The war on terror wrecks the war on drugs.
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  1. #1
    Call me a Fred
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    The war on terror wrecks the war on drugs.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...3-1702,00.html

    It seems that getting rid of the Taliban and their anti-drug attitude has made heroin much more available.
    Mike

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...3-1702,00.html

    It seems that getting rid of the Taliban and their anti-drug attitude has made heroin much more available.
    Yea...opium has finally overtaken cocaine!
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  3. #3
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    thank gawd

    who wants to get high when you can get low?

    hey the CIA helped distribute Hashish in the 80's to help fund the Afghani Mujahadeen

    the blocks came stamped with Stamp out USSR Afghani Freedom Fighters logo
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

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  4. #4

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    drugs and weapons dealing are closely associated. i have always thought when we beat terror drug trafficking would suffer.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    drugs and weapons dealing are closely associated. i have always thought when we beat terror drug trafficking would suffer.
    If we legalized drugs then drug trafficking would suffer more.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones II
    If we legalized drugs then drug trafficking would suffer more.
    it's not about drugs: those criminals would do something else. my point is terror and crime go hand in hand. they are different people coming from different sides but they join hands really easy.
    legalizing drugs is morally questionable and i really don't know how that would play out. heroin on the supermarket? cocaine in liquor stores? what about importing the stuff to the US? where would the importers buy legally the stuff? unless you legalize it globally it's impossible. then why legalize? like i said you would not stop crime.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    it's not about drugs: those criminals would do something else. my point is terror and crime go hand in hand. they are different people coming from different sides but they join hands really easy.
    legalizing drugs is morally questionable and i really don't know how that would play out. heroin on the supermarket? cocaine in liquor stores? what about importing the stuff to the US? where would the importers buy legally the stuff? unless you legalize it globally it's impossible. then why legalize? like i said you would not stop crime.
    Maybe, but having drugs illegal just insures that the black market will take care of the demand rather than a legitimate vendor. It doesn't stop people from taking them. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  8. #8
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    oh you and your 7th grade

    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones II
    Maybe, but having drugs illegal just insures that the black market will take care of the demand rather than a legitimate vendor. It doesn't stop people from taking them. Where there is a demand there will be a supply.
    economics

    amazing their are people making policy that must have missed that lesson
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    economics

    amazing their are people making policy that must have missed that lesson
    You think there might be a political advatage to having them remain illegal? Machiavelli must be smiling from his grave.

    Interesting article here:

    http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3042936.html


    Since 1914, American drug control efforts have ebbed and peaked. However, a sea change occurred in 1972 when Richard Nixon saw political advantage in telling the citizenry that a war against drugs was necessary. The federal budget for the war was roughly $101 million that year. Presently, it is around $20 billion a year. By comparison, the average monthly Social Security retirement check in 1972 was $177. Presently, the payment averages slightly more than $900 a month. If, however, Social Security benefits had increased at the same rate as drug war spending, today’s check would be around $30,000 a month. The annual cost of the drug war exceeds $40 billion a year when state and local costs are added to federal costs.


    The magnitude of increase and paucity of positive results have recently begun to cause concern among some of the leading academic supporters of the drug war. A major focus of government strategy has been to reduce foreign production of illegal drugs. Yet a dozen years after the U.S. Congress proclaimed that we would have a drug-free America by 1995 (the United Nations has made an even more grandiose claim for a drug-free world), opium production has doubled in Southeast Asia and cocaine crops have increased by a third in Central and South America. Opium production has also greatly increased in liberated Afghanistan.


    Periodic government announcements of epidemic increases in the use of “designer drugs” such as methamphetamines and ecstasy are intended to mobilize more public support for the drug war. What the anti-drug propaganda really illustrates, however, is the futility of attempts by the United States to reduce world drug production since domestically produced drugs are quickly substituted. The government has been forced to concede that, despite intensive efforts at interdiction, around 90 percent of the illegal drugs that arrive in this country are undetected.


    The United States, as well as most of the world, is awash in illegal drugs, the violence of the illegal drug black market, and unprecedented police and political corruption resulting from the extreme markup caused by the prohibition of cheaply produced chemical substances.
    Last edited by Bocephus Jones II; 08-27-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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  10. #10
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    When you consider that alcohol is legal and pot is not, when, to me, alcohol is far more destructive, then you have to consider why. The only thing I can come up with is $$$.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones II
    Maybe, but having drugs illegal just insures that the black market will take care of the demand rather than a legitimate vendor. It doesn't stop people from taking them.
    What starts people to take them?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Starck
    What starts people to take them?
    What starts people to drinking? Smoking? Caffeine?
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  13. #13
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    as the father of a 4 year old I can say without equivocation

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRoebuck
    What starts people to drinking? Smoking? Caffeine?
    that spinning around in circles is the gateway drug

    from my own past I could say

    spinning around led me to the playground merry-go round at high speed

    which lead to hyperventilation followed by a bear hug from your pal

    which lead to being the star pupil so you got the right to run the ditto machine (kids today have no idea what they are missing)

    long before I knew what cigarettes, alcohol, or whatever

    humans have an innate desire to mess with consciousness
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Starck
    What starts people to take them?
    dunno. it's personal. fun? boredom? anxiety? i take it as my right to take whatever i decide to. i will decide over the moral issues and not the state. morality should not be regulated by the state. the state should decide over matters of property only.
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  15. #15
    the_rydster
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    humans have an innate desire to mess with consciousness
    Indeed.

    Perhaps one reason why more primitive cultures seemed to succumb to drugs and alcohol with the arrival of Europeans?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_rydster
    Indeed.

    Perhaps one reason why more primitive cultures seemed to succumb to drugs and alcohol with the arrival of Europeans?
    they used to do their own stuff to get high, religiously etc.. but alcohol seems to be much stronger.
    otoh there are some "primitive" substances that have westerns succumb pretty fastpium, mushrooms, hash, cocaine..

    i prefer scotch over all those things. actually right now i prefer to stay sober.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    it's not about drugs: those criminals would do something else. my point is terror and crime go hand in hand. they are different people coming from different sides but they join hands really easy.
    legalizing drugs is morally questionable and i really don't know how that would play out. heroin on the supermarket? cocaine in liquor stores? what about importing the stuff to the US? where would the importers buy legally the stuff? unless you legalize it globally it's impossible. then why legalize? like i said you would not stop crime.
    I don't see how anyone who has considered the effect of the drug war on African-American males could possibly consider legalization more morally problematic than prohibition. And as Milton Friedman noted, violent crime and prohibition go hand-in-hand.

    As with alcohol and nicotine, legalization quite likely would result in distribution of the drugs in milder dosages and in a controlled manner. While some drugs might have to be imported, it's also possible that the most advanced agircultural nation in the world could grow its own, making global legalization unnecessary. The tax benefits would be enormous, perhaps even enough to retire the Bush spendthrift deficit. A reduction in violent crime might occur. And the damage that the war on drugs has done to the Constitution and African Americans would be arrested. Legalization has a lot going for it, even on the morality front.
    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus .--Mark Twain

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Starck
    What starts people to take them?
    They make you feel good?
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  19. #19
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    same thing that makes people start gambling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones II
    They make you feel good?
    those releases of lovely little brain chemicals that make you feel better, more alive than the day to day
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    cocaine in liquor stores?
    If you're going to write something that ironic don't bury it in the middle of your paragraph!

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by harlond
    I don't see how anyone who has considered the effect of the drug war on African-American males could possibly consider legalization more morally problematic than prohibition. And as Milton Friedman noted, violent crime and prohibition go hand-in-hand.

    As with alcohol and nicotine, legalization quite likely would result in distribution of the drugs in milder dosages and in a controlled manner. While some drugs might have to be imported, it's also possible that the most advanced agircultural nation in the world could grow its own, making global legalization unnecessary. The tax benefits would be enormous, perhaps even enough to retire the Bush spendthrift deficit. A reduction in violent crime might occur. And the damage that the war on drugs has done to the Constitution and African Americans would be arrested. Legalization has a lot going for it, even on the morality front.
    distribution? for free? like comunism or something? are you on drugs? it would/will be sold, taxes high w/ no limited whatsoever.
    would that solve the african american male problem?
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    If you're going to write something that ironic don't bury it in the middle of your paragraph!
    i want a bottle of scotch and a pound of bolivian. what brand? "speedy juan"...
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    distribution? for free? like comunism or something?
    Nothing in the term "distribution" nor in my post is at all suggestive of the consequences you mention. In my neck of the woods, a "distributor" is someone who sells a product, often at wholesale.
    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    are you on drugs?
    I suspect you're kidding, but if not, the answer is no, and I'm not the one who raised the prospect of free distribution and communism.
    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    it would/will be sold, taxes high w/ no limited whatsoever.
    I'm not sure what you're saying. I would expect newly legalized drugs to be sold (relatively inexpensively) and taxed (heavily) in a manner similar to already-legalized drugs. I don't understand "w/ no limited whatsoever." If you mean that buyers would be able to buy more or less unlimited quantities, just as they now can with alcohol and cigarettes, I suppose that would depend on the regulations established by legislatures.
    Quote Originally Posted by colker1
    would that solve the african american male problem?
    It would for many of those that otherwise would be murdered as a result of the drug-related violence that goes hand-in-hand with prohibition.
    You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus .--Mark Twain

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by harlond
    Nothing in the term "distribution" nor in my post is at all suggestive of the consequences you mention. In my neck of the woods, a "distributor" is someone who sells a product, often at wholesale.
    I suspect you're kidding, but if not, the answer is no, and I'm not the one who raised the prospect of free distribution and communism.
    I'm not sure what you're saying. I would expect newly legalized drugs to be sold (relatively inexpensively) and taxed (heavily) in a manner similar to already-legalized drugs. I don't understand "w/ no limited whatsoever." If you mean that buyers would be able to buy more or less unlimited quantities, just as they now can with alcohol and cigarettes, I suppose that would depend on the regulations established by legislatures.
    It would for many of those that otherwise would be murdered as a result of the drug-related violence that goes hand-in-hand with prohibition.
    "As with alcohol and nicotine, legalization quite likely would result in distribution of the drugs in milder dosages and in a controlled manner. While some drugs might have to be imported, it's also possible that the most advanced agircultural nation in the world could grow its own, making global legalization unnecessary."- your words.

    once it's legalized it will be sold like alcohol. we will have people dying on heroine and cocaine overdose on a large scale.
    i stand on no prohibition whatsoever. it's ineffective. it supports corruption. it's a moral prohibition and as such begs for defiance and transgression. drugs are too dangerous and destructive to become a symbol of defiance. i rather see it as a symbol of conformity.. like alcohol.
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  25. #25
    the_rydster
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlond
    I would expect newly legalized drugs to be sold (relatively inexpensively) and taxed (heavily) in a manner similar to already-legalized drugs.
    Why would the addict/consumer bother buying taxed drugs, when they are already available in such unlimited quantities without the tax add on?

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