birthers did with Obama. LeRone Bennett describes that as a common insult to blacks in the slave states. Slaves were property, bought and sold, like the barn yard animals. They had no birthrights. They were routinely sold off, separated forever from their families. They could only pass down their history verbally to know where they once belonged. I was the only one pointing that out. Its described quite well in Alex Haley's "Roots."

    Obama handled it and the other racist insults with aplomb. He stayed above the fray, careful to conceal his thoughts, as if he really didn't give a [email protected] about them because he knew who he was, and having made it to POTUS, had nothing to left to prove. He showed them up, a model of kindness and grace.

    So have to agree with you, Obama didn't deserve the vitriol he got from the right, and Trump is asking for it every day! Different game! Players have switched sides.

    Never had the satisfaction of feeling close to the action during Obama's terms. The media wasn't interested in covering the intrigues within his administration. What stood out were the bad boy Republicans. The media liked Obama. They don't like Trump.

    I'm gonna wait another year before passing judgement on the Trump. He's got an arresting style. I like following his every move. It reads like a novel. Pundits are reluctantly giving Trump some respect. The nation's vital signs are healthy. I tole y'all to give the boy a chance! He wants to be loved! :cryin:
  • 03-14-2018
    jimb100
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    I'm gonna wait another year before passing judgement on the Trump. He's got an arresting style. I like following his every move. It reads like a novel. Pundits are reluctantly giving Trump some respect. The nation's vital signs are healthy. I tole y'all to give the boy a chance! He wants to be loved! :cryin:

    Here I thought you were coming around!

    What do you think Trump is going to do in the next year that will raise his approval rating above 'deplorable'? The fact is, he can't do anything because he gave all the money we had to the 1% and big corporations.

    There is no money left in the system.

    Here's what will happen. The dems will take over the house and Trump will complain his hands are tied because the dems won't play ball with him.

    Then will you wake up?
  • 03-15-2018
    STRANA
    If Fred was on the Titanic he would be enjoying the free buffet and telling people in the life rafts to give it a chance
  • 03-15-2018
    Opus51569
    I see in jimb100’s quote that Fred is still peddling that “Trump* wants to be loved” nonsense.

    Trump* doesn’t want to be loved, Fred... he wants to be fellated. I would expect you to recognize the difference.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • 03-15-2018
    bradkay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    That was the final straw, following "moron" and a general personality conflict that mixed like oil and water. Tillerson was a reluctant player, probably from the day Trump told him to cut back the State Dept. He didn't know how to handle the political implications of the job, more complex than negotiating oil leases.

    Why would our Secretary of State telling the truth about a Russian crime be "the final straw" and a fire-able offense if Trump was not doing Putin's bidding? And then you claim that Tillerson doesn't know how to handle the political implications of teh job while defending Trump?

    It is time for you to stop defending the indefensible.
  • 03-15-2018
    .je
    Pursuant to this,
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...justin-trudeau
    Quote:

    Donald Trump admits making up 'facts' in trade meeting with Justin Trudeau

    The US president admitted he told Trudeau that America has a trade deficit with its neighbour when he “had no idea” if that was true.
    WTF?? You put up with this bull****? Who is running what? :out:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by The President
    You know why? Because we’re so stupid

  • 03-15-2018
    Local Hero
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by taodemon View Post
    Trump does a great job of "delegitimizing" his own presidency without anyone else trying to do it for him.


    • Recount - Recount of what? To prove Trump won the popular vote? That it was really millions of illegals that gave Hillary the popular win? I don't think anyone questions the mechanics of getting voted into the white house though the fact that it doesn't require the most votes has always been a little disconcerting.




    • Release the Taxes! - Have they been released?




    • Women's March - Women marching or not doesn't change the fact that he is a sexual predator. This is only one of many reasons why he is unfit but I'm not sure how it in of itself is an attempt to "delegitimize" him and not just an expression of outrage by women (understandably so) of someone of that character being voted into our highest office.




    • Intermingling Assets? - I can only imagine the outcry if there was a D next to his name. I'm sure he isn't allowing his position as president to influence his personal business dealings and that he isn't really making any business dealing anymore as that would be unethical.




    • Mentally Unstable/Unfit - No questions there.




    • Collusion - Book is still out, but there seems to be plenty of smoke there.


    There were 7+ mainly republican led investigations into Benghazi / emails that haven't sunk in for republicans or Trump either...

    I agree that Trump is a loose cannon who often shoots himself in the foot and then blames the guy next to him. He has done a lot wrong.

    That doesn't mean that all of the attacks against him have been justified. If I had more time and energy I would put something together that explains the mass hysteria better. It would be fun to map news stories on to the Kübler-Ross model with five stages of grief. But that type of project would be more fun on a youtube video with clips from CNN anchors crying, Rachel Maddow being smug and Brian Steltzner being a thumb.
  • 03-15-2018
    DaveWC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    I agree that Trump is a loose cannon who often shoots himself in the foot and then blames the guy next to him. He has done a lot wrong.

    That's really all that needs to be said, though I'd replace the word "often" with "daily" or "hourly". Trump has done a lot wrong. He also lies about everything, even minute details that are irrelevant to all but a narcissist. He deserves all of the criticism that he has received. That doesn't mean that every claim is correct. It also doesn't mean that everything that he's done wrong has been discovered. He's a mess, worst POTUS ever and is actively trying to improve his lot in life at the expense of the country & planet. His only concern is himself.
  • 03-15-2018
    CoffeeBean2
    I'm sure a Twitter rant is not far off...

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-orga...opstories.html
  • 03-15-2018
    nealric
    Looks like the Muller team is directly looking at the Trump organization:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/u...T.nav=top-news
  • 03-15-2018
    SystemShock
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    Looks like the Muller team is directly looking at the Trump organization:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/u...T.nav=top-news

    It's dangerous, though. This might make the Big Orange Dummy finally panic and fire Mueller, and/or fire and replace anyone in Justice he needs in order to have that carried out.

    See 'Saturday Night Massacre'. :eek:
    .
  • 03-15-2018
    kiwisimon
    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/13/59312...rump-and-putin

    This is interesting "ISIKOFF: There are a couple of sort of just additional points that are worth pointing out here. You know, Keith Schiller, who was Trump's bodyguard for years, has told Congress that somebody did offer to bring prostitutes to his hotel room in Moscow.

    CORN: To Trump's hotel room.

    ISIKOFF: Yeah, to Trump's hotel room in Moscow, and he brushed it off and said we don't do that sort of thing. Now, you know, Schiller's credibility as a alibi witness for Trump could be subject to question. If you go back to the interview that Stormy Daniels gave to In Touch Weekly before she was silenced under this hush agreement, she says Keith Schiller was actually the go-between between her and Donald Trump when they had their affair back in 2006, that whenever she wanted to get in touch with Trump, she went to Keith Schiller and he set up the liaisons in various hotel rooms".


    and "Also another aspect of the book that did get some attention is Trump was - the Miss Universe pageant grew out of meetings that Trump had with Aras Agalarov, the oligarch, his son, Emin Agalarov, the pop singer, and Rob Goldstone, the music publicist, in Las Vegas in June of 2013. And, as we report in the book, one place they went during their Las Vegas jaunt was this raunchy Las Vegas nightclub called The Act in which its regular performances included women simulating urinating on each other"

    the dots are very close to each other now. Stormy Daniels please #releasethepenispics
  • 03-15-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by STRANA View Post
    If Fred was on the Titanic he would be enjoying the free buffet and telling people in the life rafts to give it a chance

    You got your basement rigged out and well stocked for Armageddon, STRANA? I feel for ya.

    Be brave comrades! It ain't over yet! :cryin:
  • 03-15-2018
    Local Hero
    Do you guys have NYtimes subscriptions?
  • 03-15-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    Why would our Secretary of State telling the truth about a Russian crime be "the final straw" and a fire-able offense if Trump was not doing Putin's bidding? And then you claim that Tillerson doesn't know how to handle the political implications of teh job while defending Trump?

    It is time for you to stop defending the indefensible.

    Look, Im not "defending" Trump, just trying to explain where he's coming from. He fired Comey, and Tillerson, among others, because he couldn't work with them. He couldn't trust them and they couldn't trust him. Same thing takes place in every administration, private or government. Why is that so hard to accept? I don't find some hidden moral issue here. Trump would certainly be a hard guy to work for, no denying that! :D

    Tillerson departed from the boss and bad mouthed the Russians, like a good Eagle Scout. He probably knew it was contrary to Trump's policy of staying silent. Trump wants to keep open the possibility of detente with the Russians, so that parties can work out their differences without building bombs and preparing for war, in case you didn't notice.

    Keep your dogs leashed, apparatchik. It ain't over until we hear from Mueller.
  • 03-15-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Do you guys have NYtimes subscriptions?

    Not me. I used to read the "Evergreen Review." Terry Southern, writer of "Dr. Strangelove," was a regular contributor, along with Hunter Thompson and a few other independent minds with a distinct disrespect for authority. Only then, it was religious conservatives, not the least of which was the overcompensating closet gay guy, J. Edgar Hoover, looking for godless communists in the intellectual classes. Now the roles are reversed.

    That ain't good, champions of diversity and inclusiveness, really contradictory ideas from the start. The same intolerance the anti-war, sexual freedom, gay rights, women's rights, civil rights movements suffered, is now coming from the left. If you treat misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, male white racists with a modicum of civility, you could change their minds. Merciless hacking at them with insults only drives them deeper into their "ignorance." They came at you and elected Trump in protest. Now we're in a real pickle.
  • 03-15-2018
    Fredrico
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Opus51569 View Post
    I see in jimb100’s quote that Fred is still peddling that “Trump* wants to be loved” nonsense.

    Trump* doesn’t want to be loved, Fred... he wants to be fellated. I would expect you to recognize the difference.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    Thanks for making that subtile distinction, Opus! :thumbsup: :lol: I share your anxiety he may be getting close to the edge!

    He didn't tweet he was firing Rex, though. He merely tweeted he'd chosen Pompeo. So he hasn't quite lost it yet. :D