Could testosterone shot alone explain ability for stage 17 feat
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  1. #1
    MLE
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    Could testosterone shot alone explain ability for stage 17 feat

    From what I gather, since Landis did not fail prior to stage 17, he would have had to have used a shot or patch after stage 16. Could that even explain his feat on 17? Does it work that good? L 'Equipe said that alone could not account for his performance (they still slammed him, naturally). From the paper:

    L'Equipe wrote that testosterone alone could not explain how Landis had staged a remarkable comeback in the race's last mountain stage, a day after struggling badly in the French Alps.

    "Testosterone is not a stimulant with immediate effects, even if it has been used in the search for such results in fight sports," the newspaper wrote. "It does not give an immediate boost but has a long-term effect on the power of the engine."

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    My theory is that his wife told him that if he didn't come back from his bonk and win that he wouldn't be getting any from her for a while. That'd be explanation enough for me, and it would maybe explain the elevated testosterone levels too, can't have one's manhood challenged on so many levels without doing something about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MLE
    From what I gather, since Landis did not fail prior to stage 17, he would have had to have used a shot or patch after stage 16. Could that even explain his feat on 17? Does it work that good? L 'Equipe said that alone could not account for his performance (they still slammed him, naturally). From the paper:

    L'Equipe wrote that testosterone alone could not explain how Landis had staged a remarkable comeback in the race's last mountain stage, a day after struggling badly in the French Alps.

    "Testosterone is not a stimulant with immediate effects, even if it has been used in the search for such results in fight sports," the newspaper wrote. "It does not give an immediate boost but has a long-term effect on the power of the engine."

    The patch doesn't spike the T:E ratio that much from what I've read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MLE
    From what I gather, since Landis did not fail prior to stage 17, he would have had to have used a shot or patch after stage 16. Could that even explain his feat on 17? Does it work that good? L 'Equipe said that alone could not account for his performance (they still slammed him, naturally). From the paper:

    L'Equipe wrote that testosterone alone could not explain how Landis had staged a remarkable comeback in the race's last mountain stage, a day after struggling badly in the French Alps.

    "Testosterone is not a stimulant with immediate effects, even if it has been used in the search for such results in fight sports," the newspaper wrote. "It does not give an immediate boost but has a long-term effect on the power of the engine."
    Feat? Landis' win on stage 17 was no more remarkable than what any of the other 19 stage winners accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James OCLV
    Feat? Landis' win on stage 17 was no more remarkable than what any of the other 19 stage winners accomplished.

    I disagree 100%.


    A shot of test isn't going to make you a superhero overnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatball
    I disagree 100%.


    A shot of test isn't going to make you a superhero overnight.
    What was so remarkable other than the fact that he was a (at that moment) former GC contender?

    Has he been the only rider solo win a stage by ~6 minutes?

    Drawing the conclusion that he "must have doped" based on his stage 17 performance is irrational.... Based on that rational, anyone who has solo won a stage must have been doping, too.

    What was remarkable about the stage was the comeback, and the fact that the rest of the GC let him get away.

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    Do NOT feed the troll!

  8. #8
    MLE
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    Quote Originally Posted by James OCLV
    Feat? Landis' win on stage 17 was no more remarkable than what any of the other 19 stage winners accomplished.
    Umm, yeah Thankyou for your input on the topic and intelligent reply.

  9. #9
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    My team doctor says No way

    That it takes several days for testosterone to help in recovery and does not instantly give you more power.

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    This is probably old news, but what I heard on ESPN all of last night regarding the test reports is that his testostorone levels were normal, but the whatever thingy in the denominator for the test was low, leading to the higher than 4:1 ratio. Anyone have more info on this?

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    denominator= "epe"testosterone.

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    disregard my question....I now see this is discussed in another thread...amazing how the media blantantly ran with this without half the facts and even if Floyd is innocent, his reputation is done

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    I agree

    with the OCLV guy: dusting the entire peloton in the first 20k, and then riding solo for 150k through multiple 3,000m alpine passes is pretty much the same as riding at the back of the peleton on a flat stage, and sprinting the final 200meters. all stage wins really are equal...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bauerb
    with the OCLV guy: dusting the entire peloton in the first 20k, and then riding solo for 150k through multiple 3,000m alpine passes is pretty much the same as riding at the back of the peleton on a flat stage, and sprinting the final 200meters. all stage wins really are equal...

    High five. LOL

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    well

    Someone posted on here a statement from an "expert" doctor who said that taking testosterone wouldn't have any effect on his stage 17 performance---it woudl help in training thouigh but not a one day boost. In addition it is important to note that Floyd didn't have a huge day--he simply had a good day for him, but one that was well within his normal output. The Powertap wattage readings from that day showed that he didn't do anything that he hasn't done before in a race or training---i tend to believe that he had a good day while most of the GC guys were tired.

    His levels of testosterone were actually below normal, it's just that his epitestosterone was extrelely low,,which according to "experts" could have been caused by the cortizone injections.
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    128cyclist

    I am a double testicular cancer survivor who has been taking Depo Testosterone injections for 17 years not by choice but because I have to. I will tell you with out a doubt taking a shot in the morning does not give me instant change in energy or recovery. As a matter of fact it takes 3 days before I get any results. If I don't take my shot in time it takes at least three days before I have the same riding energy and often as normal. I can't ride up towards my max heart rate or higher cadence. Personally I don't know why anybody would do it the mood swings are F-cked I would wish this on anybody.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbykr
    The Powertap wattage readings from that day showed that he didn't do anything that he hasn't done before in a race or training
    Not saying it happened but isn't it possible they under-reported his power numbers to help cover things up? Maybe the people from Saris Cycling Group/CycleOps were in on it too?

  18. #18
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    Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by bauerb
    with the OCLV guy: dusting the entire peloton in the first 20k, and then riding solo for 150k through multiple 3,000m alpine passes is pretty much the same as riding at the back of the peleton on a flat stage, and sprinting the final 200meters. all stage wins really are equal...
    You don't let yourself get confused by the facts. He recorded his power output. It was a good day for him, but nothing spectacular. He was within his limits, the whole time. What was spectacular is the complete lack of a chase by his competitors. The stage was a gift for Landis.
    100% is too much

  19. #19
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    And according to some doping experts, no
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ftE&refer=home
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  20. #20
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    It would be interesting to know the science better ...

    ... I have not seen many details about the test and if it really can distinguish between natural and doped hormones.

    I've seen cases where Armstrong got clipped or something else set him off, and this look like an enraged animal came over his face and he smoked up the next mountain and makes everyone else look like they were standing still. I've been convinced for a while that, especially when angry, Armstrong probably COULD induce his body to produce a big surge of hormones that might be part of his performance.

    I would not be at all surprised that natural surges of hormones, not just testosterone, are a big part of many stunning performances. In which case, I would expect them to show up as abnormal, but natural, blood chemistry. And I think it would be a sad day indeed if athletes were disqualified, and smeared as dopers, if this happens naturally in their greatest triumphs.

    The fight-or-flight response is well known to be hormone-based (largely adrenaline), we've all experienced that, and it is induced by a psycological response to dangers. Why not other responses?

    Plus, anybody who wins gets to pee in the cup and probably gets blood drawn as well ... you gotta know you'll be caught if you dope.

    I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt for now.

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